Is it too early to look at the lottery?

[Pacers Forever]

Turner would be easy to replace if we had 4 strong HEALTHY players executing the offense in Haliburton, Mathurin, Nesmith, and Siakam between themselves.

The Lakers are a playoff team with LeBron, friends, and a no name center.
Boston had Tatum, Holiday, Brown, and the often hurt Porzingis or the old guy.
Warriors really haven’t had a good center for years now.

My point is that teams can play through their stars and only use the center for defense, rebounding, and passing to draw the defense in then kick it out to the shooters. I’m not denying that Turner was good, but he’s not worth the money he’s getting unless the Pacers could have given both Siakam and Haliburton a bit less to fit Turner under the salary cap. No I’m still not trading Siakam.

[Wizop]

I think the new reality is teams want to stay under the second apron now rather than under the cap.

[basketballwacko2]

Wow is this Pacers team the worst we've ever seen?

[basketballwacko2]

Turner would be easy to replace if we had 4 strong HEALTHY players executing the offense in Haliburton, Mathurin, Nesmith, and Siakam between themselves.

The Lakers are a playoff team with LeBron, friends, and a no name center.
Boston had Tatum, Holiday, Brown, and the often hurt Porzingis or the old guy.
Warriors really haven’t had a good center for years now.

My point is that teams can play through their stars and only use the center for defense, rebounding, and passing to draw the defense in then kick it out to the shooters. I’m not denying that Turner was good, but he’s not worth the money he’s getting unless the Pacers could have given both Siakam and Haliburton a bit less to fit Turner under the salary cap. No I’m still not trading Siakam.

The Lakers have LBJ and now Luka. The Celtics have two really good players in Brown and Tatum with Holiday, White and Porzingis, Horford. The Pacers have a deep team with Haliburton and Siakam and several good players.

You cite two teams with 2 great players but the Pacers have 2 really good players and a good cast of supporters. Turner would be the best center on either team. There is no one to take his place with the Pacers, lost the shot blocking, shooting and defense he gave. Now we have Haliburton out, and a flurry of injuries has crippled the team.

I'd do a mini rebuild at the deadline, trade Siakam and maybe Mathurin if we get him back to showcase him. IDK who they should trade with and what they might get, but there is an opportunity to do something like Utah did but now crash the team completely for 2026-27.

[Wizop]

I watched some BYU last night and was underwhelmed.

[JMaster5K]

I watched some BYU last night and was underwhelmed.

That's been the general opinion from the amateur scouts all summer on AJ?... He seems to have fallen behind both Peterson and Boozer. A couple of the mock draft guys have others ahead of him as well?

[Wizop]

I watched some BYU last night and was underwhelmed.

That's been the general opinion from the amateur scouts all summer on AJ?... He seems to have fallen behind both Peterson and Boozer. A couple of the mock draft guys have others ahead of him as well?

I may have stopped watching too soon.

Watch on YouTube

[JMaster5K]

I watched some BYU last night and was underwhelmed.

That's been the general opinion from the amateur scouts all summer on AJ?... He seems to have fallen behind both Peterson and Boozer. A couple of the mock draft guys have others ahead of him as well?

I may have stopped watching too soon.

Watch on YouTube

Maybe,... but he's been doing that now since high school. He has flashes, and he will have whole parts of the team schedule where he looks like a monster. But as Vecenie said 3/4? weeks ago,... they aren't seeing anything new from AJ. He just overpowers everyone, when he can. (which right now is usually) But, he hasn't improved any of the holes in his game? He hasn't shown any growth in his vision on court, or understanding & reading the game? He hasn't really improved over the last year? Peterson and Boozer have both done all those things,... and Cameron was already at an NBA level for reading & understanding the game.

I was a big fan of AJ at #1 in June 2026,... but based on what I saw this summer, and what I'm seeing now? Gotta put Peterson & Boozer ahead of him,... sadly. He's a legit, Elite NBA athlete in a 6'9" still growing body, with length, top-elite quickness,... He is literally a walking bucket, that probably could score on 85% of the NBA right now,... but 2.0 Ast, with 1.8 TO's, .3 bpg, & .8 spg? Playing at BYU with an NBA, open floor, passing game offense? in 30 minutes a night? shooting .652 from the line?

