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2021 Draft Thread

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Re: 2021 Draft Thread 

Post#101 » by Moooose » Tue Jun 22, 2021 6:02 pm

8305 wrote:
Wizop wrote:Here is another scouting report. looks like Barnes is great on defense and passing but has little to no offense on his own. I don't think I'd trade up to get him.



This is the most in depth scouting report on Scotty Barnes I"ve watched. To be honest he scares me. He looks like he could be Jarred Jeffries or worse yet Julian Wright. This video linked to one for Moses Moody. He looks like a better prospect to me.


Not a fan of Barnes either. One of the most overrated prospects (well, at least for me) that I've seen in years. I don't really see why he gets compared to Siakam when he doesn't even play with at least half the intensity. People are looking at him like the next Draymond Green or the next Pascal Siakam, but I really think he's too far off.

Best passer in the draft? If you play point guard no matter what your height is, you gotta pass the ball. And the way he passes it is no Ben Simmons like. He still passes the ball like a power forward.

I've had the same feeling with Deyonta Davis before where everyone is wondering how he slipped too far in the draft. The draft coverage sounded like it was a crime to leave him waiting. Well now, guess we all know why.
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Re: 2021 Draft Thread 

Post#102 » by Topofthekey » Tue Jun 22, 2021 8:22 pm

Can't wait for the lottery results

Interesting situation that I find myself in, waiting for the lottery results not so much to see whether our own pick moves up, but rather which team's pick moves up, and potentially open up trade opportunities
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Re: 2021 Draft Thread 

Post#103 » by Tom White » Tue Jun 22, 2021 8:25 pm

Topofthekey wrote:Can't wait for the lottery results

Interesting situation that I find myself in, waiting for the lottery results not so much to see whether our own pick moves up, but rather which team's pick moves up, and potentially open up trade opportunities


That's an interesting way to think of it. Gives you more reason to pay attention to the over-all process.
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Re: 2021 Draft Thread 

Post#104 » by Pacers Forever » Wed Jun 23, 2021 12:11 am

:lol: I get out of touch sometimes with sports even though I am watching the playoffs. Had to look up that the draft lottery happens in 20 minutes
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Re: 2021 Draft Thread 

Post#105 » by Scoot McGroot » Wed Jun 23, 2021 12:48 am

No luck. 13th it is.
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Re: 2021 Draft Thread 

Post#106 » by Scoot McGroot » Wed Jun 23, 2021 12:52 am

The lowest team to jump into the top 4 this year was Toronto, who finished a full 7 games behind us in the East. In terms of luck of the draw, a couple more losses here and there would not have gotten us into the top 4 with draft luck.
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Re: 2021 Draft Thread 

Post#107 » by Wizop » Wed Jun 23, 2021 1:02 am

Have to wonder if Toronto suddenly feels differently about Lowry and FVV. Time to email my Toronto friend.

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Re: 2021 Draft Thread 

Post#108 » by Pacers Forever » Wed Jun 23, 2021 1:12 am

This lottery seems like it stayed mostly true to the worst teams getting the better picks. Only people who could complain are teams who had picks that could become another teams due to prior trades. ?
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Re: 2021 Draft Thread 

Post#109 » by Pacers Forever » Wed Jun 23, 2021 1:17 am

Wizop wrote:Have to wonder if Toronto suddenly feels differently about Lowry and FVV. Time to email my Toronto friend.

Sent from my phone.


So different as letting one of them walk or trade since top draft choices are guards ?

Or different as keeping both and adding a top draft player to the weakest starting lineup spot which would be a center I would guess ?
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Re: 2021 Draft Thread 

Post#110 » by Scoot McGroot » Wed Jun 23, 2021 1:39 am

Wizop wrote:Have to wonder if Toronto suddenly feels differently about Lowry and FVV. Time to email my Toronto friend.

Sent from my phone.


