Can the Pacers stay below the tax in 2025-26??

[Pacers Forever]

Nembhard, McConnell, RayJ, Quenton
Mathurin, Sheppard
Nesmith, Walker, Furphy
Siakam, Toppin, Freeman
Turner, Jackson, backup 5
(Haliburton inactive) Draft pick ?
Johnson retires
Bradley and Bryant not returning

Correct me if I’m wrong, but I don’t think we’ve seen any PG play from Quentin Jackson? He’s primarily played as a defensive 2 guard?

He’s listed as a point guard and played point guard for the Mad Ants until Ray J arrived. He’s listed as a guard on the Pacers website as is Ray J. So that’s why I listed him as a point guard option. Both have no guarantee of even being good enough to make the roster possibly other than a 2 way. So we’ll wait and see if the Pacers can acquire better guard talent once the Turner situation is resolved.

[nrbq]

Trade Siakam if Ty is out for the year????

I agree

[Scoot McGroot]

Boston has cut a TON of tax payments (almost $200m) the last 24 hours. Phoenix is talking of cutting some salary. The distribution payment is looking to be likely $10m or less. And with the first $11m or so over the tax being penalized at 1 to 1 and 1.25 to 1 rates, very affordable to go over. A little bit. It then gets to 3.5 to 1 penalties.

[Wizop]

Trade Siakam if Ty is out for the year????

I agree

Having had two days to think about it, I think we owe P the courtesy of asking him if he wants to be traded. I think he says no although were we to let Myles go he might want out too.

[JMaster5K]

I kinda want to see how this plays out?..... Was looking at the free agent PG's that are available this off season. Made me wonder,... Would Chris Paul sign a 1 year, or 1 + 1 contract to start on a contender again?... He's not all he used to be,... but the style we play fits with his; he uses the same skills that Tyrese does to force cross-matches then attack the match up he wants; and we are deep enough at PG that he wouldn't have to play 30 a night?

Would we be willing to use a Tyrese DPE to sign someone like Paul? even if it meant going into the tax? to try to keep the team competitive?

[Wizop]

Was looking at the free agent PG's that are available this off season.

we really only need a 3rd emergency PG. Nembhard and TJ should each get around 30 minutes with TJ getting them all at PG and Drew getting 18 at PG and another 12 playing SG alongside TJ. I think one of the guards who were on two-ways this season move up to be the 3rd PG - unless pick 54 is a PG rather than a C.

[JMaster5K]

Was looking at the free agent PG's that are available this off season.

we really only need a 3rd emergency PG. Nembhard and TJ should each get around 30 minutes with TJ getting them all at PG and Drew getting 18 at PG and another 12 playing SG alongside TJ. I think one of the guards who were on two-ways this season move up to be the 3rd PG - unless pick 54 is a PG rather than a C.

Yeah,... that's why I was looking,... to see who might be available on the cheap.

But that's when I saw CP3, his FA status, and what he played for last year with the Spurs?..... Just kinda floating it out there?... Maybe there's an older veteran that could help the Pacers stay at that contender level until Tyrese returns?.... Even if it's only 20 minutes a night?....

I was really looking to see if there were any min contract guys that could be promising,... but?.... o0

[Scoot McGroot]

I kinda want to see how this plays out?..... Was looking at the free agent PG's that are available this off season. Made me wonder,... Would Chris Paul sign a 1 year, or 1 + 1 contract to start on a contender again?... He's not all he used to be,... but the style we play fits with his; he uses the same skills that Tyrese does to force cross-matches then attack the match up he wants; and we are deep enough at PG that he wouldn't have to play 30 a night?

Would we be willing to use a Tyrese DPE to sign someone like Paul? even if it meant going into the tax? to try to keep the team competitive?

Use the chart in this tweet (ignore the Celtics stuff )


I doubt we do? This year, the first roughly $6m of tax money is penalized at a $1-$1 ratio, while the next almost $6m is penalized at $1.25-$1. But then, the next almost $6m is penalized at $3.5-$1, which is where any DPE salary would be penalized if we keep Obi/Math. That seems a heavy burden?