Yeah,... I get that he's a freshman, and very young. The summer games I saw him in were jaw-dropping,... but if he doesn't begin showing that he is, and is able, to work on his game? He wouldn't be the first high draft pick, elite athlete & end up in Europe? (Jabari Parker anyone?....)

With some of the progress a few others at the top of this draft are showing,... (Caleb Wilson, Tounde Yesouffou, Mikel Brown, Bennet Stirtz) They aren't better players than AJ,... they are just showing that their games are way better than they were at the start of last summer. AJ has the same game he's had for the last 18 months?

Who knows?.... Again, this is another 'wait & see',... LOL But, frankly,... if we have a top 3 pick in the upcoming draft? this is a good problem to have.

[Scoot McGroot]

Jabari Parker is one of those guys that, yes he had severe injuries, could have made a great career in the NBA if not for his steadfast belief that teams paid him to play offense and not defense.

[JMaster5K]

Jabari Parker is one of those guys that, yes he had severe injuries, could have made a great career in the NBA if not for his steadfast belief that teams paid him to play offense and not defense.

and only iso-offense,.....

[Wizop]

Lots of good looking freshmen. Ament is interesting

[basketballwacko2]

Almost 1/4 of the way through the season this is the worst Pacers team I've seen since the early days of the NBA. They beat the equally hapless Wizards tonight to earn their 3rd win. Blame it on injuries it doesn't matter they will be lucky to win 20 games. I don't normally say this but just tank it!

I'm for a quick and nasty rebuild. I won't be shocked if there is a major trade involving the Pacers by the deadline.

[Wizop]

Almost 1/4 of the way through the season this is the worst Pacers team I've seen since the early days of the NBA. They beat the equally hapless Wizards tonight to earn their 3rd win. Blame it on injuries it doesn't matter they will be lucky to win 20 games. I don't normally say this but just tank it!

I'm for a quick and nasty rebuild. I won't be shocked if there is a major trade involving the Pacers by the deadline.

We're old enough to remember when they put curtains up to hide the empty upper deck at MSA. I can't imagine us making a trade to get worse unless it's a Mathurin deal. Conversely, I definitely don't want to trade to win more this year as I really like what I see at the top of the draft. We won't even need luck in the lottery to get a difference maker.

[JMaster5K]

Almost 1/4 of the way through the season this is the worst Pacers team I've seen since the early days of the NBA. They beat the equally hapless Wizards tonight to earn their 3rd win. Blame it on injuries it doesn't matter they will be lucky to win 20 games. I don't normally say this but just tank it!

I'm for a quick and nasty rebuild. I won't be shocked if there is a major trade involving the Pacers by the deadline.

We're old enough to remember when they put curtains up to hide the empty upper deck at MSA. I can't imagine us making a trade to get worse unless it's a Mathurin deal. Conversely, I definitely don't want to trade to win more this year as I really like what I see at the top of the draft. We won't even need luck in the lottery to get a difference maker.

82-83 = 20 wins; 83-84 = 26 wins; 84-85 = 22 wins; 85-86 = 26 wins,... old enough to remember an exhausted, sweat-drenched Steve Stipanovich barely able to speak in a post game interview when they left everything on the floor, & lost another game by double digits.

The difference,... that team had no hope. They had nothing to look forward to. From all accounts, Tyrese is rehabbing well, and should be back next season healthy. He will need to shake the rust off,... but what made him so good before the injury, should still make him effective when he returns. We, at least, have hope.

(P.S. that hope gets even bigger with a top pick in this years loaded draft.)

[basketballwacko2]

Almost 1/4 of the way through the season this is the worst Pacers team I've seen since the early days of the NBA. They beat the equally hapless Wizards tonight to earn their 3rd win. Blame it on injuries it doesn't matter they will be lucky to win 20 games. I don't normally say this but just tank it!

I'm for a quick and nasty rebuild. I won't be shocked if there is a major trade involving the Pacers by the deadline.

We're old enough to remember when they put curtains up to hide the empty upper deck at MSA. I can't imagine us making a trade to get worse unless it's a Mathurin deal. Conversely, I definitely don't want to trade to win more this year as I really like what I see at the top of the draft. We won't even need luck in the lottery to get a difference maker.