If I were them, I wouldn’t see them as conflicting at all. At his age, you can’t plan on Lowry being around more than 1-2 years. Could be a perfect succession plan if they end up with a guard, or maybe Mobley falls to them, which would be a perfect fit long-term at the 5.
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Re: 2021 Draft Thread 

Post#111 » by Tom White » Wed Jun 23, 2021 2:43 am

I guess the most logical thing to do now is to find out which draft prospect is the most injury prone. That is surely who the Pacers will be drafting. :lol:
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Re: 2021 Draft Thread 

Post#112 » by Wizop » Wed Jun 23, 2021 2:44 am

Here's the report from Toronto.
*******
There will be plenty of talk about flipping 4 for 2 and getting Mobley who is the perfect non-Cunningham fit for the Raptors. What would it cost to get the flip?? Next year's first and maybe more?? If it's ONLY two firsts for the switch, it'll be an instant deal for the Raptors since they'd expect to be giving up a middish 20's next year. And with Wood in Houston and the lack of talent in Houston meaning a multi-year rebuild, there's hope. If it also costs the Raptors somebody like Trent Jr. or Boucher, might STILL be worth it. There's SOME talk of Sengun being the pick if no deal is possible. Defence be damned. 


Now, assuming no Mobley and no Sengun, it appears the pick comes down to Suggs or Green. The Raptors really like Flynn and VanVleet, so it comes down to Lowry resigning to play out his career in T.O. or not. If it's a sign and trade for a middle big and stuff, then Suggs would be the preference. But if Lowry stays, which is about a one in four shot, then Green would be the pick. There IS some talk about that Barnes would fit into the Raptor defence and that he could be taught to shoot, but I'd be surprised if the draft goes Cunningham-Mobley-Green/Suggs-Barnes. REALLY surprised.


The one remaining name is Kuminga. He's Green-like or Green-Lite, can't honestly say which. I only saw three Ignite games and he didn't look NBA-ready to me. But he DOES have a high ceiling. 


My guess, Ujiri gets the trade done for Mobley. Next year's first and a pick swap in 23. Jalen Harris might get attached. With the Raptors the faves to get Ishmael Wainwright who's the wing from France and Trent Jr. as shooting guards to go with VanVleet, Flynn and HOPEFULLY Lowry, there's the five-man guard group right there. Watson and Bembry fill out the backcourt. So, Harris, who had some decent games (including 31 points in one) down the stretch, would be a lottery ticket addition for Houston. 


Second round picks hopefully brings them Herb Jones to start his pro life in the G League. The second one will be a developmental big to go with Gillespie.


Ujiri would then sign Birch into the empty cap space economically as possible and then it's the Lowry Decision time. I expect Lowry to end up in Philly and it might be as little as Simmons straight up. Philly has to explode things there and Simmons' value ranges some where between McCollum to Lowry. Lowry wants a 60 million buck retirement package and if he and the Sixers would go with 4x15, there would be other options. 3x20 might be the sweet spot. Might be all Toronto can afford. Depends on Boucher and whether he gets traded for draft picks. The Raptors will concentrate on bigs coming back. And with Siakam being late to the season come fall, a solid backup is really vital. One can dream of one of the thug Morris twins or maybe Thaddeus Young in a multi-team Lowry deal. 


Lastly, we will have Bjorkgren to the right of Nurse next year (he's already assisting on the Canada National team for the qualifying tournament starting next week). Another TWO assistants will still be needed. If Stotts doesn't get a HC gig, you might find him spending a year in T.O. to study Nurse's D. But YOU guys seem to have him in the hairs given that he's 'local.' 


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Re: 2021 Draft Thread 

Post#113 » by Scoot McGroot » Wed Jun 23, 2021 2:49 am

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Re: 2021 Draft Thread 

Post#114 » by Topofthekey » Wed Jun 23, 2021 10:14 am

Raptors moved up into the top 4

That could have been us, if Bjorkgren hadn't insisted on playing Sabonis and Brogdon 40 minutes a game all season

I said that Raptors were doing a great stealth tank job, and they've now been rewarded for it
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Re: 2021 Draft Thread 

Post#115 » by Scoot McGroot » Wed Jun 23, 2021 2:52 pm

Topofthekey wrote:Raptors moved up into the top 4

That could have been us, if Bjorkgren hadn't insisted on playing Sabonis and Brogdon 40 minutes a game all season

I said that Raptors were doing a great stealth tank job, and they've now been rewarded for it



We had 7 more wins than Toronto. We weren’t exactly close, or easily in range there. As for Toronto, call it a stealth tank job if you want, but they played a full season of road games, and had a massive Covid outbreak through their locker room that got them there, as well as Siakam playing through a severe shoulder injury.

