Game 73 Pacers vs Sacramento 7:00pm

[Wizop]

But will need to trade Buddy to let Haliburton and younger guys take over.

The assumption here is that Buddy will be fine off the bench and it's Brogdon who needs to be moved as Hali defers to him too much.

[LightTheBeam]

But will need to trade Buddy to let Haliburton and younger guys take over.

The assumption here is that Buddy will be fine off the bench and it's Brogdon who needs to be moved as Hali defers to him too much.

Kings fans thought that about Buddy as well. Somehow he finds 20-30mpg and continues to make the same mistakes over and over. That was probably the only frustrating thing about Hali's game as a Kings fan. IMO its something that he needs to change regardless of the players around him because long term he will have to be with players who can score as well.

Either way, rooting for the Pacers next season! Going to be an exciting team and I'm betting they make the playoffs!

[Scoot McGroot]

But will need to trade Buddy to let Haliburton and younger guys take over.

The assumption here is that Buddy will be fine off the bench and it's Brogdon who needs to be moved as Hali defers to him too much.

Kings fans thought that about Buddy as well. Somehow he finds 20-30mpg and continues to make the same mistakes over and over. That was probably the only frustrating thing about Hali's game as a Kings fan. IMO its something that he needs to change regardless of the players around him because long term he will have to be with players who can score as well.

Either way, rooting for the Pacers next season! Going to be an exciting team and I'm betting they make the playoffs!

Oh, I expected Buddy to be a pain. His willingness to shoot inside the arc and his passing ability have impressed me. His defense is still BEYOND weak

I either hope he settles into being a 6th man gunner next to a McConnell, or he plays into enough value to get moved this offseason. Either way, he’s been solid as a tank commander this year. He’s a good vet and he’s trying hard. And his usable long range shooting has opened the floor for guys like Jackson, Goga, and Taylor to operate and develop. If we keep him, It won’t be the worst thing.

[LightTheBeam]

The assumption here is that Buddy will be fine off the bench and it's Brogdon who needs to be moved as Hali defers to him too much.

Kings fans thought that about Buddy as well. Somehow he finds 20-30mpg and continues to make the same mistakes over and over. That was probably the only frustrating thing about Hali's game as a Kings fan. IMO its something that he needs to change regardless of the players around him because long term he will have to be with players who can score as well.

Either way, rooting for the Pacers next season! Going to be an exciting team and I'm betting they make the playoffs!

Oh, I expected Buddy to be a pain. His willingness to shoot inside the arc and his passing ability have impressed me. His defense is still BEYOND weak

I either hope he settles into being a 6th man gunner next to a McConnell, or he plays into enough value to get moved this offseason. Either way, he’s been solid as a tank commander this year. He’s a good vet and he’s trying hard. And his usable long range shooting has opened the floor for guys like Jackson, Goga, and Taylor to operate and develop. If we keep him, It won’t be the worst thing.

For the record, Buddy was my favorite player when he got to Sac. Took me about 2 years to give up on him. His effort and IQ just aren't there on a nightly basis. 1 night comes out and lights up the world, then has 3 games where everything bad he does overwhelms any benefit of him spreading the floor.

I heard him flat out lie after the game saying that he now has more freedom in Indiana, and Sac made him a stand in the corner guy. That was his exact issue, we wanted him to be a stand in the corner guy (the role he would actually flourish at) but he doesn't want to be Klay, he wants to be Steph. He would consistently waive off Fox/Hali and just take it upon himself to hoist a bad shot or turn it over. I've still maintained that on a team with strong leadership that forced him into that role he would be a positive. But he should never dribble, either pass or shoot.

[Wizop]

But he should never dribble, either pass or shoot.

the sample size is small, but he's been able to drive to the hoop here in Indy.

I'm a little confused by your saying he was lying when he said he had more freedom here. you then went on to say the Kings wanted him to just stand in the corner. he's doing more than that here so wasn't he being truthful? I get that it may not be all coaches though. there's an article on fivethirtyeight discussing just this. I've posted the link before but in case you didn't see it

https://fivethirtyeight.com/features/can-a-one-dimensional-player-change-his-game-with-a-new-team-ask-buddy-hield/

[LightTheBeam]

But he should never dribble, either pass or shoot.

the sample size is small, but he's been able to drive to the hoop here in Indy.

I'm a little confused by your saying he was lying when he said he had more freedom here. you then went on to say the Kings wanted him to just stand in the corner. he's doing more than that here so wasn't he being truthful? I get that it may not be all coaches though. there's an article on fivethirtyeight discussing just this. I've posted the link before but in case you didn't see it

https://fivethirtyeight.com/features/can-a-one-dimensional-player-change-his-game-with-a-new-team-ask-buddy-hield/

Maybe I mispoke. Kings fans wanted him to do that. But he never did. And again this was his biggest problem, wanting a bigger role than he should have. Go back and watch any film and show me Buddy standing in a corner. He's always dribbled the ball up the court, forced it one on one, or come off screens to get the ball.

Just look at his usage. It hasn't changed since he got the Indiana. In fact he had 3 years in Sac where his usage was between 24-27. His touches per game are the same as well. Only thing that has changed is that hes a more willing passer in Indy than he was in Sac.

Now compare that usage to Joe Harris or Duncan Robinson who are true stand in the corner type of guy.

It was a flat out lie.

[Scoot McGroot]

But he should never dribble, either pass or shoot.

the sample size is small, but he's been able to drive to the hoop here in Indy.