82-83 = 20 wins; 83-84 = 26 wins; 84-85 = 22 wins; 85-86 = 26 wins,... old enough to remember an exhausted, sweat-drenched Steve Stipanovich barely able to speak in a post game interview when they left everything on the floor, & lost another game by double digits.

The difference,... that team had no hope. They had nothing to look forward to. From all accounts, Tyrese is rehabbing well, and should be back next season healthy. He will need to shake the rust off,... but what made him so good before the injury, should still make him effective when he returns. We, at least, have hope.

(P.S. that hope gets even bigger with a top pick in this years loaded draft.)

This is for you and Wizop. I do remember the games with the curtains. I remember buying a $5 ticket and moving down the empty seats in the lower levels for the 2nd half because MSA was half empty. I also remember Stipo, and Kellogg and Herb Williams. The Pacers had a promising team at one time and injuries wrecked it, Stipo and Kellogg both ended early due to knee injuries. Now modern medical procedures fix things that would end a players playing days. Tyrese will come back and should be pretty close to the player he was before the injury.

But if you guys think all we have to do is get Haliburton back and run the same team out there next season. Without Turner and with some rookie center or one of these guys we have now at center, and we're gonna win games and repeat the 2025 finals run. You need to think again. Other teams in the East are getting better while we stand pat, and add a rookie and or some free agent center. The team must be proactive and look to get better or inertia will pull them backwards. Detroit and Toronto are looking better and Miami, Cleveland, NYK and Atlanta all in the way and don't forget Boston will be back next year with Tatum rehabbing his Achilles.

We're talking about trading Mathurin who has looked really good in a bigger role at 23 because he's gonna want to be paid $25-30 million and we can't go into the tax. We have 2 players making $50 million a year and Siakam is turning 32 in April 2026. I'd say we'd be better off getting a haul from trading Siakam and paying Mathurin. We also have Nembhard at $18 million and Toppin at $14 million with Nesmith and TJ around $10-11 million. IF the current winning or lack of continues they may well get a top 4 pick and that's another $10 million contract.

Can the Pacers stay out of the tax and pay these guys? I'm saying not with 2 $50 million contracts at the top. And the Pacers need to stay out of the tax for a number of reasons, unless they are going to the finals. As I said our East competitors have gotten a lot better. Our deep team, run your legs off style might work against the Knicks or Sixers but can we keep wear out Atlanta or Detroit if they are fully healthy or Boston?

I know this is not a popular idea, but I think if they are going to stay out of the tax they should restructure the payroll and that has to start at the top. They should explore trading Siakam for expiring salary, players in their rookie contracts or signed to team friendly deals and 2-3 #1 picks.

I'll acknowledge that Mathurin presents and line up issue, at his size he should be a SG, but if TH comes back next season and we have Nembhard as a starting guard with Nesmith playing SF it looks like Mathurin would be a 6th man. The team is already looking at a 3 guard starting line up, because at 6'6'' Nesmith looks more like a big guard to me. That makes Mathurin "redundant" so the answer is hard to pin down.

If you trade Siakam for a matching short salary package and future picks, and sign Mathurin to $25 million a year, you create a small ball team with too many guys in the 6'5'' to 6'6'' range and not enough 6'8'' to 6'10'' ish guys.

After much consternation and analysis on this I come to a two step process on this. I'm not for a Philly style multi year tank-a-thon but to get back to the finals they are gonna have to get better not just come back in 2026-27 with the same team and a "Turner replacement."

Step one would be to trade Siakam now while his value is at it's highest, and clear out part of that $50 million salary that's coming up for a 32 yr old. Then sign Mathurin to $25 million. Come back in 2026-27 with a top draft pick and maybe a better center option or rotation. The 2nd step would then be to trade Mathurin after he's on the new contract in the 2027 off season. They would need to play some kind of 3 guard rotation with Haliburton, Nembhard and Mathurin. Admittedly this 2026-27 team may not be great or even make the East conf finals, but 2027 team could be young, deep and good, and under the tax.

