How close are the Pacers to being a championship team?

jovencane · Post #21 » by **jovencane** » Sun May 19, 2013 8:04 pm

Pacers are probably one of the more improved overall team from last year, led by the most improved player.

but the Heat are playing Allen over Miller and Andersen over Anthony. not to mention the fact that Bosh was out the entire series.

I would be extremely worried about Hibbert getting in foul trouble early in the game and/or being ineffective because of having to guard Bosh's perimeter shots.

Bosh was undressing Hibbert in the first ten minutes of last year's semi-final series before he got injured.

Scoot McGroot · Post #22 » by **Scoot McGroot** » Sun May 19, 2013 10:45 pm

Yup. But for every Bosh, Allen, or Anderson shot, Lebron isn't shooting. I'll take that.

Solid · Post #23 » by **Solid** » Tue May 21, 2013 3:28 am

We have a punchers chance right now.
If it weren't for the somewhat above average caliber of the defending champs we'd have a pretty decent shot.

We are (imho) about one healthy Danny Granger, another year of seasoning, and better all around point guard play from dethroning the selfish,over-rated, arrogant, me first, bunch of hero ballers.

Moooose · Post #24 » by **Moooose** » Tue May 21, 2013 10:35 am

I too think that maturity would definitely make the team better. Most of the guys are still yet to reach their ceilings and that is the best asset we have.

If I have to make additions though, I would like a playmaking back-up point guard, someone like Andre Miller but younger. George Hill fits the bill perfectly, but if things aren't right, we need someone better than DJ who could make things happen especially when Hill is out or we are resting him. Someone who could make the energy guys get their chances on offense.

8305 · Post #25 » by **8305** » Tue May 21, 2013 4:18 pm

Realistically I see us being about a year away.

If you can assume that Danny comes back and is close to the player he was and that he embarces the 6th man role, a lot of pieces fall into place.

There's an arguement for bringing DJ back to back up HIll. He's familiar with the system and guys playing in it. He's got a really strong guy joining him in the second unit. He will be better and probably won't cost as much as he did last summer. I wouldn't be surprised if he earned more minutes in these circumstances.

See what big grabs the opportunity, draft a wing who could be better than OJ (there are several who will likely be there when we draft). Now maybe the bench is a plus.

The starting unit is already pretty good yet still has upside.

Wizop · Post #26 » by **Wizop** » Tue May 21, 2013 5:31 pm

I think the odds of the draft giving us a point guard better than DJ are better than the odds it will give us a shooting guard better than OJ.

8305 · Post #27 » by **8305** » Tue May 21, 2013 8:18 pm

I've been to a couple of the playoff games and have noticed during the warmups that OJ's shot looks totally broken. I wonder if that explains why Green has gotten minutes over him lately.

Hardway, Franklin, Bullock, Crabbe > OJ in my opinion

I like Nate Wolters of the pg's available but would be surprised if any were an upgrade next year over DJ.

miltk · Post #28 » by **miltk** » Thu May 23, 2013 10:51 pm

they're killing their own selves. bad passing/shooting decisions. they're one really smart guard away from being very strong,,,a guy who can put a stop to their impulsive behavior and just say "hey wait a minute, what are you guyz doing....here, gimme the damn ball"___________somebody like cp3

Boneman2 · Post #29 » by **Boneman2** » Thu May 23, 2013 11:19 pm

miltk wrote:they're killing their own selves. bad passing/shooting decisions. they're one really smart guard away from being very strong,,,a guy who can put a stop to their impulsive behavior and just say "hey wait a minute, what are you guyz doing....here, gimme the damn ball"___________somebody like cp3

Amen to that.

George Hill looked pretty bad in all aspects last night and it's not like too much is being asked in his matchup with Chalmers. He absolutely is missing certain pg capabilities like vision, anticipation, handling ability, passing ability, and creative instincts, plus he lacks strength.

Pop knew he was no more than a sixth man. I doubt he ever seriously considered Hill over Parker, and somehow we are out a young stud and $40 mill.

I was calling for Bledsoe or Vazquez before we over payed Hill and Indy2tW didn't understand why. Back then either could've been had for cheap.

