RealGM

I'm liking this ...today
Let Foster and TJ go use their savings to...
Sign free agents David West Kendrick Perkins.
Resign Dunleavy cheaply or let him go and play Posey
Resign Rolle
Resign McBob

Hibbert, Kendrik Perkins, Rolle
David West, Tyler Hans, McRoberts
Danny Granger, Posey, Paul George
Rush, Paul George, BPA
Collison, AJ Price, Lance

That is a well built team with very few weaknesses. They're talented and strong at both ends of the floor, and deep.
West's strong mid range game opens up the interior for drives and dunks.
He is not a defensive liability, has long arms and a veterans savvy that he can teach.
He's a consistent all around player. Might get more boards in less minutes when out of Okafor's shadow. I'd expect good production from him with reduced minutes and pretty good chemistry between Hibbert and Danny.
He makes 8.2 mil this year and we can only get him if he opts out so We would have to pay well and he'd like a long term contract. Sounds like a lot of money but That's not way too much for what he brings.

Perkins is a strong interior defender. He could start on many teams. When Roy sits we wouldn't miss a beat. He shoots .602 from the field so he's very efficient. 10.1 pt and 7.6 rebounds, AND 1.69 blocks per in a very average 28 mins. He could even play low post with Roy going high post and we'd be huge.
Less mobile than Nene' but comparable production ...at less than half the price and we don't have to coax him into the open. We'd have one of the strongest center pairs (and front lines) in the league.

We don't break the bank, save a lot of money in fact if we don't keep Dun. We use that and Posey's expiring next year to pay Hibb.

Did you mean to type Paul George twice? Because I noticed you're missing Dahntay.

I didn't even know Perkins was a FA next summer. Anyway, I don't know if he would be willing to go to a "lesser" franchise and be a backup considering he was a starter on a title team. Anyway, if he'd be willing to come here for a modest salary and backup Hibb, I'm all for it. But I'll take Perkins out of my equation.

David West is obviously a solid forward but I'm a little hesitant on him. I feel he might command a higher salary than some of the other PFs people have mentioned on this forum. Plus, he recently turned 30 and with an apparent lockout looming...would it be wise to be starting the push with a 32-year-old PF who would've had a year off? That's the only thing that worries me about West.

Here's my plan A. Let TJ, Duns, and Solo walk.

For our main free agent, target either Carl Landry or Jeff Green. Landry is a smaller version of West, but can spot up or post up, defend, hit the glass and do the dirty work. (Plus, he miiiiiiiiiiight be willing to take a slightly smaller rate since he went to college an hour and change north of Indy.) Green is a freak athlete, has a nice shooting range, quick and can hit the glass. Nene from Denver is my 3rd FA option because he can defend, hit the glass, create extra possessions, and score all without having to draw up plays for him. Either one would be fine with me. The only thing that scares me away about Green is that since he's restricted under Oklahoma City, we might have to overpay for him. And we'll likely want to extend both Hibbert and Rush after next year, and then Collison (and maybe Hans) the year after that. So I'd hate to see them break the bank for the sake of breaking the bank considering 3 of our core players will be due extension offers in a couple years.

If we can re-sign Foster on the cheap, he might be worth keeping around. He's older and beat up, but if we only need him for a couple minutes a night, that veteran presence plus spurts of production might be worth it - again I stress - on the cheap.

Re-sign McBob (who can play the 5 in stretches) and try again for Magnum Rolle. As for our draft pick, maybe target another wing. Bring him along slowly because Posey expires after next year and will be about 35 years old anyway. For our second draft pick, I don't know, maybe another big in case we can't/don't re-sign Rolle/Foster/McBob.

5 - Roy Hibbert, Josh McRoberts, Jeff Foster
4 - Carl Landry/Jeff Green/Nene, Tyler Hansbrough, Magnum Rolle
3 - Danny Granger, James Posey, draft pick
2 - Brandon Rush, Paul George, Dahntay Jones
1 - Darren Collison, A.J. Price, Lance Stephenson

In street clothes: Jeff Foster (maybe alternate with Rolle occasionally), Dahntay Jones, Lance Stephenson

For the record, I think Dahntay is very underused. He's a solid wing defender (not quite what he was in Denver) and came off a career offensive year last season. There's just no real way to work him in right now.

And perhaps most importantly, a new coach.

This is a once in a decade chance to make big upgrades. If we can't get real solid improvements I'd just be patient and save the cash.
I don't see the team you recommend as much better than we are right now.
Landry never had a blocked shot in his life. Green is not much better. Both are defensive liabilities against playoff PFs. With another year of play Tyler may match up decently with them.

