2020 Draft & Free Agency

[Scoot McGroot]

On draft night 2017 I was on this board screaming for John Collins now look what we got! An empty uniform. Collins shooting over 40% from 3 range, averaging 20 points and 10 rebounds and bocking 1.8 shots per game! This is one of the worst draft picks in Pacers history.

In all fairness, he (Collins) absolutely failed the interview and personal background check. With his drug test failures to get a 25 game suspension already, and the fact that Atlanta isn’t totally sold on him per reports (despite being a 20/10 young player who can block shots and shoot the 3, which should make him a complete keeper, he’s mentioned in talks all the time), we may not have missed there in that regard. OG with the injury may have been a health flunk.

But yeah, I’d still have liked to take the flier in OG. He was exactly what we were needing and looking for at the time in terms of that swing forward. And as bad as Leaf has been here, just a couple years of production from OG or Collins, if the red flags eventually prove totally true, would still be more valuable than what we’ve gotten from TJ.

Still even with Collins mistakes he's got value and TJ does not.

Sorry. Yeah, that’s what I meant in my last paragraph. Even if he were to fail more drug tests and get suspended for 2 years and then for life, he’s have still provided more value than TJ Leaf has at all and been worth “wasting” a pick hypothetically.

[pacers33granger]

Sorry. Yeah, that’s what I meant in my last paragraph. Even if he were to fail more drug tests and get suspended for 2 years and then for life, he’s have still provided more value than TJ Leaf has at all and been worth “wasting” a pick hypothetically.

TJ might raise his value if he failed a drug test. At least it would explain some things.

[basketballwacko2]

Sorry. Yeah, that’s what I meant in my last paragraph. Even if he were to fail more drug tests and get suspended for 2 years and then for life, he’s have still provided more value than TJ Leaf has at all and been worth “wasting” a pick hypothetically.

TJ might raise his value if he failed a drug test. At least it would explain some things.

You could put him on Dianabol for 2 years and he'd still be to weak to play.

[Wizop]

Anyone know this kid?

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Sent from my phone.

[Scoot McGroot]

Anyone know this kid?

Read on Twitter

?s=19

Sent from my phone.

http://www.nba.com/draft/2020/prospects/terry-armstrong

Sounds like a perfect target for a 2 way like in the Brian Bowen role. Plus, we need athletic wings long term, like whoa.

[Moooose]

Anyone know this kid?

Read on Twitter

?s=19

Sent from my phone.

As soon as I read your post, I've googled if there is anyone else named Terry Armstrong in the draft.

He is who I think he is. He's a top recruit back in HS, drawing wild comparisons to KD but I first thought of Reggie Bullock when I first saw his tapes. Same number, same physique, same shooting stroke, and somehow looks similar to him with the hair and all.

I didn't know he skipped college or that he's old enough to go to college. Suprised that he is playing overseas.

I watch a lot of mixtapes of highschool and college guys and his highlights were somehow memorable. So I guess that's a good thing.

This is what I meant about the draft not being weak at all. Had this process been the same as previous years, there's a good chance we'll see his name in the mid to late 2nd round like Billy Preston's projection then. But no mention of this kid anywhere. Not until you posted it here.

[Topofthekey]

Leaf likely didn't get much coaching as he ended up becoming a type of player we didn't have time to invest in. We certainly could have used a stretch 4, but when it became apparent he was more of a 5, there simply wasn't any room for him.

Honestly it was the report about him refusing to go to the G League to get reps that did it for me. I could give him the benefit of the doubt because of Nate's mediocre development with end of the bench guys. But he doesn't seem to want to work hard and/or smart to get better.

On draft night 2017 I was on this board screaming for John Collins now look what we got! An empty uniform. Collins shooting over 40% from 3 range, averaging 20 points and 10 rebounds and bocking 1.8 shots per game! This is one of the worst draft picks in Pacers history.

In all fairness, he (Collins) absolutely failed the interview and personal background check. With his drug test failures to get a 25 game suspension already, and the fact that Atlanta isn’t totally sold on him per reports (despite being a 20/10 young player who can block shots and shoot the 3, which should make him a complete keeper, he’s mentioned in talks all the time), we may not have missed there in that regard. OG with the injury may have been a health flunk.

But yeah, I’d still have liked to take the flier in OG. He was exactly what we were needing and looking for at the time in terms of that swing forward. And as bad as Leaf has been here, just a couple years of production from OG or Collins, if the red flags eventually prove totally true, would still be more valuable than what we’ve gotten from TJ.

