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http://www.dallasnews.com/sports/dallas-mavericks/headlines/20120603-report-mavericks-could-target-restricted-free-agent-roy-hibbert.ece

Saw this on hoopshype and on the wiretap as well. Should we get worried?

Dallas has a decent cap space for next season, especially if they don't land Deron Williams. And we all know Mark Cuban. This concerns me because they can actually sign Hibbert to a $10M-$12M deal and our thrifty owners made it known that they will not spend lavishly on a player.

I think we could easily do the $10-12 million range. David West is made $10 million this year and he will next year, too, and he's an older, non-7-footer. Roy has proven to be a very valuable commodity, with an improving offensive game, nice passing skills and did very well defensively in the playoffs. Plus, by all accounts, he's a very hard worker who has been embraced by both the team and community. That combination is a rare find.

^ Yes, but if the Mavs fail to sign Deron, they can go even higher with Roy.

Roy will be back but it will be expensive. Probably the same deal Mark Gasol got.

I wonder if this will change Simon's approach in regards to bidding on restricted players. He certainly should not tolerate others bidding on his restricted players, driving up the price.

I could definitely see a scenario where we s&t Roy to a team of his preference if he moves out of our price range. When Larry said we're S.O.F.T, I think he was directly talking about Roy's disappearance in the playoffs against the likes of Anthony and Turiaf, so I doubt he'll give him the max.

If somebody like Dallas has the ability to sign him outright and they offer him an insane contract, I'd stick'em with it like they do on storage wars. Roy will not be an all-star next season, especially in the west. Imagine giving Rik Smits or Brad Miller a max deal, it's about the same difference.

Boneman2 wrote:I wonder if this will change Simon's approach in regards to bidding on restricted players. He certainly should not tolerate others bidding on his restricted players, driving up the price.

can you spell c-o-n-s-p=i-r-e?

nothing we can do other than outbid them which we can do easily because we can offer another year. plus, sign and trades no longer are allowed with the extra year the original team can give so the other team can't twist your arm to do a sign and trade at the better deal.

as for soft, Bird said we were not soft in game 6 and his comment was strictly about game 5.

it won't be cheap but I'm not worried. what message would it send to people who jumped on the bandwagon in the playoffs and are thinking about buying a ticket package for next year if we don't keep Hibbert and Hill?

Sure the paying customer won't be happy if we lose Hill, but they would if we could turn him into Milsap.

Same goes with Hibbert. I know he is a rarity, but some of the offers I've seen for him on the trade board (ie J.Smith + #23, or Kanter, Milsap, + filler) have led me to reconsider my commitment to him.

Does anyone know the answer to this scenario? Granted, we can match any offer if another team agrees to pay Roy 60 mill/ over 4 seasons. But, can we match the offer with the intentions of signing and then trading him (S&T)? Honestly, if he has the audacity to sign with another team, I don't want him.

Regardless, even if a S&T isn't allowed I would collude with multiple teams in letting them know Roy could be available for the right price, once we're able to trade him. Meaning Larry should match any offer.

The Mavericks are not a top flight destination, they will have to go back to the draft after they blow up their disabled roster.

I'd rather not pay Hibbs the max, but this franchise would take a major step backward without him.

^^^ This.

Boneman2 wrote:Sure the paying customer won't be happy if we lose Hill, but they would if we could turn him into Milsap.

Same goes with Hibbert. I know he is a rarity, but some of the offers I've seen for him on the trade board (ie J.Smith + #23, or Kanter, Milsap, + filler) have led me to reconsider my commitment to him.

Does anyone know the answer to this scenario? Granted, we can match any offer if another team agrees to pay Roy 60 mill/ over 4 seasons. But, can we match the offer with the intentions of signing and then trading him (S&T)? Honestly, if he has the audacity to sign with another team, I don't want him.

Regardless, even if a S&T isn't allowed I would collude with multiple teams in letting them know Roy could be available for the right price, once we're able to trade him. Meaning Larry should match any offer.

The Mavericks are not a top flight destination, they will have to go back to the draft after they blow up their disabled roster.

No. You cannot match an offer and then trade him elsewhere in one fell swoop. You can, however, match the offer, but I believe the player would not be tradable until January of that season, and he would NOT be eligible to be traded to the team that signed him to the offer sheet.

This could be Dallas way of taking a competitor out of the Williams/Nash sweepstakes. We will have a short window to make something happen with Williams or Nash. For us to get one of these guys they will have to accept an offer on day one. Much beyond that we will be forced to match on Roy and after matching Roy the space under the cap to pay Williams will be gone.

Resigning Roy is more important than adding an elite point guard. I imagine that is how Dalas sees things for us.

Long term we might be better off on day one of free agency to deal with our own guys. At least try to sell them on the notion that any team minus an elite player can't over pay anyone. Once we've done that the flexibility to accumulate high quality role players will be gone and so will the ability to compete with teams having elite players.

Maybe get Roy at 12 mil/yr and Hill at 7 mil/yr. If you have to match someone else it could be more expensive.

