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Glad we dodged the Griffin bullet

His defense on smallball 4s and his contract/age are no go's for this team IMO

Pacersike wrote:Glad we dodged the Griffin bullet

His defense on smallball 4s and his contract/age are no go's for this team IMO

I like what the Clippers got much more than what they gave up. I think this shows what goes wrong when you let the coach be the GM. not only is it two full time jobs, but the coach has to worry that taking the long view will have the team peaking after he's been fired. West has the Clippers clearing the decks. SVG has the Pistons desperately trying to be better now at the expense of a potential cap disaster as Griffin ages and his contract explodes.

I don't think KP would have entertained a Blake Griffin in the first place.

Sure, Griffin and Vic would have been fun to watch, but adding Griffin does nothing good for the future of the team, and it's also not as if adding him pushes the team into contention right away. I might be exaggerating, but I'm not sure I'd take Griffin even if the price was just a bunch of expiring contracts. It might actually be better to keep the team friendly contracts of Al, Bogie, and Collison, especially if Griffin end up having injury issues and the team becomes saddled with his contract. This is not to say that Griffin isn't a productive player, just that with Myles, Domas, and currently Thad already on the team, there really is no need to roll the dice with Griffin

Holiday
Ajinca
'20 1st (lotto protected)
4
Collison
Bogdanovic
Jefferson
'19 2nd [if settled w/BK]
'24 2nd

Wizop wrote:

Pacersike wrote:Glad we dodged the Griffin bullet

His defense on smallball 4s and his contract/age are no go's for this team IMO

I like what the Clippers got much more than what they gave up. I think this shows what goes wrong when you let the coach be the GM. not only is it two full time jobs, but the coach has to worry that taking the long view will have the team peaking after he's been fired. West has the Clippers clearing the decks. SVG has the Pistons desperately trying to be better now at the expense of a potential cap disaster as Griffin ages and his contract explodes.

In SVG's defense, he isn't just competing now in order to get wins or keep his record looking good or try keeping his job. With their new arena, I've been hearing the Pistons owner is really wanting to push to make the team at least a playoff team asap. Just what I've heard, of course.

Super Powered wrote:Holiday
Ajinca
'20 1st (lotto protected)
4
Collison
Bogdanovic
Jefferson
'19 2nd [if settled w/BK]
'24 2nd

Holiday with Oladipo is an interesting pairing. That said, I'd be pretty nervous about Jrue's contract (goes up to $27m per, and for 4 more seasons!!!) and injury history... I suspect this is a no for contract reasons.

Also, DC has been playing pretty well and trade chatter suggests we can get a decent haul for him if we make him available. I guess I'd be looking at other deals with less financial commitment first...

winter_mute_13 wrote:

Super Powered wrote:Holiday
Ajinca
'20 1st (lotto protected)
4
Collison
Bogdanovic
Jefferson
'19 2nd [if settled w/BK]
'24 2nd

Holiday with Oladipo is an interesting pairing. That said, I'd be pretty nervous about Jrue's contract (goes up to $27m per, and for 4 more seasons!!!) and injury history... I suspect this is a no for contract reasons.

Also, DC has been playing pretty well and trade chatter suggests we can get a decent haul for him if we make him available. I guess I'd be looking at other deals with less financial commitment first...

Same. My biggest concern about Holiday is his contract. But the Pacers were reportedly interested in him last summer had he not come to terms with the Pelicans.

I'd prefer to wait until the offseason to use large chunks of cap space. Odds are we could get much more value for it if we wait and guys like Holiday just aren't worth it for us right now imo.

Ok so I posted this on the trade board, and decided to bring it here as well. Take a look:


Hornets give: Kemba Walker, Nic Batum, Malik Monk, Johnny O'Bryant
Hornets get: Will Barton, Emmanuel Mudiay, TJ Leaf, Al Jefferson, Bojan Bogdanovich, Nuggets 1st, Pacers 1st

Nuggets give: Will Barton, Emmanuel Mudiay, Richard Jefferson, Nuggets 1st
Nuggets get: Darren Collison, Malik Monk, Pacers 2nd x2

Pacers give: Al Jefferson, Bojan Bogdanovich, Darren Collison, TJ Leaf, Pacers 1st, 2nd x2
Pacers get: Kemba Walker, Nic Batum, Johnny O'Bryant, Richard Jefferson


The thing is, as terrible as it seems for the Pacers take on Batum's contract, if I didn't mess up the calculations, the Pacers should only have about 72m in guaranteed contracts for the '18-'19 season even after this trade, provided Thad and CoJo opt out as expected:

Batum: 24m
Oladipo: 21m
Kemba: 12m
Lance: 4.4m
Turner: 3.4m
Sabonis: 2.7m
Joe Young: 1.6m
Poythress 1.5m
Ike: 1.4m

Total: 72m


So here comes the sick part: assuming that the luxury cap is at around 100m, Pacers will still actually have around 28m available for use in this upcoming free agency. Theoretically, Pacers can throw something like 25m at someone like Lebron (if he would accept it), and round out the roster with cheap free agents with the remaining 3m, and STILL not have to pay much in tax.

