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Wizop wrote:

JMaster5K wrote:Also Like Ulrich Comche

I've been reading about him too. when he declared someone suggested that meant he had a promise from some team.

Idk?… he’s from the NBA academy Africa. So, think? He can either declare at 18 as an international, or go to college? (like Benn did with the NBA academy MMexico to Arizona.). He could have a promise, but I’ve not heard it? (No reason that I would… lol)

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Pacers Free Agents by year and description


2024
James Johnson (UFA)
Doug McDermott (UFA)
Pascal Siakam (UFA)
Jalen Smith (PO)
Obi Toppin (RFA)
Oscar Tshiebwe (RFA)
Isaiah Wong (RFA)
Quenton Jackson (RFA)

2025
T.J. McConnell (UFA)
Myles Turner (UFA)
Isaiah Jackson (RFA)
Jarace Walker (TO)
Bennedict Mathurin (TO)
Ben Sheppard (TO)
Andrew Nembhard (TO)
Kendall Brown (TO)

2026
Bennedict Mathurin (RFA)
Jarace Walker (TO)
Ben Sheppard (TO)

2027
Aaron Nesmith (UFA)
Jarace Walker (RFA)
Ben Sheppard (RFA)

2028 none

2029
Tyrese Haliburton (UFA)

If anyone here is a draftnik,... who looks at the combine data? Apparently, the NBA has messed up the measurement data,.. with data from one player assigned to another (verified for at least 1 player at this point with several more that are suspect.),... and measurements that can't be possible on other players,... (almost all the players have lost .5 inch to 2.5 inch on standing reach, including those that were measured at the combine last year. - LOL)

NBA is scrubbing the data. It is down on their site,... so hopefully we get some good numbers in the next day or two?...

Edited: the 2024 combine measurements are back up now on NBA.com

https://www.nba.com/stats/draft/combine-strength-agility?SeasonYear=2024-25&dir=A&sort=MODIFIED_LANE_AGILITY_TIME

Wizop wrote:

Scoot McGroot wrote:I bet we see Bobi Klintman, DaRon Holmes, or Ryan Dunn associated with Indy a ton. And I imagine we would’ve considered them all around 19 anyway.

We were supposedly interested in Klintman before he withdrew last year. Dunn's defense would fit if his offense didn't keep in on the Ants - see K Brown.

I'm concentrating on college seniors given our success with Nembhard and Sheppard.

Finally getting a chance to watch some the season highlights on a few prospects,... I think I would put Kel'el Ware on the list? Yeah,.. his motor was in question a year ago,.. but his time at IU looks good. He moves better than I thought he would. He's got the feet to play the 4,... and equal length to Myles,... Better post up game than Myles,.. though not as good as Pascal,... as good a perimeter game as Myles. At least in the last year with IU, he seemed to rebound well?... Needs to work on his foul shooting and his passing and add some strength for the NBA, but otherwise has some skills.

If he drops a little, he might be able to back up both Pascal & Myles when he starts to earn minutes? (assuming that Stix leaves.) What do you guys think?.....

JMaster5K wrote:I think I would put Kel'el Ware on the list? . . . What do you guys think?.....

He shouldn't drop to 36. Do you expect us to trade back into the first? I don't see how we'd do that unless we decide to shop Nembhard.

Wizop wrote:

JMaster5K wrote:I think I would put Kel'el Ware on the list? . . . What do you guys think?.....

He shouldn't drop to 36. Do you expect us to trade back into the first? I don't see how we'd do that unless we decide to shop Nembhard.

Idk?... even saying that above,.. I'm not as high on him as most. The guys that I usually follow have him between 25 - 30; the Hoopshype aggregate mock has him at 24 with his highest rank at 11 and his lowest in the second round. I'm feeling at the moment that he's likely to be somewhere between 25 - 35? which would mean only a small movement to get him. But, if he tests well athletically, that could all change? For now, he feels like he might be gettable without too much expense.

