Official League Trade Deadline Thread: Pacers Don't Deal

[joew8302]

How about Matt Carroll and Earl Boykins for Jamal Tinsley and Stephen Graham? I realize Carroll has six years left, and I am incredibly bias because I do love his game, but he isn't getting many minutes in Charlotte. What do you guys think?

[Grang33r]

I wouldn't object to getting Vince Carter but it's a very risky situation. I mean, Carter can't win with Jefferson and Kidd what makes anyone think he'd win here with Dunleavy and Granger?

It's a risky move for immitate success, however, if it fails, our team goes back years yet again in terms of rebuilding.

[Scoot McGroot]

Earl Boykins cannot be traded by Charlotte. He has a trade restriction that will not expire until after the trade deadline, and then he's expiring. He's literally un-attainable unless Charlotte waives him.


However, I'd really like to have nothing to do with Matt Caroll's contract. That thing would haunt us for years, especially as he is simply a less talented version of Kareem Rush, and cannot play defense, but is paid for 5 more years. Luckily, he has a descending contract, but still, 5 years and almost $22 million left owed is a lot for a guy that would be inactive on many nights.

[Grang33r]

Vince Carter has shown that he cannot carry a team by himself and has no desire to do so. However, our backcourt has been the achilles heel of this team for the past few seasons, and he would be a serious upgrade at the SG position. We acquire Vince Carter and pair a PG with him early in the draft (Jerryd Bayless)...and boom! This team starts looking a lot more formidable especially for O'Brien's uptempo ball.

That's what i'm afriad of. If we get Carter, i think Marcus Williams comes with him, which i wouldn't mind don't get me wrong, i love his game, and all i've read on him last 2 years i've liked, and he has been tutored by Jason Kidd, but we can kiss good bye to drafting a PG. I wonder if they would still think about selecting a Eric Gordon JR, a player who can play either guard spot and develop him slowing from the bench?

Our guards are our problem i truly believe that.

[joew8302]

I respectfully disagree. Carroll had many big games last year, and has seemed to find the doghouse with Sam Vincent. Yes, he is not a great defender, but since when has that entered into the Pacers thought process about acquiring players? I think Carroll is a tough guy that can shoot from all over when given a chance to preform, I think he could really help Indiana and his contract wouldn't be that bad. Plus Rush is as good as gone next season. A move for Carroll would mean that we had a great outside shooter for the next 5 years, which is something this team has lacked.

I didn't know that about Boykins though. Good find on that. Boykins wasn't a big deal, since his name doesn't work though I would take salary filler on their roster.

[joew8302]

I think our biggest problems right now are the PG and C positions. I would love for Indiana to target Jerryd Bayless, Derrick Rose (if we get REALLY lucky), Brook Lopez or Roy Hibbert in the draft.

I don't understand the VC/JO swap though. Doesn't Carter have more years on his deal than JO? Wouldn't that just then delay rebuilding? I am not as anti-VC as some on here, but the Pacers won't be a title contender with Carter on the team, so I would rather suck up the final couple years on JO's deal or trade him for expiring contracts and rebuild than get VC and be mediocre for a few more years then rebuild.

[Scoot McGroot]

If that's the case, would you rather deal Tinsley for a longer deal in Carrol then?

[joew8302]

Yes. I think we have entirely different views of Matt Carroll though. I see him as a Jason Kapono type player that is a deadly shooter, especially when he gets consistent minutes. There are not many players with that skillset in the league and I think he would be a valueable resource. 5 million a year for him wouldn't be a bad deal at all IMO, especially if we can trade JO in a deal like Memphis got for Gasol. I think he would be a wise investment.

[cdash]

I think our biggest problems right now are the PG and C positions. I would love for Indiana to target Jerryd Bayless, Derrick Rose (if we get REALLY lucky), Brook Lopez or Roy Hibbert in the draft.

I don't understand the VC/JO swap though. Doesn't Carter have more years on his deal than JO? Wouldn't that just then delay rebuilding? I am not as anti-VC as some on here, but the Pacers won't be a title contender with Carter on the team, so I would rather suck up the final couple years on JO's deal or trade him for expiring contracts and rebuild than get VC and be mediocre for a few more years then rebuild.

