Shams: Pacers Moving toward Rebuild; Receptive to Trade Talks

[Tom White]

In related news, Donnie Walsh is still claiming he is not looking to trade Jalen Rose.

[Wizop]

I've seen several tweets to this effect. Myles = 2 firsts or 1 first and a young player. LeVert 1 first and a young player. the difference isn't logical as it suggests we wouldn't take 2 firsts for LeVert but would for Turner. personally, I'd prefer 2 firsts although KP is on record preferring young players to draft picks.

my questions is if you got a young player midseason, where would he play? now if you know Warren is history, a SF would be minutes, but where else? do you bench Lance? Oshea? Goga? Jackson? Sykes? Justin? Duarte? TJM? the 8th pick in the 2022 draft?

who other than Turner and LeVert are not in our long range plans?

[pacers33granger]

Aaron Gordon got a first and Hampton so thst should be the base line for a Myles trade imo.

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[Tom White]

my questions is if you got a young player midseason, where would he play? now if you know Warren is history, a SF would be minutes, but where else? do you bench Lance? Oshea? Goga? Jackson? Sykes? Justin? Duarte? TJM? the 8th pick in the 2022 draft?

who other than Turner and LeVert are not in our long range plans?

Prediction time, is it? Here goes.
It would be a very Pacers-like thing to decide to NOT re-sign Lance in the off-season, while hanging on to Brogdon, in addition to the others you listed.

As far as who to bench? I think sometimes we make the mistake of only comparing most of those guys to other players on our own team instead of looking at how they compare league wide. So, I have no problem with making moves which send any of them to the bench. Most of them are on the bench already, so.....maybe more of a move from second string to third string?

Long term plans? Other than keeping Duarte and Jackson around I wouldn't count on any of them long term. Heck, I don't count on them short term. Look at the record of this team. Could losing any of them actually hurt that much?

[Scoot McGroot]

I would imagine that Lance has basically earned a camp invite, at minimum, every year until the day he retires.

[Scoot McGroot]

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[Wizop]

It would be a very Pacers-like thing to decide to NOT re-sign Lance in the off-season, while hanging on to Brogdon, in addition to the others you listed.

I'm on team dump LeVert but I'm not yet on team dump Brogdon although I could get there. I think he's a competent starter on a reasonable contract but he's not a great ball handler. Lance brings a lot of skills Brogdon lacks. I'm comfortable with both Lance and Brogdon getting substantial minutes.

Longer term I think the need is a traditional PG with the speed to defend speed. so far I'm not seeing that player in the top 10 of this year's draft. perhaps that's part of the decision to seek to trade for another FRP as a bottom of the lottery pick could yield a PG.

[Tom White]

---snip---

A year or two years is far too long.

Seeing how he recently sold an Indy home, and has purchased an additional home in Atlanta, maybe we could work out something with the Hawks to allow him to be closer to his new home. Isn't he from that area originally anyway?

[Scoot McGroot]

---snip---

A year or two years is far too long.

Why? I’m not seeing it. He’s not a good fit as the sole ball handler, but isn’t that on us and roster construction rather than him? He was a really good fit next to Oladipo with each as a semi-efficient ball handler and bucket getter. He’s a terrible pairing with Levert, an inefficient ball handler and bucket getter.

Seeing how he recently sold an Indy home, and has purchased an additional home in Atlanta, maybe we could work out something with the Hawks to allow him to be closer to his new home. Isn't he from that area originally anyway?

I would never read into real estate. He sold his other Atlanta house to buy the current Atlanta house. He moved from Fishers/Geist to be closer to the team facility downtown.

[Tom White]

Why? I’m not seeing it. He’s not a good fit as the sole ball handler, but isn’t that on us and roster construction rather than him? He was a really good fit next to Oladipo with each as a semi-efficient ball handler and bucket getter. He’s a terrible pairing with Levert, an inefficient ball handler and bucket getter.

There are a number of things i don't like about Brogdon.

His ball handling, as you mentioned, is a starting point. He hangs on to the ball too much for my liking. He is not an accomplished passer at all, often missing opportunities to get the ball to others in a way that results in good shots or passing opportunities for them. He shows no energy at all on offense, unless it is for himself to try to drive to the basket.

He is not a good defender. He can't stay with guards/wings who have any degree of quickness, and I don't see him as a good help defender. You rarely see him get on the floor after loose balls. He shows about the same low level of energy on defense that he does on offense.