So, wasn't really considering moving a player to get him,... more like consolidating our 3 seconds & maybe a future 2nd into 2 better picks?.... And there could be a team or 2 that would be interested in Stix (and where he would want to go), but don't have the room to go make an offer? but could work a sign & trade? There's still a lot of options floating around at the moment?

JMaster5K wrote:

Wizop wrote:

JMaster5K wrote:I think I would put Kel'el Ware on the list? . . . What do you guys think?.....

He shouldn't drop to 36. Do you expect us to trade back into the first? I don't see how we'd do that unless we decide to shop Nembhard.

So, wasn't really considering moving a player to get him,... more like consolidating our 3 seconds & maybe a future 2nd into 2 better picks?.... And there could be a team or 2 that would be interested in Stix (and where he would want to go), but don't have the room to go make an offer? but could work a sign & trade? There's still a lot of options floating around at the moment?

Keep in mind that free agency is well after the draft. As is Stix's player option deadline. As such, there's no legal way to include a Jalen trade or sign and trade until after July 1, and it would be signs of illegal early talks to include draft picks in this year's draft (which will have happened before another team could legally talk to Jalen) in a trade for Jalen.

I would basically just keep him out of any trade possibilities at this year's draft.

JMaster5K wrote:

Wizop wrote:

Scoot McGroot wrote:I bet we see Bobi Klintman, DaRon Holmes, or Ryan Dunn associated with Indy a ton. And I imagine we would’ve considered them all around 19 anyway.

We were supposedly interested in Klintman before he withdrew last year. Dunn's defense would fit if his offense didn't keep in on the Ants - see K Brown.

I'm concentrating on college seniors given our success with Nembhard and Sheppard.

Finally getting a chance to watch some the season highlights on a few prospects,... I think I would put Kel'el Ware on the list? Yeah,.. his motor was in question a year ago,.. but his time at IU looks good. He moves better than I thought he would. He's got the feet to play the 4,... and equal length to Myles,... Better post up game than Myles,.. though not as good as Pascal,... as good a perimeter game as Myles. At least in the last year with IU, he seemed to rebound well?... Needs to work on his foul shooting and his passing and add some strength for the NBA, but otherwise has some skills.

If he drops a little, he might be able to back up both Pascal & Myles when he starts to earn minutes? (assuming that Stix leaves.) What do you guys think?.....

Yeah, I was mostly listing Payne/Klintman/Dunn as guys that are listed as defensive presences somewhere at the 3/4/5 and likely to be available in the neighborhood of 36. I just imagine that with the team making the 2nd round, and getting a ton of eyeballs, there's going to be a lot of comments of "well, if that team just adds a couple more solid defenders..." and we'll see anyone that can reportedly defend, or be projected to defend, mocked to Indy as a result. Right or wrong.

Scoot McGroot wrote:

JMaster5K wrote:

Wizop wrote:
We were supposedly interested in Klintman before he withdrew last year. Dunn's defense would fit if his offense didn't keep in on the Ants - see K Brown.

I'm concentrating on college seniors given our success with Nembhard and Sheppard.

Finally getting a chance to watch some the season highlights on a few prospects,... I think I would put Kel'el Ware on the list? Yeah,.. his motor was in question a year ago,.. but his time at IU looks good. He moves better than I thought he would. He's got the feet to play the 4,... and equal length to Myles,... Better post up game than Myles,.. though not as good as Pascal,... as good a perimeter game as Myles. At least in the last year with IU, he seemed to rebound well?... Needs to work on his foul shooting and his passing and add some strength for the NBA, but otherwise has some skills.

If he drops a little, he might be able to back up both Pascal & Myles when he starts to earn minutes? (assuming that Stix leaves.) What do you guys think?.....

Yeah, I was mostly listing Payne/Klintman/Dunn as guys that are listed as defensive presences somewhere at the 3/4/5 and likely to be available in the neighborhood of 36. I just imagine that with the team making the 2nd round, and getting a ton of eyeballs, there's going to be a lot of comments of "well, if that team just adds a couple more solid defenders..." and we'll see anyone that can reportedly defend, or be projected to defend, mocked to Indy as a result. Right or wrong.