I like Nene. I worry a little about his health and even tho he's younger than West I don't feel quite as secure. He costs almost as much as KP and DW combined and to get our value out of him he would have to start at the 4 - get about 24 min. and back up the 5 for another 10 or 12.
I like him playng with Hibb better than Perkins and about equal backing him up.
I think the team speed and greater offensive production of West makes him (West) a better full time starter at the 4 spot and with Perk to bolster the interior - man we are set.

West is a complete player. only a year older than Dun and plays a game not predicated on athleticism. He's doing almost 33 min now. I think if we can cut him to twenty eight we won't notice a let down for at least a couple years. In the mean time he brings a lot of experience to our youngsters. He's a better scorer, rebounder and defender than either of the smaller guys.
The average pay of this years 4/5 FAs is 7.2 mil. He makes a little more right now but is better than average in every category . I'd be happy to pay him the 8 he is getting now for 2 more years or a little less for 4. Free agents get paid, and we have the cash. Don't try to save three bucks and snag Landry. We'd be one and done for sure, THAT's costly.

Espn lists Perkins in the 2011 free agent class. He is only 26 and is used to starting for a good team like you say. He is probably the biggest bargain in the group. 4.6 mil for a starting quality center. Spend the cash! Make him a strong offer. If he likes our money and gets plenty of minutes on a better team...he'd have to be tempted.
Boston is getting older. I could see the team I propose beating them. It will help persuade the FAs if we continue to look good this year and Hibb snags an all-star spot.

Perkins makes less than Foster. West makes less than TJ.
Dunleavy makes more than either, and Posey isn't going' hungry. The combined income of those two will surely keep Hibb happy.

Someone else can better determine what we'd need to pay but no doubt the team I propose is possible and very strong.

p.s. I placed players as to where I'd like them to get minutes. Paul needs floor time next year and if he doesn't start I want him backing up both wing spots.
There's a roster spot or two open for flexibility and D Jones gets one. If Foster comes back strong and stays healthy and looks good going into the next year then he can have Perk's spot. But I'm doubting all that happens.
And I think a new coach is necessary, and one would think, inevitable. But alas, success this season could be very costly in that department.

I don't like the Perkins bit at all. I see Boston keeping him, and he would be expensive. He wouldn't want to be a backup, and we can't really play him and hibbert together.

Here's my plan A:

Let Foster, Dunleavy and Ford walk. (if Dunleavy or Foster is willing to take an incredibly cheap deal, ok, otherwise, bye bye)
Re-sign McBobs.
Sign Tyson Chandler.

Draft someone.


Collison/Price/?
Rush/George/Dahntay
Granger/Posey
Chandler/Hansbrough
Hibbert/McBobs

Then fill that out with whatever bargains are available. I don't want to use all the cap space on FA signings, because there would likely be teams that will give up some good asset in order to dump a bad asset (like NOH did with Posey/Collison, or how OKC managed to get Maynor and move up to draft Aldrich just by taking on bad contracts and getting the other team out of the luxury tax).



The reason I like Chandler so much is

1. I think he could be a bit cheaper than some other options.
2. I think he can play both PF and backup C.
3. He is a true rebounding/shotblocking presence.


That's my whole plan.

I'd love TC for good back up minutes at both big spots.
I don't like him much beside Roy. We'd have a pretty lanky tandem upfront. Size is not a bad thing but Two guys 7'1" plus leave me feeling a little flat footed by comparison.
Also Tyson's had some injuries hasn't he? I'd be a little concerned about paying him big cash. He would just have to be a lot cheaper.
What do you think will be his high bid? Right now he makes more even than Nene with numbers not that much better than Perkins ...at almost 3 times the cost.

I am really liking the idea of West between Hib and Danny. What kind of offer would it take?
What ever it is I think TJs pay check should cover it.

We pick up the best 5 available for Foster type money. If we could get Perkins or Tyson or Nene for that I'm happy.

We just release Dun for floor space and savings. That and Poseys expiring next year surely put us in better position than most teams.

Always a good idea to keep an ear open for trades for our expirings. That just opens up the possibilities to non free agents.
I just want the right pieces.

I usually lurk on this board, but I felt inclined to give an example plan I would hope happened.

Trade #1
http://games.espn.go.com/nba/tradeMachi ... Id=23lsm9e

In addition to the Hawks getting TJ and Hansbrough, they would receive at least a 1st round pick, but more than likely more than that.

Trade #2
http://games.espn.go.com/nba/tradeMachi ... Id=24jxxdt

The second trade I feel is a little more balanced with Dun, Jeff, and PG going to the 76ers for Iggy and Nocioni.

The first trade isn't complete because I feel they wouldn't say yes even though they would probably receive two first round picks for him along with cap relief for the JJ signing, a good backup PG with TJ, and perhaps a serviceable replacement in Tyler.

