Roster construction

Post #161 » by **boomershadow** » Wed Jul 20, 2022 11:46 pm

I'm not the biggest fan of playing small at the 3, but I think that's just the direction the team is going and no use fighting it.

Wizop · Post #162 » by **Wizop** » Wed Jul 20, 2022 11:53 pm

boomershadow wrote:I'm not the biggest fan of playing small at the 3, but I think that's just the direction the team is going and no use fighting it.

I'm hoping we find an expiring true 3, but it wouldn't be terrible to play 3 guards for a year and hope the next draft gives us a wing.

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Topofthekey · Post #163 » by **Topofthekey** » Thu Jul 21, 2022 3:36 am

I think we stick to Mathurin and Duarte for a year, and then decide whether one of them should be traded for a SF

In theory one of them could play off the bench, but I want to see how both of them fare as starters (playing against the other team's starters)

Pacers Forever · Post #164 » by **Pacers Forever** » Thu Jul 21, 2022 5:17 am

Topofthekey wrote:I think we stick to Mathurin and Duarte for a year, and then decide whether one of them should be traded for a SF

In theory one of them could play off the bench, but I want to see how both of them fare as starters (playing against the other team's starters)

It’s way too early to speculate but it’s fun.

Tyrese/Hield/Duarte/Smith/Turner start

then by second quarter subs in would be

McConnell/Mathurin/Brissett/Theis/Jackson

Taylor, Goga, Nembhard, Brown, Nesmith

pick up minutes in foul situations and strategic resting starters times.

By the way this is the only 15 players listed on the Pacers official website roster now.

Post #165 » by **Scoot McGroot** » Thu Jul 21, 2022 12:42 pm

Pacers Forever wrote:
By the way this is the only 15 players listed on the Pacers official website roster now.

The exhibit 10 guys have yet to officially be signed for camp. They’re committed, but they don’t count against the 20 man limit yet.

Wizop · Post #166 » by **Wizop** » Thu Jul 21, 2022 2:09 pm

Topofthekey wrote:I think we stick to Mathurin and Duarte for a year, and then decide whether one of them should be traded for a SF

I see no need for that trade. I'd start both this year and bring Buddy off the bench but I'm confident with 3 draft picks next year we'll get a true SF next summer. maybe even two of them. There's also the possibility that KBrown learns to shoot or defend.

EDIT and Brissett or Taylor could learn to play there too.

Hamburger · Post #167 » by **Hamburger** » Thu Jul 21, 2022 5:34 pm

I think we would be nuts to Trade Heild. We should tell the Lakers to buzz off. With Buddy, Duarte, and Mathurin, we are guaranteed to have two shooters on the floor at all times. One of these guys coming off the bench would be too beneficial to trade for Laker Trash.

Post #168 » by **Scoot McGroot** » Thu Jul 21, 2022 7:38 pm

Hamburger wrote:I think we would be nuts to Trade Heild. We should tell the Lakers to buzz off. With Buddy, Duarte, and Mathurin, we are guaranteed to have two shooters on the floor at all times. One of these guys coming off the bench would be too beneficial to trade for Laker Trash.

I think if the goal is to also play Hali, Nembhard, Oshae, and Brown, and you know that McConnell will also get minutes, then there’s really running out of opportunities and minutes, and dealing Buddy could clear that up.

xBulletproof · Post #169 » by **xBulletproof** » Thu Jul 21, 2022 7:40 pm

I honestly care nothing about this season with Ayton gone. Even if Mathurin becomes a star (which I don't believe - I think he'll be good), we still need at least 1 more. So I could care less how this season goes. I thought Ayton potentially gave us that 3rd guy.

At this point, I'm all for a super tank this season. Move Buddy/Theis/McConnell in a Laker deal for pickS and or swaps (plural) way down the road, and buyout Westbrook. We would at that point be looking at next offseason with only roughly 30m in salary, or 100m in cap space, pending other moves. It would take some weird movement as Theis I think has to be moved in a separate trade, but Buddy for Westbrook alone works with our cap space. So you could work something else out for Theis separately, which you'd need to do with the rules.

Then you can look at the Myles to the Hornets for picks/PJ Washington. No telling if they're willing to give up Washington with the Bridges mess. Giving you a former lottery guy to play the 4 or picks. A lineup of Haliburton/Duarte/Mathurin/PJ Washington/Jalen Smith. With Gordon Hayward in there somewhere probably for salary reasons, but either way you've opened a ton of minutes to see what you have in the young guys, 70m in cap space with the Hornets move next offseason and a load of picks to build with including your own which probably will be very high.

Honestly, that's probably the best long term way I can see going forward. No quick patch jobs, throw the young guys in the fire and see what you REALLY have, and pray for Wembayana. :lol:

Wizop · Post #170 » by **Wizop** » Thu Jul 21, 2022 7:50 pm

Scoot McGroot wrote:I think if the goal is to also play Hali, Nembhard, Oshae, and Brown, and you know that McConnell will also get minutes, then there’s really running out of opportunities and minutes, and dealing Buddy could clear that up.

I think Brown gets a two way and there's still an open roster spot for a veteran 3. I suppose it is possible that Oshae will be thrown at there at 3 rather than 4 or that Oshae and Taylor will be the second unit forwards with neither having a clearly defined designation as the 3 or the 4.

but barring a trade I'd start Maturin and Duarte as the first unit wings with Buddy and Nesmith backing them up. that would have both units running the same 3 guard schemes.

of course, there is plenty of room for players to play themselves into or out of the rotation.