I hear ya. ( along with ya. ) I was looking at bigs that could fill in a bit, but you don't really expect anything from for a year or two, that have the potential to actually develop into a good rotation player? potential starting teammates for Walker, etc..... defense first types.

I still keep hearing that this is a weak draft, but, as we said before, it feels like there are going to be some good players, key rotation pieces, with long careers from this draft? The athletic testing numbers from this combine certainly are not weak. much better than I expected based on the previews?...

JMaster5K wrote:

Scoot McGroot wrote:

JMaster5K wrote:
Finally getting a chance to watch some the season highlights on a few prospects,... I think I would put Kel'el Ware on the list? Yeah,.. his motor was in question a year ago,.. but his time at IU looks good. He moves better than I thought he would. He's got the feet to play the 4,... and equal length to Myles,... Better post up game than Myles,.. though not as good as Pascal,... as good a perimeter game as Myles. At least in the last year with IU, he seemed to rebound well?... Needs to work on his foul shooting and his passing and add some strength for the NBA, but otherwise has some skills.

If he drops a little, he might be able to back up both Pascal & Myles when he starts to earn minutes? (assuming that Stix leaves.) What do you guys think?.....

Yeah, I was mostly listing Payne/Klintman/Dunn as guys that are listed as defensive presences somewhere at the 3/4/5 and likely to be available in the neighborhood of 36. I just imagine that with the team making the 2nd round, and getting a ton of eyeballs, there's going to be a lot of comments of "well, if that team just adds a couple more solid defenders..." and we'll see anyone that can reportedly defend, or be projected to defend, mocked to Indy as a result. Right or wrong.

I hear ya. I was looking at bigs that could fill in a bit, but you don't really expect anything from for a year or two, that have the potential to actually develop into a good rotation player? potential starting teammates for Walker, etc..... defense first types.

I still keep hearing that this is a weak draft, but, as we said before, it feels like there are going to be some good players, key rotation pieces, with long careers from this draft? The athletic testing numbers from this combine certainly are not weak. much better than I expected based on the previews?...

Yeah. I think this draft mostly has severely flawed players in it. Like Dunn, for example. He's a tremendous defender, and would fit any team in the league in that manner. He'd be a shoo-in for a lotto pick in most drafts. But he's not just terrible offensively, he's allergic to even playing offense in any way, to a point where he seems destined to be signed to vet minimum deals and hits some years, and sits some years. Etc.

Scoot McGroot wrote:

JMaster5K wrote:

Scoot McGroot wrote:
Yeah, I was mostly listing Payne/Klintman/Dunn as guys that are listed as defensive presences somewhere at the 3/4/5 and likely to be available in the neighborhood of 36. I just imagine that with the team making the 2nd round, and getting a ton of eyeballs, there's going to be a lot of comments of "well, if that team just adds a couple more solid defenders..." and we'll see anyone that can reportedly defend, or be projected to defend, mocked to Indy as a result. Right or wrong.

I hear ya. I was looking at bigs that could fill in a bit, but you don't really expect anything from for a year or two, that have the potential to actually develop into a good rotation player? potential starting teammates for Walker, etc..... defense first types.

I still keep hearing that this is a weak draft, but, as we said before, it feels like there are going to be some good players, key rotation pieces, with long careers from this draft? The athletic testing numbers from this combine certainly are not weak. much better than I expected based on the previews?...

Yeah. I think this draft mostly has severely flawed players in it. Like Dunn, for example. He's a tremendous defender, and would fit any team in the league in that manner. He'd be a shoo-in for a lotto pick in most drafts. But he's not just terrible offensively, he's allergic to even playing offense in any way, to a point where he seems destined to be signed to vet minimum deals and hits some years, and sits some years. Etc.

Agreed,... or guys that for the most part are a couple of years away from contributing, if they can develop? Some that are a year away from even figuring out if they are flawed,...

I really don't know what we'd add to our roster in a perfect summer. I assume Doug is gone unless he's willing to take JJ's role.