At that point you'd be looking at a lineup that looks something like:

Kemba / Joe Young
Vic / Lance
Lebron / Batum
Domas / Poythress / cheap FA pick up
Myles / Ike / cheap FA pick up

Granted, 2nd unit is a bit weak especially up front, but that is a starting lineup that can legitimately go toe to toe with even the Warriors.

The tax would REALLY kick in the next season though, when Kemba, Myles, and Lance would all be under new contracts. Pacers would get hit badly by the tax nightmare for 2 years, before Batum's contract finally ends and things become more manageable. But hey, if it brings the Pacers their first championship...


EDIT: Point I'm trying to get across is not so much that Pacers should chase after LeBron, instead it's more about how taking on Batum's contract isn't as terrible as it seems

Topofthekey wrote:So here comes the sick part: assuming that the luxury cap is at around 100m, Pacers will still actually have around 28m available for use in this upcoming free agency. Theoretically, Pacers can throw something like 25m at someone like Lebron (if he would accept it), and round out the roster with cheap free agents with the remaining 3m, and STILL not have to pay much in tax.

LeBron is on $33m this year and has an option for $35m next season. He's not signing with the Pacers for $25m LOL. $25m is closer to the max for someone coming off rookie contract like Aaron Gordon (actually slightly higher than that, I think).

You're also confusing the salary cap with luxury tax threshold. It's true though that the projected salary cap is $101m next season, so we can spend up to that amount, plus a little more if we use exceptions.

In recent years, the Pacers have stayed significantly below the tax threshold, and I expect that to continue in future seasons. For example, the Pacers' payroll this season is at $93m, compared to the salary cap of $99m. Though it's possible we will take on more money before the end of the season.

Topofthekey wrote: Theoretically, Pacers can throw something like 25m at someone like Lebron

God I love RealGM. I can't see us taking on Batum without significant incentive (above and beyond Kemba), but the fit should be good.

Keep in mind that Turner and Sabonis both need to be paid in the coming years, so adding Batum and Walker to the books has very real consequences down the road.

jarryd3107 wrote:God I love RealGM. I can't see us taking on Batum without significant incentive (above and beyond Kemba), but the fit should be good.

Keep in mind that Turner and Sabonis both need to be paid in the coming years, so adding Batum and Walker to the books has very real consequences down the road.

I think I made the mistake of mentioning LeBron.

My point was, even with Batum and Kemba on the team's payroll, things should still be manageable. Rough picture of how the situation looks like with the main contracts in the next 4 years in this scenario:

Vic: 21m, 21m, 21m, 21m
Batum: 22m, 24m, 26m, 27m
Kemba: 12m, 12m, 28m?, 28m?
Myles: 2.6m, 3.4m, 20m?, 20m?
Domas: 2.6m, 2.7m, 3.5m, 20m?

Total: 60.2m, 63.1m, 98.5, 115m

No issue in the first two years. Things are a bit tight in the 3rd year, but should still be manageable with some cheap FA pickups. Depending on what's the luxury threshold, Pacers may still be able to escape paying the tax. It's in the 4th year where things look really bad. Things revert back to normal after that once Batum's contract runs it's course.

I don't doubt that taking on Batum's contract is going to severely limit the team's options. But if one year of tax is what it takes to build a perennial ECF team, is that not a fair price to pay?

Woj reporting the Pacers are willing to take salary for a FRP and would send out Jeffersons expiring.

Any interest in Meyers Leonard and Blazers FRP for Jefferson? Can throw in Vonleh too.

DusterBuster wrote:Woj reporting the Pacers are willing to take salary for a FRP and would send out Jeffersons expiring.

Any interest in Meyers Leonard and Blazers FRP for Jefferson? Can throw in Vonleh too.

Makes sense to me. Leonard is probably an upgrade from Jefferson as the 3rd center. Assuming the frp was a 2018 lottery protected.

DusterBuster wrote:Woj reporting the Pacers are willing to take salary for a FRP and would send out Jeffersons expiring.

Any interest in Meyers Leonard and Blazers FRP for Jefferson? Can throw in Vonleh too.

there has been Harkless mention on the trade board but Leonard has always been the stopper. Vonleh is an IU kid but what we need is a backup 3 so I don't think we'd want him thrown in on a 2-1 although if it expanded to a 3-2 perhaps he'd fit but I don't know who else we'd be willing to move for backups. Jefferson until recently has been viewed solely as a trading chip because of his small 2018-19 guarantee but he's suddenly proving to have value on the court. the FRP could entice but personally I'd want it less protected than the full lottery - perhaps top 5 or 10.

DusterBuster wrote:Woj reporting the Pacers are willing to take salary for a FRP and would send out Jeffersons expiring.

Any interest in Meyers Leonard and Blazers FRP for Jefferson? Can throw in Vonleh too.

Sign me up.

nice article in the star discussing merits of standing pat at deadline when could not get a first round pick in any deal.

https://www.indystar.com/story/sports/nba/pacers/insider/2018/02/08/what-pacers-standing-pat-trade-deadline-means-going-forward/320245002/