I wouldnt touch Roy Hibbert with a 10 foot cattle prod. That guy has "stiff" written all over him. He is 7'2 and somehow only manages to get like 6 rebounds a game in college? He is super slow and super mechanical. No thanks. I like Lopez and Rose (Who doesnt like Rose though?), but Bayless doesnt wow me. After Rose, the next point guard I would target is D.J. Augustin. He is undersized, but he is a gamer with a very good basketball IQ.

As for Vince Carter, he plays half a$$ in New Jersey with Kidd and Jefferson flanking him...what makes you think he would start putting forth real effort with Diener and Granger around him?

[ajizzle]

Hibbert is gonna be good, and the team could use him. He's 7'2, 280, a 4-yr student, maybe the best player in his conference, coached by a Thompson, and a good kid on and off the court.

Best-case scenario: He's Patrick Ewing, gets 20-10-3 for his career, a perennial all-star, and anchor of a title contender for 7-11 years.

Worst-case scenario: He's Dikembe Mutombo, a shot-blocking/rebounding machine, wins DPOY 3x, and still the anchor of a title contender for maybe 5-8 years.

That's a lot to ask, but Hibbert is very good. He's done well in the Tourneys (Big East and March Madness), his measurables are great, but his heart seems to be in the game as well. I would love to have him on the team.

As long as Obie's our coach, I would like to do the VC-JO swap. Obie helped Pierce and AI have career years, and I think that he could do the same for Vince. Obie needs to have his star be a perimeter player... the experiment w/ JO didn't work, and for many reasons beyond just Xs and Os. Like most superstars, they are happy when they're getting theirs, and as quiet as it's kept, I'm sure Vince is ready to lose the role of JKidd's sidekick and step back into the spotlight.

Vince and Danny would be a good 1-2 combo, and w/ the plethora of shooters we have, they could do some damage driving to the goal. Vince could tutor Danny, and we could sneak into the playoffs. I like it.

[chatard5]

Hibbert is gonna be good, and the team could use him. He's 7'2, 280, a 4-yr student, maybe the best player in his conference, coached by a Thompson, and a good kid on and off the court.

Best-case scenario: He's Patrick Ewing, gets 20-10-3 for his career, a perennial all-star, and anchor of a title contender for 7-11 years.

Worst-case scenario: He's Dikembe Mutombo, a shot-blocking/rebounding machine, wins DPOY 3x, and still the anchor of a title contender for maybe 5-8 years.

That's a lot to ask, but Hibbert is very good. He's done well in the Tourneys (Big East and March Madness), his measurables are great, but his heart seems to be in the game as well. I would love to have him on the team.

As long as Obie's our coach, I would like to do the VC-JO swap. Obie helped Pierce and AI have career years, and I think that he could do the same for Vince. Obie needs to have his star be a perimeter player... the experiment w/ JO didn't work, and for many reasons beyond just Xs and Os. Like most superstars, they are happy when they're getting theirs, and as quiet as it's kept, I'm sure Vince is ready to lose the role of JKidd's sidekick and step back into the spotlight.

Vince and Danny would be a good 1-2 combo, and w/ the plethora of shooters we have, they could do some damage driving to the goal. Vince could tutor Danny, and we could sneak into the playoffs. I like it.

That's a pretty good worst-case scenerio, I am thinking worst-case is more like being Michael Olowokandi.

[cdash]

Hibbert is gonna be good, and the team could use him. He's 7'2, 280, a 4-yr student, maybe the best player in his conference, coached by a Thompson, and a good kid on and off the court.

Best-case scenario: He's Patrick Ewing, gets 20-10-3 for his career, a perennial all-star, and anchor of a title contender for 7-11 years.

Worst-case scenario: He's Dikembe Mutombo, a shot-blocking/rebounding machine, wins DPOY 3x, and still the anchor of a title contender for maybe 5-8 years.

That's a lot to ask, but Hibbert is very good. He's done well in the Tourneys (Big East and March Madness), his measurables are great, but his heart seems to be in the game as well. I would love to have him on the team.