[Scoot McGroot]

I kinda want to see how this plays out?..... Was looking at the free agent PG's that are available this off season. Made me wonder,... Would Chris Paul sign a 1 year, or 1 + 1 contract to start on a contender again?... He's not all he used to be,... but the style we play fits with his; he uses the same skills that Tyrese does to force cross-matches then attack the match up he wants; and we are deep enough at PG that he wouldn't have to play 30 a night?

Would we be willing to use a Tyrese DPE to sign someone like Paul? even if it meant going into the tax? to try to keep the team competitive?

Use the chart in this tweet (ignore the Celtics stuff )


I doubt we do? This year, the first roughly $6m of tax money is penalized at a $1-$1 ratio, while the next almost $6m is penalized at $1.25-$1. But then, the next almost $6m is penalized at $3.5-$1, which is where any DPE salary would be penalized if we keep Obi/Math. That seems a heavy burden?

Yikes, tweet didn't link.

Read on Twitter

[Scoot McGroot]

Was looking at the free agent PG's that are available this off season.

we really only need a 3rd emergency PG. Nembhard and TJ should each get around 30 minutes with TJ getting them all at PG and Drew getting 18 at PG and another 12 playing SG alongside TJ. I think one of the guards who were on two-ways this season move up to be the 3rd PG - unless pick 54 is a PG rather than a C.

Yeah,... that's why I was looking,... to see who might be available on the cheap.

But that's when I saw CP3, his FA status, and what he played for last year with the Spurs?..... Just kinda floating it out there?... Maybe there's an older veteran that could help the Pacers stay at that contender level until Tyrese returns?.... Even if it's only 20 minutes a night?....

I was really looking to see if there were any min contract guys that could be promising,... but?.... o0

I'd target Tyus Jones and Monte Morris from Phoenix. Both pass first PG's that play a low turnover style, and played under vet minimum's last year.

[JMaster5K]

I kinda want to see how this plays out?..... Was looking at the free agent PG's that are available this off season. Made me wonder,... Would Chris Paul sign a 1 year, or 1 + 1 contract to start on a contender again?... He's not all he used to be,... but the style we play fits with his; he uses the same skills that Tyrese does to force cross-matches then attack the match up he wants; and we are deep enough at PG that he wouldn't have to play 30 a night?

Would we be willing to use a Tyrese DPE to sign someone like Paul? even if it meant going into the tax? to try to keep the team competitive?

Use the chart in this tweet (ignore the Celtics stuff )


I doubt we do? This year, the first roughly $6m of tax money is penalized at a $1-$1 ratio, while the next almost $6m is penalized at $1.25-$1. But then, the next almost $6m is penalized at $3.5-$1, which is where any DPE salary would be penalized if we keep Obi/Math. That seems a heavy burden?

Yikes, tweet didn't link.

Read on Twitter

Thanks Scoot! very helpful !!

[JMaster5K]

we really only need a 3rd emergency PG. Nembhard and TJ should each get around 30 minutes with TJ getting them all at PG and Drew getting 18 at PG and another 12 playing SG alongside TJ. I think one of the guards who were on two-ways this season move up to be the 3rd PG - unless pick 54 is a PG rather than a C.

Yeah,... that's why I was looking,... to see who might be available on the cheap.

But that's when I saw CP3, his FA status, and what he played for last year with the Spurs?..... Just kinda floating it out there?... Maybe there's an older veteran that could help the Pacers stay at that contender level until Tyrese returns?.... Even if it's only 20 minutes a night?....

I was really looking to see if there were any min contract guys that could be promising,... but?.... o0

I'd target Tyus Jones and Monte Morris from Phoenix. Both pass first PG's that play a low turnover style, and played under vet minimum's last year.

Yeah,... Tyus Jones & Tre Jones were on my list,.... I haven't looked at Morris though,.. thanks!

[Scoot McGroot]

Use the chart in this tweet (ignore the Celtics stuff )


I doubt we do? This year, the first roughly $6m of tax money is penalized at a $1-$1 ratio, while the next almost $6m is penalized at $1.25-$1. But then, the next almost $6m is penalized at $3.5-$1, which is where any DPE salary would be penalized if we keep Obi/Math. That seems a heavy burden?

Yikes, tweet didn't link.

Read on Twitter

Thanks Scoot! very helpful !!