Scoot McGroot wrote:

Boneman2 wrote:Sure the paying customer won't be happy if we lose Hill, but they would if we could turn him into Milsap.

Same goes with Hibbert. I know he is a rarity, but some of the offers I've seen for him on the trade board (ie J.Smith + #23, or Kanter, Milsap, + filler) have led me to reconsider my commitment to him.

Does anyone know the answer to this scenario? Granted, we can match any offer if another team agrees to pay Roy 60 mill/ over 4 seasons. But, can we match the offer with the intentions of signing and then trading him (S&T)? Honestly, if he has the audacity to sign with another team, I don't want him.

Regardless, even if a S&T isn't allowed I would collude with multiple teams in letting them know Roy could be available for the right price, once we're able to trade him. Meaning Larry should match any offer.

The Mavericks are not a top flight destination, they will have to go back to the draft after they blow up their disabled roster.

No. You cannot match an offer and then trade him elsewhere in one fell swoop. You can, however, match the offer, but I believe the player would not be tradable until January of that season, and he would NOT be eligible to be traded to the team that signed him to the offer sheet.

Technically yes the Pacers can. However when you match a contract offer,there are two restrictions, both for one calender year from the contract date matched.

1. You can't trade the player without his written consent.

2. You can't trade the player to the team that you matched the offer towards.

Boneman2 wrote:I wonder if this will change Simon's approach in regards to bidding on restricted players. He certainly should not tolerate others bidding on his restricted players, driving up the price.

If they don't make any bids they can't get in a bidding war. And then Indiana can him for the Mav's price without driving it up

8305 wrote:Maybe get Roy at 12 mil/yr and Hill at 7 mil/yr. If you have to match someone else it could be more expensive.

I believe Hill turned down an offer of 7 before the season began.

^^^^^

Wizop wrote:I believe Hill turned down an offer of 7 before the season began.

I concur.

I don't know the exact amount Hibbert rejected though.

DWCP2 wrote:

Scoot McGroot wrote:

Boneman2 wrote:Sure the paying customer won't be happy if we lose Hill, but they would if we could turn him into Milsap.

Same goes with Hibbert. I know he is a rarity, but some of the offers I've seen for him on the trade board (ie J.Smith + #23, or Kanter, Milsap, + filler) have led me to reconsider my commitment to him.

Does anyone know the answer to this scenario? Granted, we can match any offer if another team agrees to pay Roy 60 mill/ over 4 seasons. But, can we match the offer with the intentions of signing and then trading him (S&T)? Honestly, if he has the audacity to sign with another team, I don't want him.

Regardless, even if a S&T isn't allowed I would collude with multiple teams in letting them know Roy could be available for the right price, once we're able to trade him. Meaning Larry should match any offer.

The Mavericks are not a top flight destination, they will have to go back to the draft after they blow up their disabled roster.

No. You cannot match an offer and then trade him elsewhere in one fell swoop. You can, however, match the offer, but I believe the player would not be tradable until January of that season, and he would NOT be eligible to be traded to the team that signed him to the offer sheet.

Technically yes the Pacers can. However when you match a contract offer,there are two restrictions, both for one calender year from the contract date matched.

1. You can't trade the player without his written consent.

2. You can't trade the player to the team that you matched the offer towards.

Bone asked if you could match the offer sheet the player signed elsewhere, and then immediately force them elsewhere in a forced S&T in one swoop. Not waiting a couple months. Not waiting a year. Just in one swoop. Essentially, he asked if Hibbert signed an offer sheet with Dallas, could we match it and instead trade him to Atlanta for Josh Smith without Roy's consent. The answer to that, is no.

Scoot McGroot wrote:

DWCP2 wrote:

Scoot McGroot wrote:No. You cannot match an offer and then trade him elsewhere in one fell swoop. You can, however, match the offer, but I believe the player would not be tradable until January of that season, and he would NOT be eligible to be traded to the team that signed him to the offer sheet.

Technically yes the Pacers can. However when you match a contract offer,there are two restrictions, both for one calender year from the contract date matched.

1. You can't trade the player without his written consent.

2. You can't trade the player to the team that you matched the offer towards.

Bone asked if you could match the offer sheet the player signed elsewhere, and then immediately force them elsewhere in a forced S&T in one swoop. Not waiting a couple months. Not waiting a year. Just in one swoop. Essentially, he asked if Hibbert signed an offer sheet with Dallas, could we match it and instead trade him to Atlanta for Josh Smith without Roy's consent. The answer to that, is no.

The rules that apply take two steps:

If the team matches an offer sheet and retains their free agent, then for one year they cannot trade him without his consent, and cannot trade him at all to the team that signed him to an offer sheet. They also can't trade the player in a sign-and-trade transaction.

Since the player cannot be traded in a sign-and-trade, then matching the offer sheet basically makes the signing fall under this rule:

(a player cannot be traded) For three months or until December 15 of that season (whichever is later) after signing a contract as a free agent or matching an offer sheet to a restricted free agent.

An actual offer sheet is a serious thing. Once it's signed, then the player will either end up with the team that made the offer sheet, or his original team.