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Applolgies to all if this notion is illegal. Two trades with Toronto.

1. TJ Ford for Jose Calderon
2. Mike Dunleavy for 10 mil TPE

Pacers save 10 mil this year to help offset the futrue cost of Calderon. They also get a point guard who could be pretty effective with our long athletic wings Granger, Rush and Granger. I cringe at the thought of watching Jose trying to guard the quick pg's of the league but, it would be interesting to see what this team would do with a real pg.

Toronto moves their second contract from hell without giving up a young asset and can begin their reebuild in earnest next year.

Yeah, it helps offset the future cost of Calderon by one year, but he's owed 3 years at nearly $30 million.

Next off-season, we could have enough salary cap space for essentially 2 maximum salary contracts, providing we renounce our Bird rights to Murphy, Dunleavy, Foster, etc. If we trade for Calderon, we would have enough cap space for on max guy, and then around $5 million left.


Now, I'm not saying we're going to go out and sign a max salary guy, but cap space can be used to absorb contracts in trades as well. Maybe we could help out a luxury tax bound team, or get someone for free. Who knows. Either way, I'd prefer maximum flexibility to make a move, as opposed to being stuck with an NBA average starting PG in Jose Calderon.

You and I beat this 2 max contract space vs 1 max contract and change into the ground over the notion of trading for Hinrich. Another angle hit me that I think is worth considering.

The key to acquirig that stud player that brings the Pacers back to relevance is having young assets. Expiring contracts are needed too but you won't get that type trade done with expirings alone.

This trade creates minutes for Stephenson as a backup point gurad and George on the wing. It also brings in a point guard whose most noteworthy skill is his ability to distribute. Granger, Rush and George in particular will benefit having a guy like Calderon. If a Pau Gasol or Kevin Garnet type player hits the market this year it would be better to have young guys looking as good as possible. A real pg raises that potential.

If a stud player doesn't hit the market at least you've more completely developed your young players. Remember the way Andre Iguadola languished playing with Alan Iverson and blossomed when paired with Andre Miller. Same dynamic here if we're rolling with a nondescript point guard or TJ Ford.

No Calderon, thanks!

I'd like simply Dunleavy for Jack. Maybe we add a 2nd round pick.

Wonder how this trade done while Dunleavy's contract is way bigger than Jack's? It's simple.

Separate the trade for two parts: Dunleavy for 10million Trade Exception. Then send 5millon of 10 Trade Exception and a 2nd rounder for Jack.!

Jack may not be the best answer for the Pacers at point guard, but he's the safest choice, since he is always healthy and had been playing under JOB's system.

Oh great. This thread again.

sweet we have 2 Grangers????? "Granger, Rush, and Granger" Dont worry i know who you meant.

8305 wrote:Applolgies to all if this notion is illegal. Two trades with Toronto.

1. TJ Ford for Jose Calderon
2. Mike Dunleavy for 10 mil TPE

.

I doubt the Raptors will do that trade. Money is the issue. Perhaps the Pacers should include $3m and a pick.

Hoops23 wrote:

8305 wrote:Applolgies to all if this notion is illegal. Two trades with Toronto.

1. TJ Ford for Jose Calderon
2. Mike Dunleavy for 10 mil TPE

.

I doubt the Raptors will do that trade. Money is the issue. Perhaps the Pacers should include $3m and a pick.

**** that!

Hoops23 wrote:

8305 wrote:Applolgies to all if this notion is illegal. Two trades with Toronto.

1. TJ Ford for Jose Calderon
2. Mike Dunleavy for 10 mil TPE

.

I doubt the Raptors will do that trade. Money is the issue. Perhaps the Pacers should include $3m and a pick.

Jose Calderon's 3 year deal at $30 million is the issue. Perhaps the Raptors should include some value with him?

laydo wrote:No Calderon, thanks!

I'd like simply Dunleavy for Jack. Maybe we add a 2nd round pick.

Wonder how this trade done while Dunleavy's contract is way bigger than Jack's? It's simple.

Separate the trade for two parts: Dunleavy for 10million Trade Exception. Then send 5millon of 10 Trade Exception and a 2nd rounder for Jack.!

Jack may not be the best answer for the Pacers at point guard, but he's the safest choice, since he is always healthy and had been playing under JOB's system.

I'd love to move Dunleavy for Jack too. The problem is you would need a willing partner on the other side. I don't think there is any way Toronto makes this trade.

Frankly I'm not crazy about Ford and Dunleavy for Jose and the TPE myself. Just trying to come up with something that makes sense if you are wanting to move both Ford and Dunleavy.

I'm content to wait it out until the deadline unless we get someone who fits us well. The best fit with a young big guard, IMO, would be a quick smaller one who wouldn't scare us on perimeter D against the speedsters.

Someone who could start for us if Lance didn't pan out or compliment him well if he did. Someone who wouldn't cost us a fortune. I ran a thread on this recently and the best candidates seem to be Conley, Maynor, and Collison.

Not sure if the Raps want TJ back, but they do want to dump Calderon (most anyway)

Let's see how he does at the Worlds... then we can talk.

Hoops23 wrote:

8305 wrote:Applolgies to all if this notion is illegal. Two trades with Toronto.

1. TJ Ford for Jose Calderon
2. Mike Dunleavy for 10 mil TPE

.

I doubt the Raptors will do that trade. Money is the issue. Perhaps the Pacers should include $3m and a pick.

