Shams: Pacers Moving toward Rebuild; Receptive to Trade Talks

[8305]

Setting aside the obnoxious delivery of the concept. Levert and Lamb for Love and Cleveland’s 2022 1st is the kind of move a team in our position should be considering.

[Tom White]

I think the best we can do with this guy is maybe put him on the Ignore list. Maybe report his post if you want.

[Scoot McGroot]

This was interesting.

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[Tom White]

This was interesting.

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He must be watching a different Brogdon in a parallel universe.

[Topofthekey]

This was interesting.

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Maybe Pacers can trade for Dillon Brooks to plug the hole at SF

[Scoot McGroot]

This was interesting.

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Maybe Pacers can trade for Dillon Brooks to plug the hole at SF

He’d be a great add, and probably the type of type A personality we need more than anything, but he fails your number 1 test. He’s missed almost 50% of his teams games this year due to injury, as well as nearly the entirety of 2018-19.

[8305]

This was interesting.

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My only complaint with Brogdan is he’s hurt a lot.
If you don’t have a better alternative he’s an exceptabe point guard but, just not very good at guarding the point guard position since he’s generally giving away quickness. Off the ball more I think he’s an elite shooter and if someone else is tasked with defending the quickest guy he’s a plus defender. Always liked the idea of Edmund Sumner playing next to him.

[Pacers Forever]

This was interesting.

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My only complaint with Brogdan is he’s hurt a lot.
If you don’t have a better alternative he’s an exceptabe point guard but, just not very good at guarding the point guard position since he’s generally giving away quickness. Off the ball more I think he’s an elite shooter and if someone else is tasked with defending the quickest guy he’s a plus defender. Always liked the idea of Edmund Sumner playing next to him.

I agree that he’s better off the ball. Agree he can stroke it and defense on quick guards is not his forte. I’ve stated many times he’s a shooting guard and what do the Pacers do ?
Draft a shooting guard in Duarte who I think can become a very good player.
Secondly Pacers duplicate the guard position with LeVert who also like Brogdon loves to dribble and try to create their own shot or driving layup.

This team’s fit is not good we know. Would have been such an interesting season if Sumner was healthy. He was quick, developing a 3 point shot, hustled, and created turnovers. He was on the rise and I sure hope he’s coming back and healthy next season.

[Scoot McGroot]

Where my head is at right now with this team (as of 1/3/2022):

I don't think this team is as bad as the record shows, but it's showing that it's a poorly matched roster at this point, and in desperate need of a shakeup. I don't know if trading a single (key) guy would do that, or if a more heavy overhaul of most of the vets is needed. For me, I'd take it in steps. I'm probably more toward wanting to keep Sabonis than Turner. I think if we get some defense at the wing and guard spot, we'd probably be able to minimize some pressure on Sabonis. And finding a real distributing type of PG is tough right now. I think Sabonis' ball handling (he was playing the PG spot, essentially, last night) is a major plus.

Brogdon can't be moved during the season, so, I'd keep him with an eye at dealing him during the draft/offseason if it doesn't work out. Heck, he could even be kept for the beginning of next season and moved in season if whatever moves we make show he's not a fit.

I'd look to keep Duarte, Jackson, and Oshae. I'd be reluctant to deal either of Goga or Kelan, as I think both have some talent and/or attitude to offer this team that we need. Unless he's needed for salary filler or whatnot, I'd prefer to keep Torrey Craig as a vet in the locker room who can do some stuff on the court.

I'd probably look at moves around Turner/Levert/Justin/Lamb. And if you know my love for Justin the player, you'll know I take that as a grave statement .

I think this team needs shooting, and especially a motion shooter that can play off of Sabonis much like Doug did. Duncan Robinson would be the gold standard there. He's a terrible defender, but I'm still a believer in the elite nature of his shooting. He's elite at shooting stationary or off motion. Garrison Mathews is another guy to look at, but I doubt we'd deal what Houston would want to let go of him after he signed an ultimate team friendly deal there to convert from 2 way. Dougie would be a possibility, but we can't legally re-acquire him this season since we dealt him away in a S&T, and I'd prefer someone a tad younger.

I'm ok with keeping Turner and dealing Sabonis. But if that happens, I think we need another premiere ball handler on the wings to make up for the loss of Sabonis. Turner is many things, but he's a tertiary type passer/handler, at best. We'd need help, for sure, there. We would still need shooting in the replacement, but defense would be a big less of a need here than offense.