No-Man · Post #30 » by **No-Man** » Fri May 24, 2013 1:39 am

Trade Stephenson+1st+Granger for Gordon+Roberts+Smith
Sign Millsap (5 years younger than West)
re-sign Hansbrough in a cheap deal, if not, pursue Landry

That'll be championship caliber if Gordon pan out.

chube · Post #31 » by **chube** » Fri May 24, 2013 1:44 am

Fischella wrote:Trade Stephenson+1st+Granger for Gordon+Roberts+Smith
Sign Millsap (5 years younger than West)
re-sign Hansbrough in a cheap deal, if not, pursue Landry

That'll be championship caliber if Gordon pan out.

I don't know if I agree. Stephenson is young and an up-and-comer, Danny is expiring and still has value when healthy. Gordon is injury-prone (albeit good when healthy and motivated), Smith is a bit of a punk and doesn't contribute a ton consistently, and Brian Roberts is, to me, too unproven to be part of a deal where we give up our former cornerstone, a young stud on a cheap deal in Lance and a 1st.

Millsap is good, but he and Tyler are too similar to me. Millsap is a better shot, but not as scrappy. He'd be a perfect alternative to West, but West is still our #1.

No-Man · Post #32 » by **No-Man** » Fri May 24, 2013 1:52 am

West is 33 years old, Millsap is 28
The only reason why NOLA would do that is because of the concerns with Gordon health and desire to remain there, and because Granger is an exp contract.

Indiana has no market to try to snatch a big name next year, they need to take advantage of Granger exp.contract, Gordon value is low now, but is upside is huge, top3 SG if he stay healthy.

And... he's from Indiana.

Stephenson is a role player and a headcase, you would have to pay him next year, and with this guys you never know if they do something stupid in the end.

Smith money is not guaranteed and Robers is a good back-up at that price, he's good on offense, better than Augustin actually.

Post #33 » by **Grang33r** » Fri May 24, 2013 4:29 am

miltk wrote:they're killing their own selves. bad passing/shooting decisions. they're one really smart guard away from being very strong,,,a guy who can put a stop to their impulsive behavior and just say "hey wait a minute, what are you guyz doing....here, gimme the damn ball"___________somebody like cp3

Of course they are. They are a young team. Games played in the conference finals per team prior to last nights game was redic. Only Pacer to appear in the conference finals was Mahimni and that was for a handful of garbage time minutes with Dallas.

A team that has been in this situation for three years now and loaded with veterans, Miami Heat, were also pretty sloppy with the ball.

The reason we lost wasn't because Hibbert was on the bench or our sloppy play. The real reason we lost was Paul George made a critical mistake when Ray Allen ran by him, and that split second gave James enough time/space to make his move for the layup. George will learn from it, and the Pacers will learn from it.

At the end of the day, Miami did what they needed and were supposed to do: win at home.

Pacers will be ok going forward.

Post #34 » by **Grang33r** » Fri May 24, 2013 4:32 am

Fischella wrote:Stephenson is a role player and a headcase, you would have to pay him next year, and with this guys you never know if they do something stupid in the end.

He's a headcase? I am not sure if you know what you are talking about. No need to act like a Pacers expert because you finally watched one of our games.

chube · Post #35 » by **chube** » Fri May 24, 2013 6:15 am

Grang33r wrote:
miltk wrote:they're killing their own selves. bad passing/shooting decisions. they're one really smart guard away from being very strong,,,a guy who can put a stop to their impulsive behavior and just say "hey wait a minute, what are you guyz doing....here, gimme the damn ball"___________somebody like cp3

Of course they are. They are a young team. Games played in the conference finals per team prior to last nights game was redic. Only Pacer to appear in the conference finals was Mahimni and that was for a handful of garbage time minutes with Dallas.

A team that has been in this situation for three years now and loaded with veterans, Miami Heat, were also pretty sloppy with the ball.

The reason we lost wasn't because Hibbert was on the bench or our sloppy play. The real reason we lost was Paul George made a critical mistake when Ray Allen ran by him, and that split second gave James enough time/space to make his move for the layup. George will learn from it, and the Pacers will learn from it.

At the end of the day, Miami did what they needed and were supposed to do: win at home.

Pacers will be ok going forward.

Well said!

