What If: The Pacers Acquire Darren Collison

[jarrettjackfan]

After seeing the rumors when I woke up this morning on the possibility of the Pacers trading the #10 pick to the Hornets for Darren Collison, I just had to write up an article about it, so here we go.

The Pacers desperately are in need for a starting point guard, and if they were to acquire Collison that would fill that need completely. Not only would he bring a young player that could start for many years to come, but they would be trading for a young player that put up Chris Paul like numbers last season while filling in for the injured star. Collison brings a pass first mentality, with an uncanny ability to score the ball at will.

I've noticed a few things about him that I like, and I'm going to try to break his game down to the offensive and defensive side of the ball.

Offensive

Like I stated earlier, one of Collison's biggest attributes is his ability to pass the ball. During his rookie season, Collison put up the numbers of 12.4 PPG, and 5.7 APG, but those numbers really don't give him justice on how well he played. Let me take you through some game logs here.

3/1 vs. Spurs
10 points, 15 assists, 5 rebounds.

3/3 vs. Grizzlies
17 points, 14 assists, 5 steals.

3/5 vs. Spurs
32 points, 2 assists, 2 rebounds.

3/8 vs. Warriors
16 points, 20 assists, 3 steals.

Those are just a few of his games when he was starting for the injured Chris Paul, and that shows you waht he can bring to the court. Two games in particular, show what he can do. Against he Warriors he showed that he could pass the ball exceptionally well, but then you look at the 3/5 game against San Antonio, and he put up 32 points against a very good defensive team, that shows he can put the ball in the bucket as well.

Basically the point I was making with those stats, is that he brings a perfect balance of what the Pacers need. Last season they had guys that could do one or the other, but not both. Ford was a scoring guard who you could always mark up for double figure points, but also for just a couple assists. Watson on the other hand could put up the assist numbers, but he wasn't a very effective scorer.

All that being said, I think this proves that Darren Collison would be a perfect fit for the Indiana Pacers. Only giving up the #10 pick for him would be a great deal for us, and I think would make us a playoff team assuming we can stay healthy.

Defensive

There isn't really a ton I can talk about him defensive, but again some of those stats that I put in up there show that he is very good at reading the passing lanes, and he also has quick hands. Basically if you don't pay attention to where your dribbling or passing the ball, you can expect Darren Collison to take it from you. Also, he's very quick with his feet, so he's able to stay in front of even the best point guards in the NBA, something the Pacers haven't had in their point guard for a long time. That's about all I know to put about his defense.

Thoughts?

[NO-KG-AI]

He's a little erratic because he plays so fast, but he showed he can play slow and deliberate offense at UCLA. He'll get the turnovers down for sure.

He's going to be a good defender as well, like Chris Paul, he'll be an excellent defender that people say is poor because of his size.

I don't love the Pacers as trade partners though, because I think Collison can be packaged with expirings to net a quality star player, and I don't think they want to move Granger.

[MUpacersSIC]

He's a little erratic because he plays so fast, but he showed he can play slow and deliberate offense at UCLA. He'll get the turnovers down for sure.

He's going to be a good defender as well, like Chris Paul, he'll be an excellent defender that people say is poor because of his size.

I don't love the Pacers as trade partners though, because I think Collison can be packaged with expirings to net a quality star player, and I don't think they want to move Granger.

There's no way you're getting a "star player" for Collison. Sorry to burst your bubble, but that's just not happening. The Pacers could probably offer NOH the most in my opinion. We've got the #10 pick, Rush, and expirings. I personally would even take on Okafor if it came down to it.

[Boneman2]

Why would Collison and expirings entice us to trade you Danny?

For everyone out there, there are other ways to acquire a pg at drastically reduced rates (Shaun Livingston). If we move our pick it should be coupled with expirings to acquire a potential all-star to put next to Danny. If we move our pick it would signal an end to the rebuilding, because when you rebuild you don't trade away picks. How do we know that Lawson or Collsion are going to be any better than Bradley or Bledsoe, one thing we do know is they're much older. I'd much rather trade down and obtain multiple picks ( 12*25 Patterson-Udoh-Henry/Bledsoe 0r 16*23 George-Udoh-Babbit /Bradley-Bledsoe).