Are you insane!! NO freaking way! I don't want JC anyhow not even for TJ, I wouldn't take JC if the Raps gave me 2011 #1 with him. I'd rather start Ford than have 2 more years with JC and his average play for superstar pay!

I'd probably take Calderon if the Raps threw in their 1st Rd pick. It will be a top ten pick IMO.

I might consider this TJ, Dunleavy to the Raps for Caldy, Davis or Derozen, 2011 #1 and $3 million. I'm not saying that I'd do this because I have no faith in Caldy to be any better than TJ, but I would think about it.

^^^^ Basically there ain't no deal for Caldi happenin'.

Also, I wouldn't expect that Toronto would be inclined to deal Derozan or Davis, plus a lottery pick, just to shed 10 mill annually. They couldn't afford to, they depend on the draft just like us.

Scoot McGroot wrote:Yeah, it helps offset the future cost of Calderon by one year, but he's owed 3 years at nearly $30 million.

Next off-season, we could have enough salary cap space for essentially 2 maximum salary contracts, providing we renounce our Bird rights to Murphy, Dunleavy, Foster, etc. If we trade for Calderon, we would have enough cap space for on max guy, and then around $5 million left.


Now, I'm not saying we're going to go out and sign a max salary guy, but cap space can be used to absorb contracts in trades as well. Maybe we could help out a luxury tax bound team, or get someone for free. Who knows. Either way, I'd prefer maximum flexibility to make a move, as opposed to being stuck with an NBA average starting PG in Jose Calderon.

This mentality was good for the last 2 years, but next summer that mentality is horrible. The best players are all at SF (the same position as Granger and George)

Melo, Butler, Howard, Prince, Battier, Green, Kirilenko, Barnes, Dunleavy, Thornton, Hill, Dudley, T.Young, etc.

Of the non-SF free agents, we have Parker, Murphy, Yi, Dalembert, Chandler, Landry, Pryzbilla, Andre Miller, J-Rich, Hawes (R), Conley (R), Brooks (R), Collison, Kristic, Nene, Perkins, and maybe a few others.

Now there may be a few names there, but no one in that crowd besides Melo is max worthy and IMO, there is only two places he goes…Denver or NY. I don’t see that many teams maneuvering to make room for these free agents. Many of those players are wanting to play for well established teams where they are the missing piece (like Perkins, Nene, Chandler, Dalembert, J-Rich, etc.). I can see maybe Hawes or Collison being interested in Indy, but not much others.

As far as teams in the tax, the hardest hit ones have major expiring this year:
Utah: Kirilenko, New Orleans: Peja, Denver: Martin. Competitors may be Milwaukee with Redd or Memphis with Randolph. The only teams over the tax next year as of right not are Lakers, Boston and Orlando. Only Orlando has pieces that they may be willing to move like Lewis, Nelson, Gortat, Pietrus, Reddick, Bass. But looking at their track record, I don’t think they will just freely give anyone up unless it is a contract you don’t want. Then you can move into players like Brand who Philly would love to unload, but the incentive pieces like Turner and Iggy are, once again, at your strongest position.
Which gets me down to what other teams are not over the tax, but may be watching their budget. Dallas? Terry is available but you say you don’t want him. Atlanta…Marvin Williams and Mike Bibby? Sounds like your best bet. Maybe a dump of Hinrich if Arenas is not dumpable. Maybe.

Long story short, next year is a horrible summer to be a non-major market team with bunches of money and with your strongest position being SF.

^^The expirings will be shopped heavily to teams that want SF's.

Miller4ever wrote:^^The expirings will be shopped heavily to teams that want SF's.

Okay, but what would you guys be looking for that you would cancider today? I don't particulary think the deals will get too much sweeter next year. New York, Memphis, Minnesota, Cleveland, Denver, Golden State, Houston, New Jersey, Oklkahoma City, Sacramento, Washington and you guys (12/30 or 40% of this league) is slated to have less than $45 million payroll next year which may be close to max money. 5 more, or 17% of this league (Milwaukee, LA Clippers, Detroit, Toronto, Phoenix) are slated to be less than $50 mil.

If the cap is set close to $60 mil, that is 57% of the league who has at leat $10 mil of cap room. 3 of them (Memphis, OKC and Sacramento) each are lower than $34 mil.

There is a whole slew of buyers and maybe only 2 teams selling. Possibly Atlanta and possibly Orlando. But the deals will not be anywhere near as buyer friendly next year as they were the last 2 years. This year, you saw NOH pick get used to dump MoPete. Next year, I think we will see a lot more minor deals like a $10 talented player for a $6 mil less talented player w/o picks involved. Or a completely useless $6 mil guy with a pick for a better $4 mil guy. Those kind of trades. You won't see these really great bargains like you have been seeing the last 2 years.

In addition, many of those guys like Butler, Chandler, Perkins, Melo, etc will stay with their own team and really weaken that free agent pool. Lastly, many of the teams on the bubble like Dallas, Toronoto, Cleveland and Orlando all have trade player exceptions.

I'm not really trying to force the issue on anything, but there is a reason why those who struck out like LAC, NJN, NYK signed all their guys to 2 year deals: because 2012 is where you want to be. Players like Bibby, Hinrich and Jason Terry hold a bit more value than Calderon and Mo Williams and since they can play, they may even have more value than useless expirings like Ford, Curry, Martin, Peja, etc.

JC first must prove he can stay healthy, then we'll see if he can "play." That's why I'd like to wait to see how he performs in the Worlds before any real decisions can be made.