Richard Jefferson

[ardthomp]

I have been thinking about guys that the Pacers could bring in that could be playmakers for this team. Here is a trade I have been kicking around in my head and wanted to get some opinions on this. Keep in mind that RJ has an ETO this season, which I doubt he would use since his stock has gone down a bit from being in the Spurs' grinding offense and he is more inclined to play in an offense like the Pacers.

Pacers get: Richard Jefferson
Spurs get: Troy Murphy, Solomon Jones

Why this works for the Pacers: They get another playmaker on the wing, who's contract expires after the 2011 season. They are also opening up spots in the post for a possible big man with the 10th pick in the draft.

Why this works for the Spurs: They lose Matt Bonner and Ian Mahinmi after this season and Murphy and Solo are basically their replacements. They save a ton of money on RJ and can now go out and grab a wing FA that fits their style/tempo.

It really is a win-win on both ends, in my opinion. Thoughts?

[Starkiller]

I feel we can get more value for that package than just RJ.

[PR07]

I think we can get a better player than Jefferson for the cap space of Murphy. He's clearly on the decline.

[Grang33r]

Jefferson has been a major disappointment in San Antonio this season. Not just in the playoffs but in the regular season. He's past his prime i think and i do agree with PR07, Murphy can get more in return then just Jefferson.

[ardthomp]

Who can we get for Murphy? Cleveland showed us that we couldn't get youth, like JJ Hickson, especially when the Cavs knew they would be going after Z Ilgauskas again.

Again, Jefferson really isn't the type of player the Spurs typically have in their offense. Jefferson thrives in a high paced game, which isn't San Antonio's style.

To say Jefferson is on the decline is debatable to me. His career average is 17ppg. He is averaging 12 this year, while shooting 46.7% from the field, compared to 46.9% for his career. Yes, his three point percentage is down this year, but he was never really known for his perimeter game. If I'm averaging 17ppg and come to a team that already has options 1,2, and 3 filled up, then I'd say 12ppg is exactly where I should be.

[PR07]

He's a player, who in the prime of his career relied on his athleticism. I think he's lost a little bit of that. Remember, this guy used to be one of the high flyers of the NBA. He's still a pretty good shooter and can still score a little bit, but I'm not sure he's what we need. Pacers would be better served using that 10 million in cap space and pushing it toward a Tony Parker or Dirk, both of whom would fill glaring needs.

I don't like the mentality, "It's the best we can do." That's what gets GM's fired. The Pacers are a small market team and have to be saavy on how they want to commit 10 million dollars to for the new couple of years. It's the throwing around and accumulating of these contracts that got us in trouble in the first place in regards to our salary cap situation. If I'm going to pay a guy 10 million, then he better be worth 10 million, which I don't think Jefferson is at this point.

[laydo]

That's Crazy!

We already have enough wing players: Granger, Rush, Dunleavy and Jone. Why we need another one, especially with a 15 million contract?

Also, the total salary next season of Murphy and Solo is smaller than of Jefferson, why we do this trade to add the the financial burden?

[ardthomp]

Jefferson's contract expires at the same time as Murphy and Solo's contracts, which is where the Pacers are looking to be players anyway. We aren't hurting ourselves by taking on that contract.

The argument of "we have enough wing players" - We don't have enough playmakers, at any position. The only position we are lacking bodies is at PG and there aren't many teams (if any) that are going to trade a PG for any of the expiring contracts that we have.

[PR07]

I thought RJ's contract had another year on it, my mistake. However, I still wouldn't make the trade. Jefferson would give us more points, but he really wouldn't give us any long-term benefit. If you move Murphy, get a young player or get someone who's going to help us for at least a few years.

[mizzoupacers]

I don't really view Jefferson as all that much of a "playmaker"--he's a prototype small forward, and not a "point forward" or anything like that. Good player, but I'm not sure playmaker really describes him.

Would rather see the Pacers parlay Murphy's expiring contract into an upgrade at one of the guard spots--with someone who really is a playmaker--or for an athletic low-post guy.

[ardthomp]

That is a good point. When I think of a playmaker in the Pacers' offense, I think of a guy that can get out on the break and finish plays.

I suppose in the truest sense of "playmaker" most of us think of a guy that can create his own shots, finish in the paint, a real clutch player.

[Starkiller]

That's Crazy!

We already have enough wing players: Granger, Rush, Dunleavy and Jone. Why we need another one, especially with a 15 million contract?

Also, the total salary next season of Murphy and Solo is smaller than of Jefferson, why we do this trade to add the the financial burden?

Please stop lumping Dumpleavy in this manner......he's not an asset to the team, he's terrible. The sooner he's gone, the better.

[MNPacersfan]

That is a good point. When I think of a playmaker in the Pacers' offense, I think of a guy that can get out on the break and finish plays.

I suppose in the truest sense of "playmaker" most of us think of a guy that can create his own shots, finish in the paint, a real clutch player.