And agreed, I would not call Stephenson a head case. Pre-this year? Yes. But by all accounts (public, media, teammates, coaches) he has really figured it out. He still gets a little showy on the court occasionally and tries to do too much, but that's not related to being a head case.

miltk · Post #36 » by **miltk** » Fri May 24, 2013 7:12 am

you know,,,i wasn't addressing the last play, and i'm not second guessing it like the media. george plays james correctly, james passes the ball off and that's how the pacers would have preferred it. but george didn't. sh** happens.

i don't think youth is a good explanation for some of the things indy does, but i do think some of that responsibility goes back to the coach.

Grang33r wrote:
miltk wrote:they're killing their own selves. bad passing/shooting decisions. they're one really smart guard away from being very strong,,,a guy who can put a stop to their impulsive behavior and just say "hey wait a minute, what are you guyz doing....here, gimme the damn ball"___________somebody like cp3

Of course they are. They are a young team. Games played in the conference finals per team prior to last nights game was redic. Only Pacer to appear in the conference finals was Mahimni and that was for a handful of garbage time minutes with Dallas.

A team that has been in this situation for three years now and loaded with veterans, Miami Heat, were also pretty sloppy with the ball.

The reason we lost wasn't because Hibbert was on the bench or our sloppy play. The real reason we lost was Paul George made a critical mistake when Ray Allen ran by him, and that split second gave James enough time/space to make his move for the layup. George will learn from it, and the Pacers will learn from it.

At the end of the day, Miami did what they needed and were supposed to do: win at home.

Pacers will be ok going forward.

O-Dubb · Post #37 » by **O-Dubb** » Fri May 24, 2013 12:53 pm

I couldn't get this posted on PacersDigest....because I think they thought I was a troll. No matter....

Scoot McGroot · Post #38 » by **Scoot McGroot** » Fri May 24, 2013 3:15 pm

Grang33r wrote:
Fischella wrote:Stephenson is a role player and a headcase, you would have to pay him next year, and with this guys you never know if they do something stupid in the end.

He's a headcase? I am not sure if you know what you are talking about. No need to act like a Pacers expert because you finally watched one of our games.

I gotta agree with him a bit on Lance. He's been a bit of a headcase to varying degrees throughout his entire life, and especially with the Pacers. His assault charge shortly after draft day? His getting in fights with veterans his 1st 2 years? His choke sign last year to Lebron in the playoffs as he was planted on the bench? His constant flexing at the Knicks fans last series?

I think there will always be a "knuckle-headedness" level with Lance that I'm uncomfortable with. Remember, Ron had it all put together for long stretches here too, but the knucklehead will almost always emerge at some point. The question is, "To what degree?" and "How much are you willing to deal with?"

Post #39 » by **Grang33r** » Fri May 24, 2013 5:13 pm

Scoot McGroot wrote:
Grang33r wrote:
Fischella wrote:Stephenson is a role player and a headcase, you would have to pay him next year, and with this guys you never know if they do something stupid in the end.

He's a headcase? I am not sure if you know what you are talking about. No need to act like a Pacers expert because you finally watched one of our games.

I gotta agree with him a bit on Lance. He's been a bit of a headcase to varying degrees throughout his entire life, and especially with the Pacers. His assault charge shortly after draft day? His getting in fights with veterans his 1st 2 years? His choke sign last year to Lebron in the playoffs as he was planted on the bench? His constant flexing at the Knicks fans last series?

I think there will always be a "knuckle-headedness" level with Lance that I'm uncomfortable with. Remember, Ron had it all put together for long stretches here too, but the knucklehead will almost always emerge at some point. The question is, "To what degree?" and "How much are you willing to deal with?"

I don't know. I think you're searching deep right there trying to find anything on Lance. Flexing his muscles as he's happy to score on the Knicks in a physical series as underdogs? Whats next, you guys gonna tell me Mutombo was a headcase because did waved his finger after blocks or Russell Westbrook is a headcase because he flexes his muscles after dunks?

Indy4Life · Post #40 » by **Indy4Life** » Sat May 25, 2013 1:41 pm

The Pacers biggest needs for a championship:

1 - Keep the starting 5 together. They have GREAT chemistry, feed off each other and there are NO EGOs.

2 - Improve the wing play off the bench. Of course we figured to have Danny/Lance as the first wind, but that didn't work out with the injuries. I try to deal Granger, Lance fits better in the starting 5 and Danny will have more value to another team. In the long run, we may find that OJ is the wing we want off the bench and we simply need a 12th man in the rotation to fill out the roster.

This team is very good. We have everything except that 'SUPERSTAR' and Paul George is going to fill that role.