It makes more sense to stockpile talent before the mass-exodus occurs. Although, I guess a lot would depend on what we do with our expirings.

[NO-KG-AI]

It wouldn't, that's why the Pacers aren't a good fit.

Wait till someone gets disgruntled and a team is looking to move a player for capspace and a young prospect. Is there going to be a team that has a 15 million dollar expiring deal, and a good prospect on the block as good as Collison? Doubt it.

WE don't want to give up Okafor, people are still stuck on that. Sacto offered expirings, we could have dumped him long ago.

Anyway, every team keeps coming on to our board offering trades where we give up the two best players, and get marginal returns, or something that fits horribly (like shooting forwards to play next to West) and then try to convince us what is best for our team, pretty annoying.

Pacers don't want to move Granger, and hte Hornets aren't just giving Collison away, because all of our crappy deals are expiring anyway, aside from Posey, and new ownership isn't trying to just cut spending.

[Boneman2]

^^^^ No but we got 40 + mill/ #10/ Rush . Why can't the Pacers aim for that disgruntled star too?

[NO-KG-AI]

^^^^ No but we got 40 + mill/ #10/ Rush . Why can't the Pacers aim for that disgruntled star too?

Maybe they can, but try to sell #10 and Rush as a better deal than Collison+11.

[ardthomp]

Why would Collison and expirings entice us to trade you Danny?

For everyone out there, there are other ways to acquire a pg at drastically reduced rates (Shaun Livingston). If we move our pick it should be coupled with expirings to acquire a potential all-star to put next to Danny. If we move our pick it would signal an end to the rebuilding, because when you rebuild you don't trade away picks. How do we know that Lawson or Collsion are going to be any better than Bradley or Bledsoe, one thing we do know is they're much older. I'd much rather trade down and obtain multiple picks ( 12*25 Patterson-Udoh-Henry/Bledsoe 0r 16*23 George-Udoh-Babbit /Bradley-Bledsoe).

It makes more sense to stockpile talent before the mass-exodus occurs. Although, I guess a lot would depend on what we do with our expirings.

I have to agree with you. Trading back makes more sense unless we are bringing in a big time player.

[8305]

Why would Collison and expirings entice us to trade you Danny?

For everyone out there, there are other ways to acquire a pg at drastically reduced rates (Shaun Livingston). If we move our pick it should be coupled with expirings to acquire a potential all-star to put next to Danny. If we move our pick it would signal an end to the rebuilding, because when you rebuild you don't trade away picks. How do we know that Lawson or Collsion are going to be any better than Bradley or Bledsoe, one thing we do know is they're much older. I'd much rather trade down and obtain multiple picks ( 12*25 Patterson-Udoh-Henry/Bledsoe 0r 16*23 George-Udoh-Babbit /Bradley-Bledsoe).

It makes more sense to stockpile talent before the mass-exodus occurs. Although, I guess a lot would depend on what we do with our expirings.

Counting on Shaun Livingston is a recipe for not having a pg 15 games into the season. Trading pick 10 for a second year player does not equate ending the rebuilding program. I have absolutely no problem letting Collison and Lawson learn on someone else's dime and acquiring them when they are closer to being solid NBA players. Finally we don't even know if Bledsoe and Bradley are competent college point guards let alone NBA level point guards. So yes, if I'm going to hand this position over to whoever the draft choice allows us to acquire I'm much more comfortable with Lawson or Collison than Bradley or Bledsoe.

[Pacers2013Chmps]

Why would Collison and expirings entice us to trade you Danny?

For everyone out there, there are other ways to acquire a pg at drastically reduced rates (Shaun Livingston). If we move our pick it should be coupled with expirings to acquire a potential all-star to put next to Danny. If we move our pick it would signal an end to the rebuilding, because when you rebuild you don't trade away picks. How do we know that Lawson or Collsion are going to be any better than Bradley or Bledsoe, one thing we do know is they're much older. I'd much rather trade down and obtain multiple picks ( 12*25 Patterson-Udoh-Henry/Bledsoe 0r 16*23 George-Udoh-Babbit /Bradley-Bledsoe).