I'm a little confused by your saying he was lying when he said he had more freedom here. you then went on to say the Kings wanted him to just stand in the corner. he's doing more than that here so wasn't he being truthful? I get that it may not be all coaches though. there's an article on fivethirtyeight discussing just this. I've posted the link before but in case you didn't see it

https://fivethirtyeight.com/features/can-a-one-dimensional-player-change-his-game-with-a-new-team-ask-buddy-hield/

Maybe I mispoke. Kings fans wanted him to do that. But he never did. And again this was his biggest problem, wanting a bigger role than he should have. Go back and watch any film and show me Buddy standing in a corner. He's always dribbled the ball up the court, forced it one on one, or come off screens to get the ball.

Just look at his usage. It hasn't changed since he got the Indiana. In fact he had 3 years in Sac where his usage was between 24-27. His touches per game are the same as well. Only thing that has changed is that hes a more willing passer in Indy than he was in Sac.

Now compare that usage to Joe Harris or Duncan Robinson who are true stand in the corner type of guy.

It was a flat out lie.

I don’t know. He’s taking more than double the amount of shots inside the arc in Indiana than he was in Sacramento. He’s taking more 2 pt shots than he has in almost 4 seasons. But, he’s also taking as many or more corner 3’s in Indy than he ever has in his career (by percentage of 3 point attempts).

Based on watching him earlier this year and now in Indy, he’s definitely being allowed and encouraged to do more now. However, to be totally fair, that’s also probably somewhat helping the tank in Indy.

Otherwise, his usage is essentially the same in indy than it was in Sacramento. He definitely has shown to be a willing and talented passer in Indy as a secondary or tertiary connector.

[Wizop]

Just look at his usage. It hasn't changed since he got the Indiana. In fact he had 3 years in Sac where his usage was between 24-27. His touches per game are the same as well. Only thing that has changed is that hes a more willing passer in Indy than he was in Sac.

just look at his assists. if I remember right, they were under 2 in Sacramento and over 5 here. we can certainly debate whether that's because he has more freedom here or because he has greater confidence in our shooters than your shooters.

[LightTheBeam]

Just look at his usage. It hasn't changed since he got the Indiana. In fact he had 3 years in Sac where his usage was between 24-27. His touches per game are the same as well. Only thing that has changed is that hes a more willing passer in Indy than he was in Sac.

just look at his assists. if I remember right, they were under 2 in Sacramento and over 5 here. we can certainly debate whether that's because he has more freedom here or because he has greater confidence in our shooters than your shooters.

I think its more so that he was checked out in Sacramento. We have evidence going back not to far where his assists were close to 4 per game. This passed year he just didn't care to play defense or be a team player. It was all about him and hitting his incentives.

Maybe he has more freedom in Indiana, that isn't the part i'm arguing. its that he was a stand in the corner guy in Sacramento. That part is the lie.

[Pacers Forever]

Speaking on the Kings games I’ve seen their organization has been a tremendous disappointment for as much talent as they’ve had.

Watching Luke Walton he seemed to be able to pull defeats from the grasp of victory. I’m guessing the players were doing their own thing too much and not playing effective team basketball or coachable. Maybe the talent was not a good fit. IDK
Buddy was not a stand in the corner guy in games I viewed. He was either checked out and chucking bad shots hogging possessions or he was a fast break spot up lethal 3 shooter.

Hield has above average offensive scoring talent. Very good 3 point shot when he doesn’t force it. Has been active on the rebound attempts and sharing the ball. Doesn’t seem to be checking out and is staying moving on offense in our small sample size to date.

If the Pacers plan to keep him the biggest skills he has to refine is defense, shot selection, continuing to share the ball with teammates, very little 1 on 1. He’ll be playing with better and more consistent talent than what we’ve been putting out lately. Pacers definitely need his 3 pointers as they’ve been deficient in that category. If he thinks team first and knows his role he’s a very good scoring option.

It’s hard to believe the Pacers will move him, but if they keep Brogdon I can see Buddy traded. Brogdon, Haliburton, Hield equals too many players trying to dribble or drive in the offense with less ball movement. Not good.

[Wizop]

I heard him flat out lie after the game saying that he now has more freedom in Indiana

took several messages for me to get what you meant. at first I thought you were saying it was a lie to say he had freedom here. I now realize you meant he was lying when he said he lacked freedom with the Kings. I think the truth is the coaches of both teams wanted him to do more than just shoot, but our roster makes that either to do than yours did.

[LightTheBeam]

I heard him flat out lie after the game saying that he now has more freedom in Indiana

took several messages for me to get what you meant. at first I thought you were saying it was a lie to say he had freedom here. I now realize you meant he was lying when he said he lacked freedom with the Kings. I think the truth is the coaches of both teams wanted him to do more than just shoot, but our roster makes that either to do than yours did.

"I heard him flat out lie after the game saying that he now has more freedom in Indiana, and Sac made him a stand in the corner guy. That was his exact issue, we wanted him to be a stand in the corner guy (the role he would actually flourish at) but he doesn't want to be Klay, he wants to be Steph. He would consistently waive off Fox/Hali and just take it upon himself to hoist a bad shot or turn it over. I've still maintained that on a team with strong leadership that forced him into that role he would be a positive. But he should never dribble, either pass or shoot."

Just really strange that you would edit my quote. I repeated his quote and left that part in. But the entire basis of the paragraph had to do with him lying about being a stand in the corner guy in Sacramento.

I'm sorry for providing context into what he said, obviously the part about more freedom in Indiana sets up the portion about being a stand in the corner guy in sac. At least I thought that would be obvious.

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[Wizop]

Just really strange that you would edit my quote.

I always edit quotes. It's a habit that goes back 40 years when I first went online at CompuServe and we paid by the minute of connect time. I didn't mean to distort your message, but I always cut back to the minimum I think is necessary to provide context to my reply.