Wizop · Post #171 » by **Wizop** » Fri Jul 22, 2022 5:13 pm

Read on Twitter

this makes me happy

Post #172 » by **boomershadow** » Fri Jul 22, 2022 5:33 pm

Turner and Hield for Westbrook gotta be worth at least THT and 2 firsts lol. Even then its a tossup on whether to go for it imo. Lakers crazy to think one FRP gets it done.

SK21209 · Post #173 » by **SK21209** » Fri Jul 22, 2022 8:20 pm

boomershadow wrote:Turner and Hield for Westbrook gotta be worth at least THT and 2 firsts lol. Even then its a tossup on whether to go for it imo. Lakers crazy to think one FRP gets it done.

Agreed that it has to be both firsts, and thats just to keep you guys on the phone. I think our FO understands that too, they're just slow-playing everything to wait for Kyrie.

Topofthekey · Post #174 » by **Topofthekey** » Sat Jul 23, 2022 3:31 am

xBulletproof wrote:I honestly care nothing about this season with Ayton gone. Even if Mathurin becomes a star (which I don't believe - I think he'll be good), we still need at least 1 more. So I could care less how this season goes. I thought Ayton potentially gave us that 3rd guy.

Warriors won this year with Curry more or less being their only real star though

Draymond and Klay to me are more elite system players than stars

Wizop · Post #175 » by **Wizop** » Sat Jul 23, 2022 12:33 pm

Topofthekey wrote:
xBulletproof wrote:I honestly care nothing about this season with Ayton gone. Even if Mathurin becomes a star (which I don't believe - I think he'll be good), we still need at least 1 more. So I could care less how this season goes. I thought Ayton potentially gave us that 3rd guy.

Warriors won this year with Curry more or less being their only real star though

Draymond and Klay to me are more elite system players than stars

And neither the Lakers nor the Nets dominated.

Can 5 good players beat 2 great ones and 3 just guys? I don't know although Bob Knight and Tony Hinkle both made that work in the college game. What I do know is I like to watch team ball more than hero ball.

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Wizop · Post #176 » by **Wizop** » Mon Jul 25, 2022 5:26 pm

Kravitz writes that Turner and Hield will be moved if at all possible.

Read on Twitter

Pacers Forever · Post #177 » by **Pacers Forever** » Mon Jul 25, 2022 7:50 pm

Wizop wrote:Kravitz writes that Turner and Hield will be moved if at all possible.

I really hate moving one of the top 3 point shooters in the league regardless of his 20+ mil salary.

I don’t like moving Turner but if he’s not all in with us then so be it.

I don’t really think we need more cap space unless they’ve got huge plans next year to go after a couple of huge contract players.

Wizop · Post #178 » by **Wizop** » Mon Jul 25, 2022 8:00 pm

Pacers Forever wrote:I don’t really think we need more cap space unless they’ve got huge plans next year to go after a couple of huge contract players.

I'm not going to take a shot at the math. Scoot might particularly if he has everything in a spreadsheet already. my assumption is that the plan is to build through the draft. three rookie contracts next summer aren't going to put a dent in our cap space unless Turner gets a big raise or is traded for a fat contract.

Topofthekey · Post #179 » by **Topofthekey** » Wed Jul 27, 2022 10:18 am

Pacers Forever wrote:
Wizop wrote:Kravitz writes that Turner and Hield will be moved if at all possible.

I really hate moving one of the top 3 point shooters in the league regardless of his 20+ mil salary.

I don’t like moving Turner but if he’s not all in with us then so be it.

I don’t really think we need more cap space unless they’ve got huge plans next year to go after a couple of huge contract players.

I keep arriving at the same conclusion: Pacers should prioritize re-signing Turner

The team already has enough quality young players in Haliburton, Duarte, Mathurin, Smith, and Jackson. And they still have their own pick in 2023, and the pick from Celtics and potentially also from Cavs. There is such a thing as too many young players and not enough opportunity imo. I think the team is at the point where selling more assets for picks starts being counterproductive. Phase one of the rebuild aka acquiring young building blocks is over and done. They should focus on phase two now, growing the young players they have and building a competitive/winning culture

Re-sign Turner. Keep Hield (the Athletic article mentions coaches love his work ethic)

Tom White · Post #180 » by **Tom White** » Wed Jul 27, 2022 1:31 pm

Topofthekey wrote:
Pacers Forever wrote:
Wizop wrote:Kravitz writes that Turner and Hield will be moved if at all possible.

I really hate moving one of the top 3 point shooters in the league regardless of his 20+ mil salary.

I don’t like moving Turner but if he’s not all in with us then so be it.

I don’t really think we need more cap space unless they’ve got huge plans next year to go after a couple of huge contract players.

I keep arriving at the same conclusion: Pacers should prioritize re-signing Turner

The team already has enough quality young players in Haliburton, Duarte, Mathurin, Smith, and Jackson. And they still have their own pick in 2023, and the pick from Celtics and potentially also from Cavs. There is such a thing as too many young players and not enough opportunity imo. I think the team is at the point where selling more assets for picks starts being counterproductive. Phase one of the rebuild aka acquiring young building blocks is over and done. They should focus on phase two now, growing the young players they have and building a competitive/winning culture

Re-sign Turner. Keep Hield (the Athletic article mentions coaches love his work ethic)

I agree with both of you guys. The team is young enough as it stands now. The cap space may be best used combined with some of the future draft picks for a good SF. I think a decent package can be done that way instead of sending out players who are now, or can become, contributors to this team.