Actually, this makes a lot of sense

Last thing I'd want for the team is for players to pull a gun on their teammates in the locker room or something. I'd absolutely avoid someone with background or personality issues, it's just not worth it

As for OG, I guess it depends on the nature and how serious the injury concerns were at that time. Could have ended up drafting another Jonathan Bender, who knows

So yea, put in this context, the decision to pass on both of them doesn't look as terrible

[Scoot McGroot]

On draft night 2017 I was on this board screaming for John Collins now look what we got! An empty uniform. Collins shooting over 40% from 3 range, averaging 20 points and 10 rebounds and bocking 1.8 shots per game! This is one of the worst draft picks in Pacers history.

In all fairness, he (Collins) absolutely failed the interview and personal background check. With his drug test failures to get a 25 game suspension already, and the fact that Atlanta isn’t totally sold on him per reports (despite being a 20/10 young player who can block shots and shoot the 3, which should make him a complete keeper, he’s mentioned in talks all the time), we may not have missed there in that regard. OG with the injury may have been a health flunk.

But yeah, I’d still have liked to take the flier in OG. He was exactly what we were needing and looking for at the time in terms of that swing forward. And as bad as Leaf has been here, just a couple years of production from OG or Collins, if the red flags eventually prove totally true, would still be more valuable than what we’ve gotten from TJ.

Actually, this makes a lot of sense

Last thing I'd want for the team is for players to pull a gun on their teammates in the locker room or something. I'd absolutely avoid someone with background or personality issues, it's just not worth it

As for OG, I guess it depends on the nature and how serious the injury concerns were at that time. Could have ended up drafting another Jonathan Bender, who knows

So yea, put in this context, the decision to pass on both of them doesn't look as terrible

If I recall, on draft night it was reported that Collins had a character red flag for Indy and OG was flagged by the health staff?

[Wizop]

I didn't know he skipped college or that he's old enough to go to college. Suprised that he is playing overseas.

He took the overseas pro route over college. Seems like a couple of players do that every year. I'm all for a professional path for kids who lack a solid academic record.

[basketballwacko2]

On draft night 2017 I was on this board screaming for John Collins now look what we got! An empty uniform. Collins shooting over 40% from 3 range, averaging 20 points and 10 rebounds and bocking 1.8 shots per game! This is one of the worst draft picks in Pacers history.

In all fairness, he (Collins) absolutely failed the interview and personal background check. With his drug test failures to get a 25 game suspension already, and the fact that Atlanta isn’t totally sold on him per reports (despite being a 20/10 young player who can block shots and shoot the 3, which should make him a complete keeper, he’s mentioned in talks all the time), we may not have missed there in that regard. OG with the injury may have been a health flunk.

But yeah, I’d still have liked to take the flier in OG. He was exactly what we were needing and looking for at the time in terms of that swing forward. And as bad as Leaf has been here, just a couple years of production from OG or Collins, if the red flags eventually prove totally true, would still be more valuable than what we’ve gotten from TJ.

Actually, this makes a lot of sense

Last thing I'd want for the team is for players to pull a gun on their teammates in the locker room or something. I'd absolutely avoid someone with background or personality issues, it's just not worth it

As for OG, I guess it depends on the nature and how serious the injury concerns were at that time. Could have ended up drafting another Jonathan Bender, who knows

So yea, put in this context, the decision to pass on both of them doesn't look as terrible

What are you talking about pulling a gun on teammates?

Collins tested positive for a PED and he's not the only guy who did, DeAndre Ayton also was suspended last fall for a failed drug test. There was no question that Collins was the best player on the board and what ever the concerns about him that was the reason he was not a top 10 pick. But when you're picking 18th you can take a chance. What you don't do is what this team has done repeatedly is pick some scrub like TJ Leaf, I'll list a few scrubs we've taken, Shawne Williams, Tyler Hansbrough, Solo Hill, Miles Plumlee!!! The team consistently misses on draft picks, only PG and Danny Granger come to mind as good picks. If this team had taken Jrue Holliday in 2009 instead of taking Hansbrough there would have been no need to trade the 2011 pick for George Hill and that guy was Kahwi Leonard. Plumlee could have been Dremond Green, Hill could have been Rudy Gobert. But some brain dead halfwit in the front office would rather draft guys who could be taken in the 2nd round and pass on other guys who some other team sees the value in.

