2021 Free Agency & Off-season

[Wizop]

McGinnes for English
Tom Owens for an unprotected 1st round pick
Trading down to take Rick Robey rather thank taking Larry Bird.

McGinnis trade was negotiated by Donnie Walsh . . . For Denver. Pacers were going to make playoffs after a long absence and thought George would make a difference. Turned out he was old and the deal fractured the locker room.

I don't remember whether the practice of protecting future picks was invented when the Owen deal was made. The pick was several years in the future which was a way to discount value back then.

I agree on Bird although he stayed in college for another year which prompted a rule change. It was a time when team had no money and fans would have accepted waiting a year for local star and team didn't have to admit they were saving money.

Bottom line, I also do not want to trade for a 30 something with a superstar reputation.

Sent from my phone.

[Scoot McGroot]

I’m guessing the Pacers will not make a huge move this year and use this upcoming season to evaluate what they have in the current players instead of breaking up the team for a rebuild around a superstar acquisition. This could even mean not resigning McConnell and McDermott.

If the Pacers want to sign a free agent there’s more options available in 2022 and at that time Warren, Lamb, Bitadze, Sumner, and Martin are all listed as free agents for the Pacers also.

To realistically ascertain usable cap space, we would have to not retain McDermott or McConnell or not sign anyone to a multi year deal this year, and also let all those players go. Bitadze won’t be a free agent next year unless we decline his option before this upcoming season starts, which is highly unlikely. I would not plan on cap space next year unless we make a major change of direction this year and trade off current players.

I agree Westbrook would cost too much in assets. Lillard is rumored to be unhappy with Billups hiring but I imagine he wouldn’t want to play here and would cost even more in assets from proposed trade scenarios being floated around currently.

For me, it’s more a question of what level of team is left over after Indy would pay proper value for Lillard…..would it be any better than the current Portland roster that Lillard has questions about?

[Topofthekey]

I’m guessing the Pacers will not make a huge move this year and use this upcoming season to evaluate what they have in the current players instead of breaking up the team for a rebuild around a superstar acquisition. This could even mean not resigning McConnell and McDermott.

If the Pacers want to sign a free agent there’s more options available in 2022 and at that time Warren, Lamb, Bitadze, Sumner, and Martin are all listed as free agents for the Pacers also.

To realistically ascertain usable cap space, we would have to not retain McDermott or McConnell or not sign anyone to a multi year deal this year, and also let all those players go. Bitadze won’t be a free agent next year unless we decline his option before this upcoming season starts, which is highly unlikely. I would not plan on cap space next year unless we make a major change of direction this year and trade off current players.

I agree Westbrook would cost too much in assets. Lillard is rumored to be unhappy with Billups hiring but I imagine he wouldn’t want to play here and would cost even more in assets from proposed trade scenarios being floated around currently.

For me, it’s more a question of what level of team is left over after Indy would pay proper value for Lillard…..would it be any better than the current Portland roster that Lillard has questions about?

If Lillard becomes available, there's going to be a bidding war for him

I think 76ers will offer Simmons and Celtics will offer Brown

It'll be tough to beat those offers, but I suppose our offer will be built around Domas + Brogdon as the centerpiece, and I still think Blazers go with Simmons or Brown

But let's say Blazers accept if we throw enough value into the trade, say LeVert + #13 + future picks

We'll end up with

Myles, Goga
Warren, Brissett
Doug, Justin
Sumner, Lamb, Aaron
Lillard, TJ, Stanley

It's not bad, at least it's a deeper team than what Lillard had on the Blazers, and Myles is probably the difference maker

But yes, winning a bidding war for someone like Lillard will be tough, it's the reason why I am more open to trading for someone like Westbrook, due to the assumption that the price tag is significantly lower

That, or acquiring someone who could be on the verge of stardom, like Lavine or Sexton, if the price is right

[Wizop]

From the Star:

They have the No. 13 pick in the draft, but they'll have to decide if they want to keep another young player to develop on a 34-38 team from last season that missed the playoffs. If the answer is yes, which will be difficult on a team loaded with play-now veterans such as Domantas Sabonis, Malcolm Brogdon, T.J. Warren, Myles Turner, Jeremy Lamb and Justin Holiday, then what happens with Edmond Sumner, Goga Bitadze, Aaron Holiday, Kelan Martin, Oshae Brissett and Cassius Stanley?

There's not going to be enough room for everyone.

Is Carlisle/Doyle saying we should trade the pick? I hope not although maybe it just means Lamb or more of our free agents than we expect will be let loose.

I've been assuming our FRP takes Sampson's spot. Cassius and a 2RP get two ways and play mostly in Fort Wayne and if we don't see pick 60 we stash him in Europe. another spot could be created by moving Lamb or not resigning Doug.

on reflection I'm going to put this on Doyle as every team plays 10 or few players most nights from a group of 17. no one has "room" for the full roster. isn't the short answer to lack of playing time for everyone competition?

[Tom White]

Is Carlisle/Doyle saying we should trade the pick? I hope not although maybe it just means Lamb or more of our free agents than we expect will be let loose.

I've been assuming our FRP takes Sampson's spot. Cassius and a 2RP get two ways and play mostly in Fort Wayne and if we don't see pick 60 we stash him in Europe. another spot could be created by moving Lamb or not resigning Doug.

on reflection I'm going to put this on Doyle as every team plays 10 or few players most nights from a group of 17. no one has "room" for the full roster. isn't the short answer to lack of playing time for everyone competition?

Haven't we figured out by now that Doyle is an idiot?