It makes more sense to stockpile talent before the mass-exodus occurs. Although, I guess a lot would depend on what we do with our expirings.

Counting on Shaun Livingston is a recipe for not having a pg 15 games into the season. Trading pick 10 for a second year player does not equate ending the rebuilding program. I have absolutely no problem letting Collison and Lawson learn on someone else's dime and acquiring them when they are closer to being solid NBA players. Finally we don't even know if Bledsoe and Bradley are competent college point guards let alone NBA level point guards. So yes, if I'm going to hand this position over to whoever the draft choice allows us to acquire I'm much more comfortable with Lawson or Collison than Bradley or Bledsoe.

its a no win situation either way we are rebuilding and not contending, why not take the choice with more upside

[8305]

He's a little erratic because he plays so fast, but he showed he can play slow and deliberate offense at UCLA. He'll get the turnovers down for sure.

He's going to be a good defender as well, like Chris Paul, he'll be an excellent defender that people say is poor because of his size.

I don't love the Pacers as trade partners though, because I think Collison can be packaged with expirings to net a quality star player, and I don't think they want to move Granger.

It would seem like this should be a possibility for New Orleans. A package of Peja/Collison or Collison/Songolia would seem to create some possibilities. I think there are couple of things working against this concept. After last years draft there aren't that many teams in need of point guard help. Many of the teams who need pg help don't anything to trade other than cap space.

I think an arguement can be made that given your needs at other positions whoever you would draft at pick 10 would be of more use to the Hornets than Collison.

[Scoot McGroot]

3/1 vs. Spurs
10 points, 15 assists, 5 rebounds.

3/3 vs. Grizzlies
17 points, 14 assists, 5 steals.

3/5 vs. Spurs
32 points, 2 assists, 2 rebounds.

3/8 vs. Warriors
16 points, 20 assists, 3 steals.




Thoughts?

Mar.7 @ Memphis
28 points, 6 reb, 9 assists

Mar.5 Orlando
30 points, 12 assists, 6 rebounds

Feb. 5 Dallas
18 points, 19 assists, 4 rebounds

Nov. 22 Washington
19 points, 23 assists, 11 rebounds

Nov. 16 Minnesota
12 points, 15 assists, 9 rebounds



Who are those you ask? That's 2001-2002 (rookie year stats) of one Jamaal Tinsley.

Can't judge a rookie PG just on his stats. So much more goes into it. I'm not saying that Collison is the same idiot that Tinsley is, but you just can't tell. Hard to put a lot of stock into games from a rookie year, when the player hasn't fully put out there who he is yet.

[Boneman2]

^^^When a rookie does stuff like that it blinds you. Give Lawson or Collison a full workload before determining whether they got it.

If the #10 & expirings could get us a star, great. But if not, I'd rather trade the pick for multiple picks. There has already been some speculation that teams want to move into the top 10. Any combo of Patterson/ Bledsoe - Henry/Sanders - Udoh/Bradley interest me more than one prospect.

Counting on Shaun Livingston is a recipe for not having a pg 15 games into the season

I hear you 8305, but I think Livingston is finally strong enough to play in the league on a nightly basis. I kept waiting for him to fail but he only got stronger. Playing that well, running the point on a fully depleted Bullets squad really impressed me. Much more than two rookies playing for two very good teams, backing up two very good point guards. The pressure wasn't really on them. And Livingston is around the same age as Lawson and Collison. He is just as good an option IMO. His measurables alone are very unique.