Yeah, I think I see Indy maxing out at that $11.37m over the tax line, for a total penalty of $12.8m in taxes. I do not see them crossing that line into $3.5 times penalty bracket.

[JMaster5K]

Yikes, tweet didn't link.

Read on Twitter

Thanks Scoot! very helpful !!

Yeah, I think I see Indy maxing out at that $11.37m over the tax line, for a total penalty of $12.8m in taxes. I do not see them crossing that line into $3.5 times penalty bracket.

Agreed,... they likely wouldn't go to 3.5 even if Tyrese was healthy,... and to be fair wouldn't really need to, to bring the team back,... but with Tyrese out? do you think they will have the same willingness to go into the tax? Particularly with a Mathurin extension sitting in the wings,... and with it unclear how competitive the 25-26 team will be?...

[Helsbyte]

Thanks Scoot! very helpful !!

Yeah, I think I see Indy maxing out at that $11.37m over the tax line, for a total penalty of $12.8m in taxes. I do not see them crossing that line into $3.5 times penalty bracket.

Agreed,... they likely wouldn't go to 3.5 even if Tyrese was healthy,... and to be fair wouldn't really need to, to bring the team back,... but with Tyrese out? do you think they will have the same willingness to go into the tax? Particularly with a Mathurin extension sitting in the wings,... and with it unclear how competitive the 25-26 team will be?...

The Mathurin extension is the problem. He doesn't fit with Haliburton all that well. If he plays well next year and he should with more usage that extension number goes up and we won't be able to match it. I just don't realistically see a path for him in Indiana. I know some of you think he is better than Nesmith and I promise you Nesmith is the better fit in our line up.

[JMaster5K]

Yeah, I think I see Indy maxing out at that $11.37m over the tax line, for a total penalty of $12.8m in taxes. I do not see them crossing that line into $3.5 times penalty bracket.

Agreed,... they likely wouldn't go to 3.5 even if Tyrese was healthy,... and to be fair wouldn't really need to, to bring the team back,... but with Tyrese out? do you think they will have the same willingness to go into the tax? Particularly with a Mathurin extension sitting in the wings,... and with it unclear how competitive the 25-26 team will be?...

The Mathurin extension is the problem. He doesn't fit with Haliburton all that well. If he plays well next year and he should with more usage that extension number goes up and we won't be able to match it. I just don't realistically see a path for him in Indiana. I know some of you think he is better than Nesmith and I promise you Nesmith is the better fit in our line up.

That is assuming of course that we keep him,.... If he plays out next year, he would raise his value around the league and open other options for both the team and himself.

[GreatBuchinsky]

Agreed,... they likely wouldn't go to 3.5 even if Tyrese was healthy,... and to be fair wouldn't really need to, to bring the team back,... but with Tyrese out? do you think they will have the same willingness to go into the tax? Particularly with a Mathurin extension sitting in the wings,... and with it unclear how competitive the 25-26 team will be?...

The Mathurin extension is the problem. He doesn't fit with Haliburton all that well. If he plays well next year and he should with more usage that extension number goes up and we won't be able to match it. I just don't realistically see a path for him in Indiana. I know some of you think he is better than Nesmith and I promise you Nesmith is the better fit in our line up.

That is assuming of course that we keep him,.... If he plays out next year, he would raise his value around the league and open other options for both the team and himself.

I am in the camp of absolutely not trading Mathurin this summer for several reasons.

1. He has never been a great fit next to Hali BUT things have changed. Hali is down with one of the worst injuries in sports. Best case he is out for a year, more likely it will be pushing longer. Then how long after that until he is 100% if ever? The question now is how does Mathurin fit next to Nembhard and Nesmith?

2. Even if we are dead set on trading him why wouldn’t we wait until closer to the trade deadline? Assuming Mathurin starts he’s probably going to be averaging 20+ game and his value should be higher at that point.

3. This new apron environment is significantly limiting the teams with space in the summer. Similar to the Turner situation now…there is nobody with space offering him $30m a year so why would we need to? Unlike Turner, Mathurin going to be restricted. Nets are probably the only team with a ton of space next summer so they would likely need to work with us and I’m sure we could get some type of picks/young player package to trade into their space if he is truly their guy next summer.