The second trade is more balanced IMO because they receive 17 million in cap relief after this year along with a young good player in PG, also lose the 4 years on Iggy's contract and 2 with Nocioni.

After looking at the lineups below, we would need to figure out a way to get another big in the trade. Perhaps throw in Dahntay and add a 2nd round somewhere for a big.

Lineup
C: Hibbert/???/Solo
PF: Smith/McBob/???
SF: DG/Nocioni/Posey
SG: Iggy/Rush/
PG: DC/AJ

If we could pull of this kind of trade I would marry Larry, and by doing these trades, we would utilize our expirings in a way that picks up players on the trade block that would fit the system this year with our fast break style, and in the future. We would have to go for a backup PF, perhaps Brandon Bass, or maybe during the offseason with the MLE. This team would be a defensive monster for MANY years with youth at every position.

If we wait and go into the offseason with cap space there won't be the type of players we actually need to make our team better, and who knows what will happen with the CBA.

I like Igg and Josh both of course. Tried for awhile to put exactly that same team together.
But the more i think about it i like it less.
First there just wouldn't be enough basketballs for that team. Too many guys who love to squeeze it.
Second Josh is going to be very costly in terms of what we would really have to give up to get him. Only reach like that if we're sure its a knock out...(see Heat).
I think B Rush might be figuring it out. I like d and he plays it. Can score a bit and is a good glue guy. Also it's possible that in a year or two He may get upstaged at the 2 by Paul or Lance. We may have the 2 spot covered pretty well.

J Smith and Granger overlap a little more than I like as do Igg and Danny.
It would be great to snag a guy that can give us points, good D at the 4 and 5. Nene maybe comes closest there and if he comes out I'd want to make an offer unless like I said we can get two guys that make us better all around. Those guys are hard to get. West likely will re-up but if he doesn't I think he's a better fit on our team than Smove, and cheaper. If he can give us three years of playoff experience that would be great. we'd have time to grow our youth and find his replacement.

Rolle got injured and cut from his NBA D-League team. I highly doubt he ever makes it back to Indianapolis.

Tyson Chandler is going to make some big money after the year's he's having. I'm not sure I want the Pacers to be the team that tries to give him a long-term contract, as I could see it ending horribly.

Whoever posted about a trade for Josh Smith, GO AWAY WE ARE NOT GETTING JOSH SMITH FOR TJ FORD PSYCHO AND OUR FIRST ROUNDERS THROUGH 2020. (i held shift look at me) Atlanta already has Jeff Teague so Ford would be the aging 3rd PG, hes not a serviceable backup lmfao, and they already reupped Horford so Psycho would be backing up, lol suitable replacement when hes backing up McBob and Solo on our team. Our picks wouldnt be that high either so basically they are trading for multiple backups/3rd string guys. Come on dude. Im not even going to mention the Iggy deal besides respectfully declining.

Also, why do people throw around 1st rounders like they're nothing lol....over the years every trade proposal i see involves "...they might throw in a 1st and 2nd or two..."

My target: Jeff Green. Played with Roy at G'town, obviously can defend and rebound very well and be a good supporting scorer. About the money, we'll see how OKC handles a definite max in Durant and close to if not max with Westbrook. If Harden turns into something, i think they'd definitely be more willing to let him walk.

In just shy of FORTY min per game Jeff Green manages only 6.8 boards and 0.3 blocks.
He's a good energy guy and plays pretty well but with 30 odd mil to spend I would like to aim higher. Also he is smaller than Tyler who is almost like a rookie. I just don't see Green is much beyond THs potential.
Go big or stay home.
I've cooled on Josh Smith btw. He is good but likely not worth what he'd cost and I'm not sure he's a great fit for the Pacers.

Agree... I want nothing of piling big cash on Chandler for several years.

I have a feeling the answer for out cap space and going forward as a team is gonna take some creative trading rather than signing someone outright. Maybe draft day trades or something. I tell you who I'd really like to see here in a dream world is Aldridge.

aquatic92 wrote:Whoever posted about a trade for Josh Smith, GO AWAY WE ARE NOT GETTING JOSH SMITH FOR TJ FORD PSYCHO AND OUR FIRST ROUNDERS THROUGH 2020. (i held shift look at me) Atlanta already has Jeff Teague so Ford would be the aging 3rd PG, hes not a serviceable backup lmfao, and they already reupped Horford so Psycho would be backing up, lol suitable replacement when hes backing up McBob and Solo on our team. Our picks wouldnt be that high either so basically they are trading for multiple backups/3rd string guys. Come on dude. Im not even going to mention the Iggy deal besides respectfully declining.

Also, why do people throw around 1st rounders like they're nothing lol....over the years every trade proposal i see involves "...they might throw in a 1st and 2nd or two..."