[MUpacersSIC]

"Bullets"???? You mean Wizards. They did change their name a long time ago. haha

[Moooose]

^^ Off-court issues and attitude aside, Tinsley was a good point guard. No doubt about it. It's just unfortunate that his troubles were too much and that greatly affected his career. But without that baggage, Tinsley could've been a solid veteran PG, could've been one of the better PG's of his time.
Though Ford is not as bad as Tinsley, he too had some issues with Larry and the guys, and the same case happened to him even though everybody knows he's got skills.
I can say Larry has learned a lot in choosing guys with good character, guys that can co-exist with one another, and in the next additions to the roster, that would be a major factor. I just hope the next starting pg for the Pacers wouldn't fall on the same pit that destroyed Tinsley and Ford.. which obviously destroyed the team too.

[Miller4ever]

Man, Pacers used to have a good run of PG's. (History lesson time of M4E's favorite Pacer PG's)

Don Buse: Led the ABA -AND- the NBA in assists -AND- steals in back-to-back years. He also shot well from the distances, getting about a third of his threes to fall in an age where 25% was a the norm. He also was an all-defensive selection twice in the ABA and an awesome four times in the NBA.

Vern Fleming: A stalwart PG that shot an efficient 49% for his career and notched 11 points and 5 assists across that span. His golden years came when Reggie hit the scene, although his role was lessened while the Pacers searched for an answer at the position.

Mark Jackson: The dude. He lives in my neighborhood. He was the most prolific passer in Pacer history, and a great shooter in his own right. He had modest scoring but good percentages, and although his defense was suspect, he was a key for many Pacers playoff runs.

Other guys have served as stopgaps. The most notable were probably Micheal Williams and Pooh Richardson, who got some good averages but only spent two seasons for the Pacers each. Scott Skiles also came through here.

It's time for the Pacers to get someone. I would love to have Darren Collison. Tinsley was derailed by his mother's death and injuries and a subsequent lack of motivation. These are damn near tragedies, and not the norm.

[basketballwacko2]

^^^^ No but we got 40 + mill/ #10/ Rush . Why can't the Pacers aim for that disgruntled star too?

Maybe they can, but try to sell #10 and Rush as a better deal than Collison+11.

What disgruntled star are we talking about? The story I heard was that the Hornets were wanting to cut salary. So since we can't take any salary because we are over the luxury tax too, we may not be a good fit. But a 3 way deal were some other team eats some salary could be worked.

Tornoto gets Peja
Hornets get, Murphy, Hedo Turkeglu, Rush #13 and #10
Indiana gets, Okafore, Collison and Marco Belinelli

Hornets save about $4 million and have 3 #1 picks #10,11 and 13.

[DWCP2]

The fans want the no. 10 pick simply because the Pacers are dangling it in other PG rumored trades with Lawson and Parker.

However, New Orleans is different, every trade rumor board I read in the last few months that wasn't fan oriented and based says Collison is available if the other team is willing to take on one of their eyesore contracts.

Think Collison to New Orleans like the #10 pick is to the Pacers. In one resolve you'd like to either improve or clear cap and take on a different direction and that's what both are wanting to do.

Problem is that both are bad trade partners because both are using their assets to get under the luxury tax.

[laydo]

Tornoto gets Peja
Hornets get, Murphy, Hedo Turkeglu, Rush #13 and #10
Indiana gets, Okafore, Collison and Marco Belinelli

Hornets save about $4 million and have 3 #1 picks #10,11 and 13.

The Hornets can't save any if they sign all these first round picks. And it makes no sense they get another ulgy contract of Hedo, who, by the way, is older than Okafor.

The Raptors lost way too much. And I like Rush better than Belinelli.

[Boneman2]

However, New Orleans is different, every trade rumor board I read in the last few months that wasn't fan oriented and based says Collison is available if the other team is willing to take on one of their eyesore contracts.

Well I can say I sure wouldn't give up any more than the first. I sure as hell wouldn't give them our hard earned expirings and the pick if all the incentive is Collison and his toxic add-ins.

If it goes down hopefully Bird will expand the trade some. Since they have too many power forwards and we need one I'd target West. Sure he is older but still has a few seasons left in the tank.

I'd give:
Dunleavy/ Foster/ #10
for
West/ Peterson/ Collison

They add an expiring wing that is a a lot better than what they got out there now, and open up minutes for Okafor to finally play a significant role. They may not like it, but they can't pay out that much money for one position.