Roster construction

nrbq · Post #81 » by **nrbq** » Thu Jun 9, 2022 7:49 pm

Spotrac is a good page. I would love to get back Sumner.

Topofthekey · Post #82 » by **Topofthekey** » Tue Jun 14, 2022 10:20 am

There are several questions to ponder about this team right now, and the answers to those questions can steer the team towards very different directions

What to do with #6? What to do with Myles? What to do with the emerging glut in the backcourt?

But the most interesting question to me is what to do with the team's cap space, because it looks like there's no clear cut answer

They can try to make a splash and sign someone expensive, like Ayton or Bridges, or even Brunson or Sexton or Lavine

They can go the more frugal way and spread their cap space among a few quality vets or role players, like Kyle Anderson or Joe Ingles and so on

Or they can conserve their cap space and just focus on re-signing/extending their own players like Myles and Warren, or Lance or even Jalen Smith

They can also try to accumulate draft assets by taking on bad salary

There are just so many ways they can choose to utilize their cap space. It doesn't look like there's a clear cut answer either. I'm honestly not sure how I would use the team's cap space if I were in charge

Post #83 » by **Scoot McGroot** » Tue Jun 14, 2022 12:21 pm

There also may end up not even being any cap space at all, as the team may better operate over the cap with their TPE’s, full MLE, and bird rights for S&T like Warren/Rubio.

And even more confusing, we could flip plans midstream and operate differently as it presents itself.

Pacers Forever · Post #84 » by **Pacers Forever** » Tue Jun 14, 2022 9:34 pm

It’s going to be very interesting no matter what path is taken. Maybe more similar youth added through trades to grow with Haliburton, possibly only more draft rookies to grow with a very young core, or a veteran or two brought in to strengthen and gain more future draft capital.

Without inside info on opponents players available, what objectives league teams are heading themselves, teams cap concerns, we’re left to speculate, wish, and hope for more great Pacer franchise moves.

Even though it’s not a good free agent market(next year is better) I still see a lot of reorganizing of rosters needed and happening.

My opinion is Hawks, Knicks, Lakers, Kings, Blazers, possibly Jazz and Cavs along with the Pacers are looking to retool their rosters more than any other teams.

Magic, Pistons, Thunder, and Rockets are all still building through the draft/tank process and might be looking to trade veterans or take on expiring a while steadily developing their younger core.

Hornets, Bulls, Suns, Pelicans, Nets, Wizards, and Raptors all have free agents or max contact decisions which might lead to some minor retooling.

Wolves, Clippers, and Spurs fall into my steady rebuilding category and are sneaky and quiet in the news but will be active.

Warriors, Celtics, Heat, Mavs, Nuggets, Bucks, 76ers, and Grizzlies will be looking at finding the piece or pieces to put them at the top.

I can’t wait and expect our FO to be active and making significant upgrades.

Pacers Forever · Post #85 » by **Pacers Forever** » Sat Jul 2, 2022 10:30 am

Current Roster

Myles Turner——————$18,000,000

Buddy Hield——————-$21,177,750

TJ McConnell—————- $8,100,000

Goga Bitadze——————$4,765,339

Jalen Smith———————$4,670,160

Tyrese Haliburton———-$4,215,120

Chris Duarte———————$3,936,960

Isaiah Jackson——————$2,573,760

Oshae Brissett——————$1,846,738

Terry Taylor————————$1,563,518

Duane Washington Jr——-$1,563,518

Daniel Theis———————-$8,694,369

Aaron Nesmith——————-$3,804,360

Nik Stauskas————————$2,193,920

Malik Fitts —————————$1,752,638

Juwan Morgan———————$1,815,677

Rookies

Bennedict Mathurin————$ unknown

Andrew Nembhard————-$ unknown

Kendall Brown———————$ unknown

Haliburton/McConnell/Nembhard
Hield/Duarte/Washington/Stauskas
Mathurin/Brown/Nesmith/Fitts
Smith/Brissett/Taylor/Morgan
Turner/Jackson/Theis/Goga

* some play multiple positions

FREE AGENTS
Lance Stephenson
TJ Warren
Gabe York
Nate Hinton

As you can see we have 19 players under contract and can have up to 20 (which includes the 2 two way contracts) until the day before the regular season starts. For the season we can keep 17 players which includes 2 two way contracts.