We NEED someone who can guard the 1 spot. I don't know if it's a 2 guard that can play with Brogdon like Oladipo did, or if it's a more pure PG sized guy that would push Brogdon to the 2, defensively, but I think we need someone that pairs better with Brogdon or Duarte long-term. We've talked about this type of target before on the board. Maybe it's a guy like De'Anthony Melton? Brogdon could still handle the ball a ton, while Melton could guard multiple positions.

If we deal Turner, we'd need a starting caliber PF in return. I have faith that Brissett can be a long-term keeper for this franchise, but I'm not sure if it's as a starter or 6th man type. We need someone to hold the fort down until he can prove one way or the other, and to push him and Jackson to develop. This would ideally be a guy that is a good defender.

It might be a multi-step process (deal Turner/Levert this year, reassess in the offseason and maybe deal Brogdon/Craig then?). But I think moves have to happen. More than anything, this team just usually seems complacent right now. I'm not sure if it's from a single guy, or multiple guys, or just that we've mostly kept the same lineup for a couple years with minimal changes. But something has to happen to change these guys out of their funk.

I'd probably hold onto Warren and see what happens. Worse case, he expires. Best case, he's something we desperately need in a wing with size that can get a bucket efficiently, and do some help defensively, all with little ego. But mostly, he just likely won't get us anything of value in trade. Lamb won't either, but that's ok. Levert isn't worth much, if anything, but I bet someone might deal for him in hope that "Indy just wasted his talents".



Where are y'all at right now in your thoughts of this team?

[Topofthekey]

Where are y'all at right now in your thoughts of this team?

Definitely agree that changes are needed

The talent level on this team isn't elite, and the mismatch between whatever talent that the team does have makes the problem worse

Agree with many things you said, so I'm not going to rehash them

For me, there are two different paths to take moving forward. One's more aggressive than the other

The less aggressive path, or let's call it option A, would be to make a series of trades to reshape the roster one step at a time

Option A:

There's an obvious hole at SF to be plugged, so just start there

We don't need a star, or even a high level starter. Just a role player capable of starting

Someone like Kyle Anderson or Cedi Osman would be suitable. Terrence Ross should be another relatively cheap, get-able option

I'm not sure what's the exact offer. Maybe salary filler (Craig + TJM?) + some good 2RP

Once the hole at SF is plugged, the next problem on our plate is the question of our backcourt

Our three best players there are Brogdon, LeVert, and Duarte. Duarte is obviously the long term keeper among them. Brogdon isn't tradable right now, so the question is really just what do we want to do with LeVert. Before his injury, getting Rubio for LeVert made the most sense. I think just trading LeVert for a decent 3nD playmaker would help the team a lot

Jalen Brunson, Donte DiVincenzo, Facundo Campazzo are all great gets, if their team is willing to part with them

We'll probably have to attach an asset to LeVert, especially if the target is Brunson or DDV. Maybe LeVert + Goga?

If we managed to get this far, then the next question is Turbonis

I still think we trade the one who gets us the best offer. But if none of the offers are to our liking, I think we keep them both and punt the decision into the off-season

So, unless we get a decent offer for either Myles or Domas, we'll finish the season with this roster

Myles, Jackson
Domas, Brissett
Anderson, Holiday, Warren
Brogdon, Duarte, Martin
Brunson, Washington/Sykes

Obviously Anderson can be Osman or Ross, or whichever similar player we managed to get really

It still isn't a great roster, but it should be a much improved one. Move Brogdon in the off-season, either for a proper PG, or a better SF than Ross (or whomever we acquired)

And finally shop one of Myles or Domas, depending on who we got in the Brogdon trade, to complete the overhaul

I also mentioned there is another path, a more aggressive one, right? That's option B

Option B:

Just ride out the season. We get a top 10 pick if nothing else. Once draft day arrives though, it's time to get aggressive

Combine Brogdon + one of Myles or Domas into one superstar

Throw in our pick if there isn't anyone we like in the draft

Offer Brogdon + Domas + our pick for Lillard

Or Brogdon + Myles + pick for Beal (if he opts in)

Or make an offer for another superstar who might be available at that time. Brogdon + Myles/Domas + top 10 pick should be a competitive offer

It sounds really expensive, both in terms of the trade assets that we have to give up and the massive contract that one of these superstars come with, but that's to be expected when acquiring a superstar isn't it