Stix could of course force a replacement. too bad OT is only 6'8". would Valanciunas accept a lightly used backup role?

JMaster5K wrote:Agreed,... or guys that for the most part are a couple of years away from contributing, if they can develop? Some that are a year away from even figuring out if they are flawed,...

Or as one saying used to go.....He's a couple years away, from being a couple years away.

Scoot McGroot wrote:

JMaster5K wrote:

Wizop wrote:
He shouldn't drop to 36. Do you expect us to trade back into the first? I don't see how we'd do that unless we decide to shop Nembhard.

So, wasn't really considering moving a player to get him,... more like consolidating our 3 seconds & maybe a future 2nd into 2 better picks?.... And there could be a team or 2 that would be interested in Stix (and where he would want to go), but don't have the room to go make an offer? but could work a sign & trade? There's still a lot of options floating around at the moment?

Keep in mind that free agency is well after the draft. As is Stix's player option deadline. As such, there's no legal way to include a Jalen trade or sign and trade until after July 1, and it would be signs of illegal early talks to include draft picks in this year's draft (which will have happened before another team could legally talk to Jalen) in a trade for Jalen.

I would basically just keep him out of any trade possibilities at this year's draft.

Thanks Scoot. I had noticed that teams can start negotiating with their own free agents the day after the last game of the finals, but hadn't clued in to the fact that nothing can be formalized until July 6th. The CBA still says the moratorium is July 1 - 6, but effectively the Moratorium runs (for your own free agents) from the day after the last game until the 6th.

So yeah,.. any potential S&T with Stix couldn't happen until well after the draft (after July 6th). You are right that his option doesn't even come due until June 29th. So, yeah,... I was WAY out on the timing,... LOL =]

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Traded future draft picks
For those who care to follow the paths of where picks originated and so on.


Pacers incoming picks

2024 second round draft pick from Cleveland
Cleveland's 2024 2nd round pick (#49) to Indiana (via Indiana to Milwaukee to Memphis to L.A. Clippers) [Brooklyn-Cleveland-Houston-Indiana, 1/16/2021; Indiana-Milwaukee, 7/30/2021; Memphis-Milwaukee, 8/7/2021; Houston-L.A. Clippers-Memphis, 2/9/2023; Indiana-Philadelphia-San Antonio, 2/8/2024]

2024 second round draft pick from New Orleans
New Orleans' 2024 2nd round pick (#50) to Indiana [Indiana-New Orleans, 1/17/2024]

2024 second round draft pick from Toronto
Toronto's 2024 2nd round pick (#36) to Indiana (via Memphis to L.A. Clippers to Philadelphia) [Memphis-Toronto, 2/7/2019; Houston-L.A. Clippers-Memphis, 2/9/2023; L.A. Clippers-Oklahoma City-Philadelphia, 11/1/2023; Indiana-Philadelphia-San Antonio, 2/8/2024]

2025 second round draft pick from Charlotte
Charlotte's 2025 2nd round pick to Indiana protected for selections 31-55 (if this pick falls within its protected range and is therefore not conveyed, then Charlotte's obligation to Indiana will be extinguished) (via Golden State) [Charlotte-Golden State, 3/25/2021; Golden State-Indiana, 2/8/2024]

2025 second round draft pick from Miami
Miami's 2025 2nd round pick to Indiana protected for selections 38-59 or to Brooklyn protected for selections 31-37 (Miami's obligation to Indiana or Brooklyn will thereafter be extinguished) (via Indiana) [Indiana-Miami-Phoenix, 7/6/2019; Brooklyn-Indiana, 10/6/2021]

2027 second round draft pick from Utah
Utah's 2027 2nd round pick to Indiana; Indiana may convey this pick to Toronto (see Indiana Outgoing) (via Cleveland) [Cleveland-Utah, 11/27/2020; Cleveland-Indiana, 2/7/2022]

2028 second round draft pick from Dallas
Dallas' 2028 2nd round pick to Indiana; Indiana may convey this pick to Toronto (see Indiana Outgoing) (via Sacramento) [Dallas-Sacramento, 6/24/2022; Indiana-Sacramento, 7/6/2023]

