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With all the flack Collison has been getting, I thought I'd give everyone a chance to rank how he fits in the list of our all time best. I'll start a list without trying very hard. This is Pacers only. I'm not trying to make him into an all time great.. Just suggesting that good point guards are hard to find. Who did I miss that belongs above him?

Mark Jackson
Freddie Lewis
Don Buse
Vern Flemming
Darren Collison

If you want to say Billy Keller, okay, but I remember Billy as more a small shooting guard that a true point guard. J Jack? Earl Watson? Travis Best? Haywoode Workman? Pooh Richardson? I don't think so.

What? How is Collison on there over Ford or Jack? He was worse than Earl Watson. As much hate as TJ got he was really good his first season here, just horribly misused. Travis Best was better. Tinsley was better. Collison should be on the list for worst point guard.

Rajon Rondo (after we trade for him)

Indy2thaWindy wrote: As much hate as TJ got he was really good his first season here, just horribly misused. Travis Best was better. Tinsley was better. Collison should be on the list for worst point guard.

The argument you make for TJ is the same one I apply to Darren. He is not that bad, and if he got into the right situation you never know. Darren averaged 18/9/4 over 39 games, or half a season. You fail to recognize this little fact.

In the right system he would do fine. Our system is more inclined to favor a combo (ie.JJack/GHill) guard at the 1.

EDIT: I almost forgot. Ford had a list of injuries. He is nowhere near the player based off of his weak body. Collison is in great shape. Ultimately, when it comes to courage, both are lacking, but Collison has more. Bottomline, Collison is better than Ford. TJ was really good for about 15 games, not 1 season like you claim, beyond that he sucked.

Indy2thaWindy wrote:What? How is Collison on there over Ford or Jack? He was worse than Earl Watson. As much hate as TJ got he was really good his first season here, just horribly misused. Travis Best was better. Tinsley was better. Collison should be on the list for worst point guard.

no, Best was not better. we used to scream at him for playing bouncy, bouncy. he dribbled way to much. Tinsley was better early and worse late. instead of improving he regressed. some insiders blame that on Isiah Thomas for anointing him the starter in his first training camp instead of making him earn the position. whatever the reason he didn't grow. the young TJ Ford was better but the post injury TJ that played for us was not. Jack and Earl were steady veterans. higher floors, lower ceilings. DC has much more speed than either of them.

as for the list of worst point guards, it is pretty long. in the era between Buse and Jackson you'll find a lot of unmemorable starters.

Boneman2 wrote:The argument you make for TJ is the same one I apply to Darren. He is not that bad, and if he got into the right situation you never know. Darren averaged 18/9/4 over 39 games, or half a season. You fail to recognize this little fact..

You fail to realize they force fed him the ball, put him in pick and pop situations constantly with David West and were an awful team with him at point guard. You fail to recognize this little stat. He's terrible any way you put it.

Indy2thaWindy wrote:

Boneman2 wrote:The argument you make for TJ is the same one I apply to Darren. He is not that bad, and if he got into the right situation you never know. Darren averaged 18/9/4 over 39 games, or half a season. You fail to recognize this little fact..

You fail to realize they force fed him the ball, put him in pick and pop situations constantly with David West and were an awful team with him at point guard. You fail to recognize this little stat. He's terrible any way you put it.

Calm down a bit. You also fail to realize that there's a lot of teams out there over the years that have done the same thing in terms of force feeding the ball to a PG, putting him in the perfect position to succeed, and have been on worse teams. However, many of those guys didn't put up the 18/9/4 that Collison did in that position.


You think Collison is the worst player in the face of the earth and the history of basketball. Some think that Collison is a solid PG who is in a tough situation in terms of fit right now. OBVIOUSLY, the truth lies somewhere in between those two polarizing points.

Collison is a backup PG in my opinion, and that stand far from top5. He is too overrated, just don't expect anything fancy from him, hope that Hill will close out the games approaching the PO.

Reaper_ wrote:Collison is a backup PG in my opinion, and that stand far from top5.

I said I made up the list with very little thought. I'm not pounding the table for top 5. if you think there are more Pacer point guards that have been better, just name them. reminds me of a story. years ago when I was a kid at summer camp the director told the camp clown to finish his food because people were starving in China and the kid fired back, "name three." so here's your chance. if he's so bad, name more that are better.

Mark Jackson
Jamaal Tinsley
Vern Fleming

Even TJ and Travis Best were better, but thats matter of opinion.

P.S. Collison just makes too many TO's at the end of the game.

Don Buse is the greatest Pacer PG of all time. Led the ABA and NBA in assists and steals in consecutive seasons, and a great shooter by standards back then. Intense defender and a champion, which is not something any other Pacers PG can say.

did Buse win a championship? I'm thinking only Freddie Lewis can make that claim. I've long thought Freddie was under-rated but Buse was special too. no question in my mind that Boo Boo, Fritzie, and Jackson are the top three Pacer point guards in some order. DC is admittedly not close to that level.

Good lord we've had some pathetic PG's.....

Why is Diener not on the list?!?!?!?!

Gremz wrote::angry: Why is Diener not on the list?!?!?!?!

He is..
on the bottom end.

If Buse's nickname was Boo Boo, then he is now one of my all time favorite players.