I think of a playmaker as a guy that makes plays for his team; scoring opportunities for himself and others. The guy that finishes on the break is the guy that has the play made for him.

[PR07]

That is a good point. When I think of a playmaker in the Pacers' offense, I think of a guy that can get out on the break and finish plays.

I suppose in the truest sense of "playmaker" most of us think of a guy that can create his own shots, finish in the paint, a real clutch player.

I think of a playmaker as a guy that makes plays for his team; scoring opportunities for himself and others. The guy that finishes on the break is the guy that has the play made for him.

Nice way of putting it.

[Miller4ever]

Murphy's better for our team than Jefferson. At least Murphy rebounds.

BTW, I will submit that Dunleavy is NOT crap, contrary to what Starkiller thinks. The dude is coming back from a very tough injury, but his shooting will be back after this summer and that's when he'll be a valuable contributor again.

Dahntay Jones is as much of a playmaker as Jefferson. I think O'Brien under-utilizes his slashing and foul-drawing abilities.

Rush stretches the floor better than Jefferson at this stage with a significantly higher 3P%.

I'm not arguing that we don't need improvement at the position, I just think that Jefferson is not the answer. I'd rather spend Troy Murphy elsewhere.

[greenway84]

Murphy
Foster
Dallas 2nd
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FOR
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Jefferson
Hill

[Starkiller]

Murphy's better for our team than Jefferson. At least Murphy rebounds.

BTW, I will submit that Dunleavy is NOT crap, contrary to what Starkiller thinks. The dude is coming back from a very tough injury, but his shooting will be back after this summer and that's when he'll be a valuable contributor again.

Dahntay Jones is as much of a playmaker as Jefferson. I think O'Brien under-utilizes his slashing and foul-drawing abilities.

Rush stretches the floor better than Jefferson at this stage with a significantly higher 3P%.

I'm not arguing that we don't need improvement at the position, I just think that Jefferson is not the answer. I'd rather spend Troy Murphy elsewhere.

Here's the end all be all, what good has Dumpleavy done this team, at all, since he's been here? He's done nothing for us. Granger, Hibbert, Price, Psycho T, and Rush have given us pieces to build around. Murphy will get us a good player and a pick for his expiring. Dumpleavy has done nothing. We will get nothing for him, and resigning him will be a waste. His career is over. And whoever said that as a sixth man he could be like Manu is downright insane. At no point in his career was Dumpleavy ever in the same league as Manu. Not even close.

Sorry, I hate that dude.

[8305]

I don't see where Jefferson makes any sense for the Pacers. He is a pure 3 just like Granger. If we acquired Jefferson, Granger would have to play alot more at the 4. Good strategy if the objective is to shorten his career. I have no problem with Granger at the 4 when we are matching to another team that is playing small. Playing small with the result of Granger playing major minutes against the likes of Bosh, Gasol and other big time players at that position is bad strategy.

[Scoot McGroot]

Murphy's better for our team than Jefferson. At least Murphy rebounds.

BTW, I will submit that Dunleavy is NOT crap, contrary to what Starkiller thinks. The dude is coming back from a very tough injury, but his shooting will be back after this summer and that's when he'll be a valuable contributor again.

Dahntay Jones is as much of a playmaker as Jefferson. I think O'Brien under-utilizes his slashing and foul-drawing abilities.

Rush stretches the floor better than Jefferson at this stage with a significantly higher 3P%.

I'm not arguing that we don't need improvement at the position, I just think that Jefferson is not the answer. I'd rather spend Troy Murphy elsewhere.

Here's the end all be all, what good has Dumpleavy done this team, at all, since he's been here? He's done nothing for us. Granger, Hibbert, Price, Psycho T, and Rush have given us pieces to build around. Murphy will get us a good player and a pick for his expiring. Dumpleavy has done nothing. We will get nothing for him, and resigning him will be a waste. His career is over. And whoever said that as a sixth man he could be like Manu is downright insane. At no point in his career was Dumpleavy ever in the same league as Manu. Not even close.

Sorry, I hate that dude.

Really? The guy played tremendously well for us for two years. Dunleavy has provided more for us than Hibbert, Price, Hansbrough, and Rush combined on the court. Sure, he's not super young, but he was a tremendous team player, and he's a great teammate. When he's healthy, he adds a dimension to this team and takes a TON of scoring pressure off of Granger, without dominating the ball.


I'm sorry if you don't like him. That's certainly ok. But to say that he's done "nothing for us" is flat out ignorant and incorrect.

[Starkiller]

Really? The guy played tremendously well for us for two years. Dunleavy has provided more for us than Hibbert, Price, Hansbrough, and Rush combined on the court. Sure, he's not super young, but he was a tremendous team player, and he's a great teammate. When he's healthy, he adds a dimension to this team and takes a TON of scoring pressure off of Granger, without dominating the ball.


I'm sorry if you don't like him. That's certainly ok. But to say that he's done "nothing for us" is flat out ignorant and incorrect.

Out of everything you've said, where has that gotten us?