[Scoot McGroot]

The Mathurin extension is the problem. He doesn't fit with Haliburton all that well. If he plays well next year and he should with more usage that extension number goes up and we won't be able to match it. I just don't realistically see a path for him in Indiana. I know some of you think he is better than Nesmith and I promise you Nesmith is the better fit in our line up.

That is assuming of course that we keep him,.... If he plays out next year, he would raise his value around the league and open other options for both the team and himself.

I am in the camp of absolutely not trading Mathurin this summer for several reasons.

1. He has never been a great fit next to Hali BUT things have changed. Hali is down with one of the worst injuries in sports. Best case he is out for a year, more likely it will be pushing longer. Then how long after that until he is 100% if ever? The question now is how does Mathurin fit next to Nembhard and Nesmith?

So long as Haliburton sits the entirety of next season, he'll have given his achilles something like 540 days to rest/recover from surgery, which would be one of the longest "rest/recovery" periods of any NBA player from this injury. And, recoveries from this injury have gotten better and better over the last decade with no research and rehab practices. Plus, Hali's game has never been based on "athleticism". It's almost all vision and smarts.

2. Even if we are dead set on trading him why wouldn’t we wait until closer to the trade deadline? Assuming Mathurin starts he’s probably going to be averaging 20+ game and his value should be higher at that point.

Even if Bennedict averages 20+, his value likely won't rise too much because a team will only have him for the last 25 games and maybe a playoff run, and then have to pay him a major salary. Generally, guys return more value in the offseason so a team can acclimate them to the locker room and playbook in training camp, and have the chance to try and negotiate an extension early with the rookie contract guys, as they can't negotiate a new deal once the season starts.

3. This new apron environment is significantly limiting the teams with space in the summer. Similar to the Turner situation now…there is nobody with space offering him $30m a year so why would we need to? Unlike Turner, Mathurin going to be restricted. Nets are probably the only team with a ton of space next summer so they would likely need to work with us and I’m sure we could get some type of picks/young player package to trade into their space if he is truly their guy next summer.

There's actually quite a few teams that project as major cap space for next year. This year there's basically just Brooklyn. And, of course, a lot could change over this next season that we could see more or less based on moves.

[JMaster5K]

The Mathurin extension is the problem. He doesn't fit with Haliburton all that well. If he plays well next year and he should with more usage that extension number goes up and we won't be able to match it. I just don't realistically see a path for him in Indiana. I know some of you think he is better than Nesmith and I promise you Nesmith is the better fit in our line up.

That is assuming of course that we keep him,.... If he plays out next year, he would raise his value around the league and open other options for both the team and himself.

I am in the camp of absolutely not trading Mathurin this summer for several reasons.

1. He has never been a great fit next to Hali BUT things have changed. Hali is down with one of the worst injuries in sports. Best case he is out for a year, more likely it will be pushing longer. Then how long after that until he is 100% if ever? The question now is how does Mathurin fit next to Nembhard and Nesmith?

2. Even if we are dead set on trading him why wouldn’t we wait until closer to the trade deadline? Assuming Mathurin starts he’s probably going to be averaging 20+ game and his value should be higher at that point.

3. This new apron environment is significantly limiting the teams with space in the summer. Similar to the Turner situation now…there is nobody with space offering him $30m a year so why would we need to? Unlike Turner, Mathurin going to be restricted. Nets are probably the only team with a ton of space next summer so they would likely need to work with us and I’m sure we could get some type of picks/young player package to trade into their space if he is truly their guy next summer.

Those are exactly the reasons I mentioned him 'playing out' next year & raising his value,...

[Wizop]

I think you have to ask Siakam if he wants to be traded but if he says no I think we roll with

Nembhard, McConnell, RayJ?, (Haliburton inactive)
Mathurin, Sheppard
Nesmith, Walker, Furphy
Siakam, Toppin
Turner, Jackson, Bryant?, Johnson?

Can Johnson become a coach? Do Bryant or Bradley come back? Will freeman or Q deserve more than a 2-way? If we get a center or a poing guard at 54 will he get a roster spot or a two-way?

now that we have two seconds I think you have to find a spot for pick 38 on the 15 man roster. I wouldn't force the position although there are decisions to be made at 3rd PG and 2nd and 3rd C