I know that is a complex idea with no specific trade idea's for either step. Not knowing what teams who are contenders right now would be willing to give up to get a Pascal Siakam makes it rough to predict. I'm sure some of the contenders don't have the draft picks or young players to get me to pull the trigger. LAL, LAC, Minn, Knicks, Bucks, GSW or Denver don't have the picks or pieces to match salary. And doing a trade in mid season is tough because you have to have the roster spots to make the move. 4 for 1 is really hard to pull off.

I do think something is gonna happen. But they may just slide to the off season and address it then, hopefully with a top 3 draft pick.

[Wizop]

I see the Mathurin problem as position not dollars so we agree there. Nesmith can't be traded until the summer because he signed an extension so that's not a way to open up the SF at the deadline. Besides I see several really big SFs in the top 6 of the draft.

We just won back to back with Huf playing more. Siakam hit the game winner tonight. Stay tuned

[JMaster5K]

I see the Mathurin problem as position not dollars so we agree there. Nesmith can't be traded until the summer because he signed an extension so that's not a way to open up the SF at the deadline. Besides I see several really big SFs in the top 6 of the draft.

We just won back to back with Huf playing more. Siakam hit the game winner tonight. Stay tuned

Nesmith, at 11M this year & next, isn't going to open cap room in the short run. His extension could create some cap issues, but that doesn't kick in until 27-28.

Mathurin is big enough/strong enough to play as a SF in a traditional lineup. But, as you say, he is on the small side. I agree that the issue with Benn is positional fit. He can play from the wing on offense, but if you ask him to defend from the wing, off-ball, from the corners (defending a SF), that's his worst spot on the floor regardless of size/matchup.

I don't think the idea of trading Siakim, or Mathurin, or Walker is unpopular. (or any combination of them, or others on the team)?... It's probably more likely than us simply standing pat? But, I don't think anything can or will happen until after 15 December when the first round of recent signees becomes available for trade.

Unfortunately, we have a team that was built to win this year,... that isn't going to win this year. Things are going to change, just when? and to what extent? I for 1, don't think Tyrese returning is going to instantly put us back in ECF. I think it will make us competitive for a playoff spot. What it will do, is make us better than this year. It does provide us hope that we will, once again, in the short term be able to build/field a team that is a contender & not remain an every year punching bag.

[basketballwacko2]

I see the Mathurin problem as position not dollars so we agree there. Nesmith can't be traded until the summer because he signed an extension so that's not a way to open up the SF at the deadline. Besides I see several really big SFs in the top 6 of the draft.

We just won back to back with Huf playing more. Siakam hit the game winner tonight. Stay tuned

The position issue is what I was getting at being the problem with the current players. Do you want to pay Mathurin $25 million to be the 6th man? Most teams wouldn't want to, and I like Nesmith for what he can do on defense an his 3pt shot. He's also bigger than Mathurin and better suited to play the SF. I'd like to see a bigger SF in the draft and then Nesmith can rotate between SF and SG. I think Huff could be a very good backup center unless he's able to play the way he has the last 4-5 games His 3 pt shot was terrible earlier in the season but I've noticed he's hitting a better percentage recently. Plus Huff has been blocking a lot of shots.

Like I said, I won't be shocked to see a major or semi major trade involving the Pacers especially if they are still losing so many games in 2 months.

[basketballwacko2]

I see the Mathurin problem as position not dollars so we agree there. Nesmith can't be traded until the summer because he signed an extension so that's not a way to open up the SF at the deadline. Besides I see several really big SFs in the top 6 of the draft.

We just won back to back with Huf playing more. Siakam hit the game winner tonight. Stay tuned

So a question for you and JMaster5K if you're trading Mathurin what do you want for him? And who do you think the potential trading partners are?

[Wizop]

I see the Mathurin problem as position not dollars so we agree there. Nesmith can't be traded until the summer because he signed an extension so that's not a way to open up the SF at the deadline. Besides I see several really big SFs in the top 6 of the draft.

We just won back to back with Huf playing more. Siakam hit the game winner tonight. Stay tuned

So a question for you and JMaster5K if you're trading Mathurin what do you want for him? And who do you think the potential trading partners are?

I haven't been watching our games this year, let alone other teams' games - but the trading partners for Mathurin would be the teams that have a need for a starting SG. Western Conference teams would be preferred. The target does not have to be a player that helps us win this year.