Of course they’ll make trades, waivers, and two way designations in the weeks to come. I don’t expect two way resolutions until after summer league conclusion and possibly as late as training camp.

For the new guys Stauskas and Fitts I believe will be traded if possible or ultimately waived. I could see Nesmith and Morgan getting a shot at the roster or two way contracts depending on if we move Myles and don’t sign any more free agents.

Post #86 » by **Scoot McGroot** » Sat Jul 2, 2022 12:03 pm

Pacers Forever wrote:
Bennedict Mathurin————$ unknown

Andrew Nembhard————-$ unknown

Kendall Brown———————$ unknown

Mathurin will be $6,586,800 per his rookie scale contract for his draft selection.

Nembhard and Brown will negotiate their contracts from scratch, but both will be less than $2m in year in all likelihood. Brown would likely either be a vet minimum, or a 2 way contract.

Wizop · Post #87 » by **Wizop** » Sat Jul 2, 2022 1:09 pm

We also signed 4 exhibit 10 deals with summer league players. At some point we cut them and they are priority targets for the Ants, but we're over 20. I expect an expanded Boston trade adding team(s) to take some minimum contracts.

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Pacers Forever · Post #88 » by **Pacers Forever** » Sat Jul 2, 2022 2:00 pm

Ok here I go again looking at players not yet signed by their teams(mostly due to priorities) that probably will soon, but if not hmmmm. Think end of roster prospect if we need players due to a big trade where we move off a few of our excess as filler.

These aren’t well known free agents.
Hawks
Sharife Cooper
Timothe Luwawu

Nuggets
Facundo Campazzo

Pistons
Luka Garza

Bucks
Jordan Nwora

Thunder
Jaylen Hoard

Pacersike · Post #89 » by **Pacersike** » Sat Jul 2, 2022 6:27 pm

I doubt Warren will want to play for a team without other vets.

He needs to be in the playoffs, scoring points in crunch time with his killer instinct.

I can't say I'm overly excited about the deep rebuild.
I'm just confident Warren will return pretty awesome again and then we would have had a pretty exciting playoff team if we had kept our other veterans. If you trade a point center like Sabonis (and to a lesser degree LeVert) you have a completely different team.

First they refuse to get unproven players to rebuild, now they want a lot of them. The middle road would have been better and usually is the middle road is the best option.

Ruaidri · Post #90 » by **Ruaidri** » Sat Jul 2, 2022 9:39 pm

I am very happy with the draft, trades and signing so far.

We got some young players, former lottery picks, entering their third season. Who for some reason have not really get their chance to shine.
They are now on a make or break moment. So much to prove.

We have 3 point shooters, a great passing point guard. Remember how Chris Paul makes sometimes margin catch and shoot guys look like superstars. I believe Tyrese can have the same impact on our wing players.

And most of all we have a lot of cap room. So I really hope we can use that to get a veteran player who fits our team.

No more trades for me. Just one extra veteran player on a bigger contract and let the talent unfold.

There will be terrible games coming season, but there will also be evenings that we all start to believe a championship is possible in the near future.

Wizop · Post #91 » by **Wizop** » Sun Jul 3, 2022 2:09 am

Ruaidri wrote:
No more trades for me. Just one extra veteran player on a bigger contract and let the talent unfold.

Unless Warren returns, I expect a deal for a backup 3. The Brogdon or Rubio rumors could be tweaked before they're official. We need to shed some of the new guys.