As long as Obie's our coach, I would like to do the VC-JO swap. Obie helped Pierce and AI have career years, and I think that he could do the same for Vince. Obie needs to have his star be a perimeter player... the experiment w/ JO didn't work, and for many reasons beyond just Xs and Os. Like most superstars, they are happy when they're getting theirs, and as quiet as it's kept, I'm sure Vince is ready to lose the role of JKidd's sidekick and step back into the spotlight.

Vince and Danny would be a good 1-2 combo, and w/ the plethora of shooters we have, they could do some damage driving to the goal. Vince could tutor Danny, and we could sneak into the playoffs. I like it.

I dont see why you compare him only to Georgetown centers. He has nothing to do with the G'Town greats before him, and saying a "worst case scenario" is Dikembe Mutombo is a huge, huge stretch to say the very least. I am thinking more along the lines of, Patrick O'Bryant.

It kind of irks me doing deals just because a certain player fits into a coach's "system". O'Brien's system benefits almost any wing player that is on his team because he gives them the green light to fire away from three point land. I dont really think he coached Iverson to a career year either; Iverson hated O'Brien, which was the main reason Obie didnt make it into his second year in Philly.

It is interesting that you mention Vince wanting to shed his role as Kidd's "sidekick". I have yet to hear of any player who does not like playing with Kidd. I just dont like the idea of bringing him here. It solves nothing for us, and I can tell you right now VC would not be happy in Indiana. I want no part of Vince tutoring Granger either. The most interesting part of your response (to me at least) is that you mentioned us sneaking back into the playoffs. Call me a bad fan, but I dont find that to be a good thing. Losing four or five spots in the draft only to get molested by Boston or Detroit solves nothing.

[Wizop]

the fact that the Carter rumor won't die even though he doesn't do a thing for us tells you that we're willing to consider any deal that moves JO.

[shrink]

I'm trying to get a feel for what the Pacers are looking for in a Jermaine O'Neal deal? Which is the primary goal if JO is traded?

1. Bring back a big talent (like Vince) on another big contract?

2. Get picks or prospects?

3. Move a big longterm contract with him?

[count55]

Everybody here knows what their primary goal is.

Nobody here knows what the Pacers' primary goal would be.

[CableKC]

I'm trying to get a feel for what the Pacers are looking for in a Jermaine O'Neal deal? Which is the primary goal if JO is traded?

1. Bring back a big talent (like Vince) on another big contract?

2. Get picks or prospects?

3. Move a big longterm contract with him?

Most of us here probably hope for a deal closer to #2....where we get what every other major trade got, just so that we can simply move on from the JONeal era......but even I doubt that we would get that.

The problem is that TPTB want to still compete ( for whatever reason )....so they will probably insist on getting players that will help them now.....unfortunately, they still overvalue JONeal....which means that they will never get what they hope for. My guess is that they will prefer something closer to getting a comprable talent ( a la VC ) so that they can continue to do whatever the heck they are trying to do now......which IMHO is spinning their wheels until it isn't profitable to remain in Indy .

[Wizop]

the primary object is to give the community hope and to sell tickets now. they need to move Tinsley because the town has given up on him and they need to move JO because he's given up on the town. comparable talent is not a requirement. we need solid citizens willing to buy into the concept of team. we'll put up with losing if there is a plan to get competitive but we need a team that the city can be proud of.

have you watched all the TV interviews of IU fans? not one person has said that winning excuses Sampson. those are the same fans the Pacers need to win back.

[Grang33r]

Nets/Mavs deal is back on i guess, no George and no Stackhouse but they added Hassell and Van Horn. If NJ gets Harris, does this mean talks for O'Neal for Carter/Marcus Williams will be back on?

[Wizop]

I don't think Pacers have ever wanted Carter. NJ may have offerred him and the money may work, but I suspect the deal has not happened because of lack of interest on our end.

[count55]

Indiana Pacers
They're in a quandary. They don't want to give Jermaine O'Neal away, but until he can prove that he's healthy, his trade value isn't high enough for the Pacers to get what they think is fair value.

Other teams want Danny Granger and Shawne Williams, but I'm told the Pacers have rebuffed offers for both. That leaves Jeff Foster as perhaps their best trade chip -- a guy with enough size, toughness and rebounding ability to be valuable on a championship-caliber team. The Pacers have shopped Jamaal Tinsley for years, without success.