He is not a leader in any evident way. I don't see him cheering on, or celebrating good play from the other players. You see much more of that from almost every other player on the team than you do from him. He shows no enthusiasm for the game or his team mates. Total lack of joy in playing the game or being a part of something larger.

He misses so many games I expect to see his picture on the side of a milk carton. As I said in another thread, I am starting to question the legitimacy of some of his "injuries". Ever notice how you don't actually see most of those injuries happen? When most of the other guys get injured, you can see it. Many times as one of those "Oh no" sort of moments. Not with him.

He does shoot a decent percent from the floor, but I would expect that from a guy who controls the ball so much.

I just really struggle to find much at all about his game or persona that I like.

[Pacers Forever]

Why? I’m not seeing it. He’s not a good fit as the sole ball handler, but isn’t that on us and roster construction rather than him? He was a really good fit next to Oladipo with each as a semi-efficient ball handler and bucket getter. He’s a terrible pairing with Levert, an inefficient ball handler and bucket getter.

There are a number of things i don't like about Brogdon.

His ball handling, as you mentioned, is a starting point. He hangs on to the ball too much for my liking. He is not an accomplished passer at all, often missing opportunities to get the ball to others in a way that results in good shots or passing opportunities for them. He shows no energy at all on offense, unless it is for himself to try to drive to the basket.

He is not a good defender. He can't stay with guards/wings who have any degree of quickness, and I don't see him as a good help defender. You rarely see him get on the floor after loose balls. He shows about the same low level of energy on defense that he does on offense.

He is not a leader in any evident way. I don't see him cheering on, or celebrating good play from the other players. You see much more of that from almost every other player on the team than you do from him. He shows no enthusiasm for the game or his team mates. Total lack of joy in playing the game or being a part of something larger.

He misses so many games I expect to see his picture on the side of a milk carton. As I said in another thread, I am starting to question the legitimacy of some of his "injuries". Ever notice how you don't actually see most of those injuries happen? When most of the other guys get injured, you can see it. Many times as one of those "Oh no" sort of moments. Not with him.

He does shoot a decent percent from the floor, but I would expect that from a guy who controls the ball so much.

I just really struggle to find much at all about his game or persona that I like.

Damn, Tom you couldn’t have said that in a better way. Beautiful post. My exact sentiments of Brogdon as a Pacer.

Only thing I’ll add is that Scoot is correct he is a decent player in the right pairing/setting.

I think he naturally should be a shooting guard and not a point to maximize his talent.

Just not here Glass Joe errr, Malcolm.

[Pacers Forever]

Per Michael Scotto of Hoopshype, which

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Sounds mostly like he might just be taking other reports and repackaging them, though.

Personally I think those are wishfully high asking prices on both players and believe the Pacers will have to take less to move either player. However, I like the early attempt to get full value back.

I have short term memory due to older age lol but if I recall Pritchard usually gets fair trade value back ? Or does he ?

Sabonis and Victor for PG.
TJ Warren plus 3 Heat 2nds for cash to Pho.
LeVert for an injured Victor kind of depends on what LeVert brings.
2 seconds and Aaron for Isiah Jackson

Can’t think of anything else trade related.

[Wizop]

LeVert for an injured Victor kind of depends on what LeVert brings.

I think it's a win no matter what LeVert might bring as there was a very real possibility of losing Victor for nothing. LeVert is much better than nothing. in fact, he's a good player. the problem is his talents turn out not to mesh well with Brogdon's.

[boomershadow]

Levert is indeed a good player. Getting him rather than nothing was a smart move, but there are questions of fit and style and also whether he might be better suited as a sixth man on a good playoff team.

[Scoot McGroot]

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[boomershadow]

I will be jealous if Sacramento puts together the Turner/Ben Simmons front court pairing that I think would be cool.

[Scoot McGroot]

Jake Fischer listing Indy as having some interest in Jerami Grant. Nothing specific.

[boomershadow]

I do remember the last few major moves the Pacers made came out of nowhere and involved players not necessarily being talked about in the NBA rumor mill. So I'm taking all this "news" with a gigantic grain of salt.

[Scoot McGroot]

I do remember the last few major moves the Pacers made came out of nowhere and involved players not necessarily being talked about in the NBA rumor mill. So I'm taking all this "news" with a gigantic grain of salt.

Oh, agreed. I’m just posting it so everyone’s on the same page of what’s being reported.

Otherwise, why even have a forum for discussion, if not to talk about what’s being reported?

[Scoot McGroot]

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