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Post #92 » by **Grang33r** » Sun Jul 3, 2022 2:37 am

Ruaidri wrote:
No more trades for me. Just one extra veteran player on a bigger contract and let the talent unfold.

Then Turner has to re-sign. Would be silly for the Pacers to go into a season when they know it’s going to be tough while they rebuild, and lose Turner for next to nothing at the deadline or nothing at all next July.

meridian · Post #93 » by **meridian** » Sun Jul 3, 2022 4:35 am

Grang33r wrote:
Ruaidri wrote:
No more trades for me. Just one extra veteran player on a bigger contract and let the talent unfold.

Then Turner has to re-sign. Would be silly for the Pacers to go into a season when they know it’s going to be tough while they rebuild, and lose Turner for next to nothing at the deadline or nothing at all next July.

I agree with this. If Turner isn't signed to an extension then he should be traded.

I like Myles and I think he can be a starting center on a contender but I think we largely know what we have in him. While I like what he brings (though I wish he was a better rebounder) I don't think it's a great fit for a rebuilding team. Going into the last year of his deal and I don't want to see him walk for nothing.

Even if it's a Brogdon type of return i'm good with that. I want to clear the runway for the young guys so that we have a solid look at what they can do and see how they develop. If the Pacers can get another future 1st for him then great. I want them to have more throws at the dart board. You might not get Tim Duncan with a late 1st round pick but lots of terrific players have been drafted in the 20s. (Gobert, Jimmy Butler, Anunoby, Dejounte Murray, Siakam, Robert Williams, Jordan Poole, Keldon Johnson, etc)

Helsbyte · Post #94 » by **Helsbyte** » Sun Jul 3, 2022 4:50 am

meridian wrote:
Grang33r wrote:
Ruaidri wrote:
No more trades for me. Just one extra veteran player on a bigger contract and let the talent unfold.

Then Turner has to re-sign. Would be silly for the Pacers to go into a season when they know it’s going to be tough while they rebuild, and lose Turner for next to nothing at the deadline or nothing at all next July.

I agree with this. If Turner isn't signed to an extension then he should be traded.

I like Myles and I think he can be a starting center on a contender but I think we largely know what we have in him. While I like what he brings (though I wish he was a better rebounder) I don't think it's a great fit for a rebuilding team. Going into the last year of his deal and I don't want to see him walk for nothing.

Even if it's a Brogdon type of return i'm good with that. I want to clear the runway for the young guys so that we have a solid look at what they can do and see how they develop. If the Pacers can get another future 1st for him then great. I want them to have more throws at the dart board. You might not get Tim Duncan with a late 1st round pick but lots of terrific players have been drafted in the 20s. (Gobert, Jimmy Butler, Anunoby, Dejounte Murray, Siakam, Robert Williams, Jordan Poole, Keldon Johnson, etc)

Unless you intend to be non competitive for the next 5 years plus you can't run a team of youngsters out there. You need veterans to lead. All this talk of getting even younger only ensures the team losing year after year.

Post #95 » by **Grang33r** » Sun Jul 3, 2022 4:54 am

Helsbyte wrote:
Unless you intend to be non competitive for the next 5 years plus you can't run a team of youngsters out there. You need veterans to lead. All this talk of getting even younger only ensures the team losing year after year.

I agree, but what good would it do for the Pacers future if Turner wants to test the market and potentially walk for free?

meridian · Post #96 » by **meridian** » Sun Jul 3, 2022 5:18 am

Helsbyte wrote:
meridian wrote:
Grang33r wrote:
Then Turner has to re-sign. Would be silly for the Pacers to go into a season when they know it’s going to be tough while they rebuild, and lose Turner for next to nothing at the deadline or nothing at all next July.

I agree with this. If Turner isn't signed to an extension then he should be traded.

I like Myles and I think he can be a starting center on a contender but I think we largely know what we have in him. While I like what he brings (though I wish he was a better rebounder) I don't think it's a great fit for a rebuilding team. Going into the last year of his deal and I don't want to see him walk for nothing.