My target: Jeff Green. Played with Roy at G'town, obviously can defend and rebound very well and be a good supporting scorer. About the money, we'll see how OKC handles a definite max in Durant and close to if not max with Westbrook. If Harden turns into something, i think they'd definitely be more willing to let him walk.

Wow dude chill out you're making Josh Smith and Iggy sound like all-stars. IMO we are becoming good enough to not be so dependent on our draft picks each year (Paul George), so while the current talent level isn't where we want it to be, getting starters that fill needs is more important than a draft pick in a bad draft this year after pick 5 or 6. Also keep in mind that Pau Gasol was traded to the Lakers for next to nothing, and we traded Murphy for DC2. Personally I wouldn't go for Jeff Green mainly because he is a SF that isn't a defensive presence at the PF position.

balla18 wrote:

aquatic92 wrote:Whoever posted about a trade for Josh Smith, GO AWAY WE ARE NOT GETTING JOSH SMITH FOR TJ FORD PSYCHO AND OUR FIRST ROUNDERS THROUGH 2020. (i held shift look at me) Atlanta already has Jeff Teague so Ford would be the aging 3rd PG, hes not a serviceable backup lmfao, and they already reupped Horford so Psycho would be backing up, lol suitable replacement when hes backing up McBob and Solo on our team. Our picks wouldnt be that high either so basically they are trading for multiple backups/3rd string guys. Come on dude. Im not even going to mention the Iggy deal besides respectfully declining.

Also, why do people throw around 1st rounders like they're nothing lol....over the years every trade proposal i see involves "...they might throw in a 1st and 2nd or two..."

My target: Jeff Green. Played with Roy at G'town, obviously can defend and rebound very well and be a good supporting scorer. About the money, we'll see how OKC handles a definite max in Durant and close to if not max with Westbrook. If Harden turns into something, i think they'd definitely be more willing to let him walk.

Wow dude chill out you're making Josh Smith and Iggy sound like all-stars. IMO we are becoming good enough to not be so dependent on our draft picks each year (Paul George), so while the current talent level isn't where we want it to be, getting starters that fill needs is more important than a draft pick in a bad draft this year after pick 5 or 6. Also keep in mind that Pau Gasol was traded to the Lakers for next to nothing, and we traded Murphy for DC2. Personally I wouldn't go for Jeff Green mainly because he is a SF that isn't a defensive presence at the PF position.

he did pretty well against Roy, at least better than Gasol did. You must be trolling about his potential as comparable to Tyler. Green has athleticism and some offensive ability at the NBA level, something that Tyler has none of. Also, when Gasol was traded, the Grizzlies were cleaning house, the Hawks are not and will not be doing the same. Whatever, agree to disagree.

And i was pointing out how people throw around 1st round picks in trade proposals

I'm also in the Jeff Green camp. He does a lot of things very well that help a team win (almost like the Shane Battier of PF's except less defensively apt), and I feel like he's young enough to go along with the rest of the core. Hibbert and him also appear to have pretty good chemistry.

I really don't see OKC letting him go to be frank.

I understand their concern for wanting to push for a cheaper deal and that's probably why the extension talks didn't work out, but I have a feeling it will cost a bit more than he's worth to get him here.

Gremz wrote:I really don't see OKC letting him go to be frank.

I understand their concern for wanting to push for a cheaper deal and that's probably why the extension talks didn't work out, but I have a feeling it will cost a bit more than he's worth to get him here.

You realize getting anyone of quality to come here to Indy will take more money than he's worth right? We're not getting anyone good for cheap or a fair deal. That's what happens when you're as bad as we are and in the small market that is Indiana.

I don't expect us to have our pick of the best free agents. What I do want though, is to avoid offering up contracts like Detroit and Milwaukee have done recently.

What I was inferring was that I think Green's contract might be larger than most are expecting and I don't want Indiana to be the team that gives it to him.

I still think our best chance to get maximum value from this cap room is to take on longer contracts with our expirings or capspace and get assets returned for them.

Aquatic, this small market talk is a myth. You do realize Oklahoma City is much smaller than Indy, so they must be a microscopic market if we're small.

Here is a list of teams that play in a larger city (in order):
Knicks
Lakers
Clippers
Bulls
Rockets
Suns
76ers
Spurs
Mavericks
Pistons
Pacers

Boneman2 wrote:Aquatic, this small market talk is a myth. You do realize Oklahoma City is much smaller than Indy, so they must be a microscopic market if we're small.

Here is a list of teams that play in a larger city (in order):
Knicks
Lakers
Clippers
Bulls
Rockets
Suns
76ers
Spurs
Mavericks
Pistons
Pacers

Miami, Boston, Orlando?