[Topofthekey]

I was talking about Gilbert Arenas, about the gun thing

It may not be applicable to John Collins, but just saying that I wouldn't want to see someone like that on the team

Yes, I agree that Pacers haven't been great at drafting

It's strange though. Considering that Pacers aren't great at attracting top tier free agents, I imagine that they would have placed greater importance on the draft and invested whatever resources necessary to ensure that they draft well. Granted, no one can really predict how players will turn out, but you have teams like the Spurs, and lately the Heat, who have consistently over performed in the draft. When you're consistently over performing relative to your draft position, that can't be luck

[Tom White]

Granted, no one can really predict how players will turn out, but you have teams like the Spurs, and lately the Heat, who have consistently over performed in the draft. When you're consistently over performing relative to your draft position, that can't be luck

Which begs the question: How much of it is the evaluation of players in the draft, and how much of it is what they do with the players after they have them?

Obviously, both sides of the coin are important, but it does interest me. A bit like asking would their draftees have been as successful on other teams? I really have no idea, but I'm interested in everyone's thoughts.

[Moooose]

Granted, no one can really predict how players will turn out, but you have teams like the Spurs, and lately the Heat, who have consistently over performed in the draft. When you're consistently over performing relative to your draft position, that can't be luck

Which begs the question: How much of it is the evaluation of players in the draft, and how much of it is what they do with the players after they have them?

Obviously, both sides of the coin are important, but it does interest me. A bit like asking would their draftees have been as successful on other teams? I really have no idea, but I'm interested in everyone's thoughts.

That's a good question. My 2 cents on the matter, if I may.

Some years ago I've read about how the Spurs consistently find gems late in the draft. Logic was quite simple in summary, they get guys that are fit to play specific positions and actual roles in the rotation. Like a plug and play system with components that are replaceable with similar parts. Since they almost always pick late in drafts, drafting for position makes more sense than going BPA. By doing that, rookies get actual on the job training early on, and not just some scrimmages. In the end, the Spurs get their rookies to play how they want them to play given a role or a position. I think the Raptors are following the same approach.

I know some teams always go BPA, but fail to give substantial roles to their draft picks, therefore hindering their development.

The Pacers are pretty good in scouting, IMO. But on most cases, we are on the BPA approach more than on positional need. Same goes for other teams who wish to find jackpot players in the draft with the mentaliy of "if he is good, then he can play" and not "if he can play, then he can be good".
Well, I guess it really depends on where you are positioned in the draft, but there's a better approach than buying a lottery ticket everytime and keep hoping that you'll win someday.

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[Scoot McGroot]

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[Scoot McGroot]

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Also, Sabonis’ cap number will go up $1.3m since he made the all-star game, and TJ Warren’s number will go up $250k due to hitting his 3 pt shooting bonus. So, there’s $1.55m less under the tax than we originally projected.

As of now, with 12 players signed, we are at about $5.7m under the luxury tax. I would take this to be a guarantee that we’ll be active in the trade market in trying to cut some costs so we can try and bring back Justin Holiday, as is rumored to be the priority.

[Wizop]

I wrote this in another thread but it deserves repeating here:

now it looks like the draft is the 18th. the contact period starts on the 20th with signings beginning on the 22nd. so draft is still first.

[Topofthekey]

Pacers in: George Hill, Ersan Illyasova, Donte DiVincenzo

Bucks in: Doug McDermott, Jeremy Lamb, TJ McConnell, Goga Bitadze

How many FRPs do we add to complete the deal?

Bucks improve their bench, we get cut some salary and get DDV

[Scoot McGroot]

Pacers in: George Hill, Ersan Illyasova, Donte DiVincenzo

Bucks in: Doug McDermott, Jeremy Lamb, TJ McConnell, Goga Bitadze

How many FRPs do we add to complete the deal?

Bucks improve their bench, we get cut some salary and get DDV

You must think highly of Divincenzo.

[Lazlo4D]

Combine a new Pacer's coaching staff with a very weird draft next week, then holidays, FA, training camp, & season opener in a 4 week compressed time frame, it's hard to see it that beneficial for the Pacers to make any major moves. Draftees will barely have a chance to find a place to live before the season starts.

Kevin Pritchard doesn't have really have pressure to make a move now unless some team is prepared to severely overpay for current player.

Anybody see when the new mid-season trade deadline date will be?

[Topofthekey]

Pacers in: George Hill, Ersan Illyasova, Donte DiVincenzo

Bucks in: Doug McDermott, Jeremy Lamb, TJ McConnell, Goga Bitadze

How many FRPs do we add to complete the deal?

Bucks improve their bench, we get cut some salary and get DDV

You must think highly of Divincenzo.

I do, I think he can be a very good role player, the type that everything winning team covets, the type whose impact doesn't show up on the box score

I have a feeling that 2 or 3 years from now, he will be the best player among everyone in that trade

I would love to keep Goga too, but I felt that Bucks needed more in that trade. If Pacers are overpaying in that trade, I'd be more than happy to do it without Goga and put Leaf in instead