His print articles are basically good for two things - Paper training puppies and lining the bottom of bird cages.

[Wizop]

Haven't we figured out by now that Doyle is an idiot?

he's a good feature writer. period.

I used to be able to watch the Colts draft in the press room. one year they were talking about the publisher liking Doyle because she thought he worked hard because he was in the office a lot more than his predecessor. the guys thought that was ridiculous because you get the stories by being out of the office.

[Tom White]

Haven't we figured out by now that Doyle is an idiot?

he's a good feature writer. period.

I used to be able to watch the Colts draft in the press room. one year they were talking about the publisher liking Doyle because she thought he worked hard because he was in the office a lot more than his predecessor. the guys thought that was ridiculous because you get the stories by being out of the office.

I would think you get stories by communicating (which, to me, includes listening and observing). Whether that is in person, by phone, messaging, email, etc. Anyway, it doesn't say much for the publisher that she based her opinion on that criteria.

[Pacers Forever]

Back to Lillard after seeing comments from Billups and Olshey the GM I really don’t think Dame will be available. As Topofthekey noted one of our perfect scenarios is to find a young up and coming player who will become a difference maker which is more realistic than us over paying in assets to get an established superstar. The other scenario is to get lucky and hit big on a draft prospect.
Edit I’m not a fan of Doyle as he uses edgy insinuating almost drama questions in press conferences and that doesn’t play well with me. I rarely read Indy star when in Indy over a lifetime.

[Wizop]

Read on Twitter

?s=19

Sent from my phone.

[Scoot McGroot]

Read on Twitter

?s=19

Sent from my phone.

You might notice they cite a lot of very questionable sources i most of their stuff, but won’t even link or cite anywhere that rumor is supposed to come from. I’d take it as made up for a click or a share.

[Wizop]

You might notice they cite a lot of very questionable sources i most of their stuff, but won’t even link or cite anywhere that rumor is supposed to come from. I’d take it as made up for a click or a share.

Most rumors are plugs from agents.

Sent from my phone.

[Scoot McGroot]

You might notice they cite a lot of very questionable sources i most of their stuff, but won’t even link or cite anywhere that rumor is supposed to come from. I’d take it as made up for a click or a share.

Most rumors are plugs from agents.

Sent from my phone.

Not even on that Twitter account, though. They cite reports from websites or reporters, so you can ascertain as to the likelihood of it being real. That report in particular didn’t cite any reporter, or where the rumor came from.

[Wizop]

You might notice they cite a lot of very questionable sources i most of their stuff, but won’t even link or cite anywhere that rumor is supposed to come from. I’d take it as made up for a click or a share.

Most rumors are plugs from agents.

Sent from my phone.

Not even on that Twitter account, though. They cite reports from websites or reporters, so you can ascertain as to the likelihood of it being real. That report in particular didn’t cite any reporter, or where the rumor came from.

i find it easier to just assume that all rumors are false rather than to sort out the sources. well, I suppose I do trust the local reporters to be more accurate than reporters from other cities about what our own teams are doing.

[Helsbyte]

I already know this isn't going to be received well, but am I the only one who thinks McDermott is expendable? I would rather pursue Danny Green or Josh Hart just to name a couple than Doug. I like Doug and all but if we are approaching 10m per year give me Green instead.

[Wizop]

I already know this isn't going to be received well, but am I the only one who thinks McDermott is expendable?

depends a bit on what the draft gives us and what happens with Aaron and Jeremy, but I don't think he's a must sign. McConnell is though.

[Scoot McGroot]

I already know this isn't going to be received well, but am I the only one who thinks McDermott is expendable? I would rather pursue Danny Green or Josh Hart just to name a couple than Doug. I like Doug and all but if we are approaching 10m per year give me Green instead.

I’d be pretty ok with just letting Justin replace Doug on the bench, with Oshae and Kelan there to take the other minutes at the 4/3 spots (Oshae at the 4 and Kelan at the 2/3 that Doug played). I’d be ok with keeping Doug if we jettisoned Lamb/Aaron to do so, but we’d be making it awful tough to re-sign Warren next year at that point.

[Wizop]

but we’d be making it awful tough to re-sign Warren next year at that point.

unless you buy into the notion floated by some local reporters that Herb's willingness to pay Carlisle as much as he did indicates a willingness to go into the tax.

[Pacers Forever]

I’m ok if Doug stays or goes. I love his cutting game and deadeye shooting from 3. I just don’t help but feel that Doug could be easily replaced with someone better defensively. Shocker here I could even do with or without Justin Holiday as I feel he and Doug are sort of duplicates for the small forward/wing position even though they have some different game skills. I do like Hart and the Green from Brooklyn. There’s so many Greens I get confused lol

[Tom White]

but we’d be making it awful tough to re-sign Warreto see the team bn next year at that point.

unless you buy into the notion floated by some local reporters that Herb's willingness to pay Carlisle as much as he did indicates a willingness to go into the tax.

I've seen some speculation that Herb's age is coming into play. He, regrettably, is up there in years, and may be thinking if he wants to see the team compete at the highest levels again he may not have many chances remaining. So that may affect his willingness to spend.

[Wizop]

He, regrettably, is up there in years, and may be thinking if he wants to see the team compete at the highest levels again he may not have many chances remaining. So that may affect his willingness to spend.

reminds me of a story. an older man (it was Frank McHale if that means anything to anyone but me) spent the day at the horse track. walking to the car, a friend asked him how he did and he answered, "I had a wonderful time, but my heirs and beneficiaries took a hell of a beating." Herb could indeed feel the same way.