Interestingly, we'll still need to plug the hole at SF, so we'd still probably need to do the same trade from option A for this, acquiring someone like Kyle Anderson, Terrence Ross, or Cedi Osman

If we traded for Lillard, we end up with

Myles, Jackson
Brissett, MLE guy
Anderson, Holiday, Warren
Duarte, Martin
Lillard, LeVert

We get a great number 1 guy in Lillard. Duarte can grow into being his robin. Myles will have a bigger role on offense too while still anchoring the defense, and we have solid role players like Brissett and Anderson in the starting 5. We also have possibly one of the best bench in league if both Warren and LeVert are healthy

If we traded for Beal, it's

Domas, Jackson
Brissett, MLE guy
Anderson, Holiday, Warren
Beal, Martin
Duarte, LeVert

We also get a clear number 1 guy here in Beal, who is also very effective off ball, so offensively this roster will be anchored by him and Domas. Duarte is plays well off ball too, so Domas will shine finding either Beal or Duarte for his passes. Domas being the point-center here also allows them to get away without having a real PG on the roster. Like the Lillard roster, we also still have Warren and LeVert on the bench. If one of them gets too expensive, just let them walk. It's probably overkill having both of them on the bench anyway

It took me way too long to type all this, so I'm just going to stop abruptly here

[Wizop]

Where are y'all at right now in your thoughts of this team?

I'm willing to play out the year not because I'm in love with the roster but because we're going to be in the lottery unless Warren changes everything. If we do have a high pick, I don't want a trade to have forced who we take. I want the BPA before we move a starter as the rookie may dictate who to move

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[boomershadow]

Where are y'all at right now in your thoughts of this team?

Blow it up

[Vorda]

my trade suggestions

Levert+Lamb+1st 2023 pick for McCollum

Sabonis for Grant + pick

Warren + Craig for Barnes

Next year Brogdon + 2nd pick for G-Alexander

[Vorda]

Last year Chicago replaced Satoransky, Valentine, Markanen, Young and Carter for Ball, DeRozan, Caruso and Vučević... that is just brilliant... and now they are top seed in conference

[Scoot McGroot]

my trade suggestions

Levert+Lamb+1st 2023 pick for McCollum

Are you willing to go into the luxury tax, as that deal puts Indy? CJ is a fine enough player, though probably not a real impact player, but it’s his salary that makes adding him tough. Just that swap outs Indy a couple million into the tax, and with only 14 guys, the league minimum, so they can’t develop someone in the 15th spot at all.

Sabonis for Grant + pick

Maybe, if it’s a great pick, but I highly doubt Detroit would deal their pick this year at all, let alone with Grant.

Warren + Craig for Barnes

Sacramento won’t consider this at all. Until Warren returns healthy and proves he’s an impact player, he’s essentially just a dead salary expiring contract. I think you’d have to include a 1st here for Sacra,Neto to maybe consider it, but they’re probably not loooking to sell him off for minimal on court impact.

Next year Brogdon + 2nd pick for G-Alexander

Who is G-Alexander? There’s no one in the league or draft by the name. Do you mean Nickeil Walker-Alexander? If we don’t want Levert, why would we want NAW? They’re a pretty darned similar player in style and down to inefficiency, too.

[Scoot McGroot]

Where are y'all at right now in your thoughts of this team?

Blow it up

Any keepers? Or you dealing Duarte, Jackson, and the ticket takers, too?

[Tom White]

Any keepers? Or you dealing Duarte, Jackson, and the ticket takers, too?

Well now, that depends. What do you think we could get for the ticket takers? Would we need to throw in a couple concession workers or parking attendants?

[Scoot McGroot]

Any keepers? Or you dealing Duarte, Jackson, and the ticket takers, too?

Well now, that depends. What do you think we could get for the ticket takers? Would we need to throw in a couple concession workers or parking attendants?

Well, the ticket takers have fresh legs. They are, unfortunately, very lightly worked

[Topofthekey]

Any keepers? Or you dealing Duarte, Jackson, and the ticket takers, too?

Well now, that depends. What do you think we could get for the ticket takers? Would we need to throw in a couple concession workers or parking attendants?

Well, the ticket takers have fresh legs. Hey, unfortunately, very lightly worked

oof

[Tom White]

Well, the ticket takers have fresh legs. They are, unfortunately, very lightly worked

That's pretty funny. Sad, but funny none the less.