Even if it's a Brogdon type of return i'm good with that. I want to clear the runway for the young guys so that we have a solid look at what they can do and see how they develop. If the Pacers can get another future 1st for him then great. I want them to have more throws at the dart board. You might not get Tim Duncan with a late 1st round pick but lots of terrific players have been drafted in the 20s. (Gobert, Jimmy Butler, Anunoby, Dejounte Murray, Siakam, Robert Williams, Jordan Poole, Keldon Johnson, etc)

Unless you intend to be non competitive for the next 5 years plus you can't run a team of youngsters out there. You need veterans to lead. All this talk of getting even younger only ensures the team losing year after year.

1. If Myles Turner is kept and he is healthy then how many more wins do you think the Pacers have with him this season?
2. Setting aside Turner's impact on winning, what good do those additional wins do the Pacers this year if he walks next offseason?
3. Going young in 2022/2023 doesn't mean that the team is going to be non competitive for 5 years.
4. Going young in 2022/2023 also doesn't mean that more veterans are not added next summer or beyond.

I do agree that you need veterans. Given his contract and what he brings I hope that TJ is kept around. My position on Myles is he has some real trade value and it's better to get something for him now as he enters the final year of his contract vs risk letting him walk and get nothing.

I'm not interested in keeping Myles around this season so that the Pacers can win say another 5-8 games and then see him walk for nothing. I'd rather see more of Smith and Jackson this year and get something in return for Myles vs seeing him walk for nothing.

I don't care what the number of wins turns out to be this year. I'm concerned with getting an idea of how good these young guys are and figuring out who you want to build with going forward.

Wizop · Post #97 » by **Wizop** » Sun Jul 3, 2022 12:32 pm

meridian wrote:I agree with this. If Turner isn't signed to an extension then he should be traded.
...

Even if it's a Brogdon type of return i'm good with that. I want to clear the runway for the young guys

Scoot can provide details but aren't there different limits to what he can get on an extension now versus next summer?

Turner is still a young guy.

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Post #98 » by **Scoot McGroot** » Mon Jul 4, 2022 12:06 am

Wizop wrote:
meridian wrote:I agree with this. If Turner isn't signed to an extension then he should be traded.
...

Even if it's a Brogdon type of return i'm good with that. I want to clear the runway for the young guys

Scoot can provide details but aren't there different limits to what he can get on an extension now versus next summer?

Turner is still a young guy.

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I believe Turner is limited to a 4/$97m extension if he extends before he hits free agency. Once he hits free agency, he’d be eligible to sign for anything up to his max salary (4/$174+m). He won’t get a full max, but you can see there’s a wiiiiiiiiide variance of value there.

Wizop · Post #99 » by **Wizop** » Mon Jul 4, 2022 2:37 am

Scoot McGroot wrote:I believe Turner is limited to a 4/$97m extension if he extends before he hits free agency. Once he hits free agency, he’d be eligible to sign for anything up to his max salary (4/$174+m). He won’t get a full max, but you can see there’s a wiiiiiiiiide variance of value there.

So he could turn down an extension not because he wants out but because he's betting on his ability to get more next summer. Is that a reason to shop him?

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Post #100 » by **Scoot McGroot** » Mon Jul 4, 2022 3:12 am

Wizop wrote:
Scoot McGroot wrote:I believe Turner is limited to a 4/$97m extension if he extends before he hits free agency. Once he hits free agency, he’d be eligible to sign for anything up to his max salary (4/$174+m). He won’t get a full max, but you can see there’s a wiiiiiiiiide variance of value there.

So he could turn down an extension not because he wants out but because he's betting on his ability to get more next summer. Is that a reason to shop him?

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We reportedly did so with Oladipo. :dontknow:

he was only dealt after he declined his option and wanted to test free agency.