2028 second round draft pick from Phoenix (effectively a swap, Indiana outgoing to New York)
Indiana will receive the more favorable of its 2028 2nd round pick and Phoenix's 2028 2nd round pick and New York will receive the less favorable of the two (via Indiana) [Indiana-Phoenix-Washington, 6/23/2023; Indiana-New York, 7/7/2023]

2029 second round draft pick from Portland
Portland's 2029 2nd round pick to Indiana (via Philadelphia) [Charlotte-Philadelphia-Portland-New York, 2/9/2023; Indiana-Philadelphia-San Antonio, 2/8/2024]

2029 second round draft pick from Washington (effectively a swap, Indiana outgoing to New York)
Indiana will receive the more favorable of its 2029 2nd round pick and Washington's 2029 2nd round pick and New York will receive the less favorable of the two (via Indiana) [Indiana-Phoenix-Washington, 6/23/2023; Indiana-New York, 7/7/2023]

2030 second round draft pick from Sacramento
Sacramento's 2030 2nd round pick to Indiana [Indiana-Sacramento, 7/6/2023]




Pacers outgoing picks

2024 first round draft pick to Toronto
Indiana's 2024 1st round pick (#19) to Toronto [Indiana-Toronto, 1/17/2024]

2024 second round draft pick to L.A. Clippers
Indiana's 2024 2nd round pick (#46) to L.A. Clippers (via Milwaukee to Memphis) [Indiana-Milwaukee, 7/30/2021; Memphis-Milwaukee, 8/7/2021; Houston-L.A. Clippers-Memphis, 2/9/2023]

2026 first round draft pick to Toronto
Indiana's 1st round pick to Toronto protected for selections 1-4 in 2026 and 1-4 in 2027; if Indiana has not conveyed a 1st round pick to Toronto by 2027, then Indiana will instead convey Utah's 2027 2nd round pick and Dallas' 2028 2nd round pick to Toronto [Indiana-Toronto, 1/17/2024]

2026 second round draft pick to Boston, Memphis, San Antonio or Minnesota
Memphis will receive the more favorable of (i) Boston's 2026 2nd round pick and (ii) the more favorable of Indiana's 2026 2nd round pick and Miami's 2026 2nd round pick and Boston will receive the less favorable of (i) and (ii); San Antonio will receive the more favorable of (i) its 2026 2nd round pick and (ii) the less favorable of the Indiana pick and the Miami pick and Minnesota will receive the less favorable of (i) and (ii); Memphis may convey the pick it receives to Houston and instead receive L.A. Clippers if more favorable (see Memphis Incoming) (via Miami to Indiana; via Milwaukee to Memphis; via Memphis' right to swap Indiana or Miami for Boston; via San Antonio's right to swap for Indiana or Miami; via Indiana to Minnesota) [Indiana-Miami-Phoenix, 7/6/2019; Indiana-Milwaukee, 7/30/2021; Memphis-Milwaukee, 8/7/2021; Indiana-San Antonio, 8/7/2021; Boston-Memphis, 9/15/2021; Indiana-Minnesota, 6/24/2022]

2027 second round draft pick to Oklahoma City, San Antonio or Miami
Oklahoma City will receive the three most favorable of its 2027 2nd round pick, Houston's 2027 2nd round pick, Indiana's 2027 2nd round pick and Miami's 2027 2nd round pick; San Antonio will receive the more favorable of (i) its 2027 2nd round pick and (ii) the least favorable of the Oklahoma City pick, the Houston pick, the Indiana pick and the Miami pick and Miami will receive the less favorable of (i) and (ii) (via Houston to Detroit to Oklahoma City; via Miami to Oklahoma City to Utah to San Antonio to Miami) [Detroit-Houston, 11/24/2020; Detroit-Oklahoma City, 3/13/2021; Indiana-Oklahoma City, 11/25/2020; Miami-Oklahoma City, 3/17/2021; Oklahoma City-Utah, 7/30/2021; Portland-San Antonio-Utah, 2/9/2022; Cleveland-Miami-San Antonio, 7/6/2023]