If you wanted to end up in that 7th spot (and jump to 4), you would’ve had to tank the whole season. From Warren’s injury on. That just likely wasn’t realistic. Brogdon, Sabonis, Turner, and Oladipo/Levert were just too much talent to tank that bad and that hard. And even then, we should have absolutely not played Brogdon and Sabonis so many minute all year. But if we had limited them, might we have seen Sumner and Goga start to break out much earlier in the season and still win some games we might’ve had to lose?
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Re: 2021 Draft Thread 

Post#116 » by Scoot McGroot » Wed Jun 23, 2021 3:07 pm

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Re: 2021 Draft Thread 

Post#117 » by Wizop » Wed Jun 23, 2021 3:15 pm

We wee closer to climbing to the 4/5 slot than falling far enough to have a serious number of ping pong balls. Give me Tuner. LeVert, and Dan Burke in that play-in game and we could still be playing.
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Re: 2021 Draft Thread 

Post#118 » by Tom White » Wed Jun 23, 2021 3:34 pm

All I want out of this off season is a center who can do what Deandre Ayton does, and a PG who can do what Trae Young does.

Do you think that is asking too much? :lol: :biggrin:

Seriously though, I am so tired of a team that is so "earth bound", slow and uncreative it is hard to put into words.
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Re: 2021 Draft Thread 

Post#119 » by Topofthekey » Wed Jun 23, 2021 4:25 pm

Scoot McGroot wrote:
Topofthekey wrote:Raptors moved up into the top 4

That could have been us, if Bjorkgren hadn't insisted on playing Sabonis and Brogdon 40 minutes a game all season

I said that Raptors were doing a great stealth tank job, and they've now been rewarded for it



We had 7 more wins than Toronto. We weren’t exactly close, or easily in range there. As for Toronto, call it a stealth tank job if you want, but they played a full season of road games, and had a massive Covid outbreak through their locker room that got them there, as well as Siakam playing through a severe shoulder injury.

If you wanted to end up in that 7th spot (and jump to 4), you would’ve had to tank the whole season. From Warren’s injury on. That just likely wasn’t realistic. Brogdon, Sabonis, Turner, and Oladipo/Levert were just too much talent to tank that bad and that hard. And even then, we should have absolutely not played Brogdon and Sabonis so many minute all year. But if we had limited them, might we have seen Sumner and Goga start to break out much earlier in the season and still win some games we might’ve had to lose?

I'm not arguing about the exact numbers, it's more about the methodology

I would be perfectly satisfied if Sumner and Goga broke out and helped the team won even more games

Bjorkgren should have played Domas and Brogdon about 30-33 mpg, and let younger players like Goga and Sumner absorb the backup minutes

Instead of playing Justin and TJ starter minutes, he should have allocated more playing time for Aaron and Stanley

If that methodology led us to 7 more loses, fine, maybe we get lucky in the lottery. And if that methodology led to Goga or Sumner or maybe even Aaron or Stanley breaking out, that's even better

But the chosen methodology was to play the 8 best players on the team as many minutes as possible. We're lucky that it didn't result in Domas or Brogdon coming down with significant injuries
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Re: 2021 Draft Thread 

Post#120 » by granger05 » Wed Jun 23, 2021 4:57 pm

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Didn't we trade for Jonathan Bender's #5 pick back in 1999? I know Toronto made the pick, but I thought that was made for us. Looking at the transactions page on his bball reference page, it looks like he was drafted on June 30th and traded to us on August 1st, but I thought that was just related to transaction rules and he was always our pick?

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