Scoot McGroot wrote:

JMaster5K wrote:

Scoot McGroot wrote:
Yeah, I was mostly listing Payne/Klintman/Dunn as guys that are listed as defensive presences somewhere at the 3/4/5 and likely to be available in the neighborhood of 36. I just imagine that with the team making the 2nd round, and getting a ton of eyeballs, there's going to be a lot of comments of "well, if that team just adds a couple more solid defenders..." and we'll see anyone that can reportedly defend, or be projected to defend, mocked to Indy as a result. Right or wrong.

I hear ya. I was looking at bigs that could fill in a bit, but you don't really expect anything from for a year or two, that have the potential to actually develop into a good rotation player? potential starting teammates for Walker, etc..... defense first types.

I still keep hearing that this is a weak draft, but, as we said before, it feels like there are going to be some good players, key rotation pieces, with long careers from this draft? The athletic testing numbers from this combine certainly are not weak. much better than I expected based on the previews?...

Yeah. I think this draft mostly has severely flawed players in it. Like Dunn, for example. He's a tremendous defender, and would fit any team in the league in that manner. He'd be a shoo-in for a lotto pick in most drafts. But he's not just terrible offensively, he's allergic to even playing offense in any way, to a point where he seems destined to be signed to vet minimum deals and hits some years, and sits some years. Etc.

I don’t mind drafting a big that is limited offensively as were Dale Davis and Dennis Rodman if they play great defense and rebounding is outstanding.

My big take away from today’s game (besides Hali being terrified) is the closing group needs a better a two. Assuming Chicago makes changes, could we be a Caruso team? I’m still unsure why Nemhard guarded Brunson so much and i think this game looks much different if we had a better, bigger defender to take the job. Carlisle clearly doesn’t trust Nesmith or McConnell for that job.

Caruso has got one more year at $9m, probably costs us a mix of picks and players.

Does one of Shephard or Jackson + 2nds get it done? Are there any other bigger 3 and D 2s that would improve our closing 5?

jarryd3107 wrote:Carlisle clearly doesn’t trust Nesmith or McConnell for that job.

Caruso has got one more year at $9m, probably costs us a mix of picks and players.

I don't think it is a matter of trust. I think Carlisle got spooked by a couple early fouls. It seems the refs have been living rent-free in Carlisle's head.

jarryd3107 wrote:My big take away from today’s game (besides Hali being terrified) is the closing group needs a better a two. Assuming Chicago makes changes, could we be a Caruso team? I’m still unsure why Nemhard guarded Brunson so much and i think this game looks much different if we had a better, bigger defender to take the job. Carlisle clearly doesn’t trust Nesmith or McConnell for that job.

I turned off the 4th, but they were all rotating in there. I think Nembhard had some really good positioning and whatnot, but Brunson is just in an All-NBA hot streak and there's just not much you can do. Nesmith has done better, but he's also drawn fouls quickly, etc.

Caruso has got one more year at $9m, probably costs us a mix of picks and players.

Does one of Shephard or Jackson + 2nds get it done? Are there any other bigger 3 and D 2s that would improve our closing 5?

I think Chicago would want a 1st instead of 2nds. And I don't know that Jackson helps the value there. We like him, but I don't know that other teams may value him on the open market. He's had a good run or two in the playoffs, but has had trouble otherwise being largely productive, thus far? And Chicago thinks they're closer to competing than wanting picks/etc.


My crazy out there idea is using Mathurin in a package to get Mikal Bridges. Bridges is solid enough offensively, especially as a 2nd/3rd option, and is stellar defensively, even with smaller opponents. You'd be able to switch Bridges and Nesmith, and still have a Nembhard/McConnell/Sheppard off the bench as good to decent defensive options, too.

Scoot McGroot wrote:My crazy out there idea is using Mathurin

my crazy out there idea is to trade Nembhard to a team that lacks a starting point guard. we can get by with Ty and TJ at point.