Reclamation projects, Busts, Low-risk, High-reward guys

[jowglenn]

In this thread, let's bring up the guys that Indy could grab as cheap free agents to be like, the 12th man, but who could (at least theoretically) end up surprising everyone and being better than we thought.

I am looking for guys that shouldn't even be on an NBA roster, but you think might still have something in the tank. Some where we can sign them to unguanteed types of deals, and cut them if they don't work out.

I'll start with a few:

Brandon Roy

His is an injury issue. He'd fit perfectly, being the scorer off the bench that Barbosa was supposed to be last year. He's got the Pritchard connection.

Greg Oden

Not expected to even play this year. May never play again. But might it be worth it to bring him in and have him around and such, so he can recover, rebuild, rejuvenate in his home confines of Indianapolis? Also has the Pritchard connection.

Now it gets weird...

Hasheem Thabeet

You can't teach height! Is it possible that this guy still has some potential left? From what I've heard, it wasn't his physical skills that screwed him, it was his personal laziness and so on. But is it possible that he'll grow up a bit, realizing that his NBA career is all but over after only a few short years? He could potentially learn a lot from Roy.

Jonny Flynn

Still only 23 years old! Could replace AJ Price?

Michael Redd

He had a bit of a resurgence with phoenix (could be the medical staff) as a scorer off the bench. We had interest in him last year.

Daniel Orton

Only 21 years old, big man.

Jared Jeffries

Not really a bust, would need a real contract, but could be a backup big man who plays defense. Indiana guy.

Anthony "Magic" Randolph

We had our eye on him before, and I doubt Minnesota keeps him. He could be had for cheap and could be an interesting player. We all saw what he was doing in GSW a few years ago, what happened there? STILL only 22 years old. I really am interested in this guy.

Kwame Brown

We need a backup center, don't we?

Hamed Haddadi

Again, you can't teach height.

Yi Jianlian

The chairman! Could get us a bit of the chinese love, I guess. Still only 24! (25? 26? 27?)

Johan Petro

Not a FA, but Nets would be happy to give him to us. Tall!

Semih Erden

Grab part of the Turkish market. Guy is big.

John Lucas III

Filled in well as the backup backup in Chicago. Could take all the AJ Price minutes.

Ryan Hollins

Not a bust, just the ultimate journeyman center. I liked what I saw from him in Boston.






Thoughts?

[Crowman]

Good thread i wouldnt mind if we took a flyer on Magic Randolph he can play PF/C

Kellena Azubuike could be a great guy off the bench for us with his scoring ability

[Indy2thaWindy]

Daniel Orton probably should never get another contract in the NBA.

[Scoot McGroot]

Kellena Azubuike could be a great guy off the bench for us with his scoring ability

Azubuike has a guaranteed contract for next year with the Mavericks. Probably easy to get, but would require a trade and giving up something to get him.

[jowglenn]

Seriously, Anthony Randolph has gotta be under consideration. At first I was like, "nah, he was a bust after he left golden state" but then I looked it up and the guy is only 22!!!! Only 22!!!!!

Somewhere, sometime, he is absolutely going to be an impact player in this league, so why not now with the pacers?

[Wizop]

I'd add Fesenko to the list. He needs a summer of training but I'd rather go with the devil I know before looking at guys like Thabeet and Petro. I'd also rather look at some really veteran players on their last legs like Camby before looking at a young guy who has never shown anything. local boy Oden would be the one exception.

[8305]

Not convinced on Anthony Randolph. Its hard to know if he is the unmotivated not particularly instinctive guy they saw in New York or the guy who was simply the odd mad out in Minnesota. Adding him would be like bringing in another rookie from an experience and developmental standpoint.

I hadn't thought of Jefferies but that idea is interesting to me. Assuming we can add that scoring wing to supplement the scoring Collison brings off the bench a versitle defensive big would be a really solid addition. Can't imagine Jefferies would cost much and returning to Indiana could be attractive to him.

I'll add another name, Rudy Fernandez

Pritchard drafted him and there was a time when everyone was high on him. I think he can create a shot off the dribble and shoot from distance. He's had a knack for being the odd man out every place he's been. I'd be more optomistic this might work than that Brandon will play meaning basketball again. Could he become the guy we needed Barbosa to be last year?

[Indy2thaWindy]

Randolph is better than Hansbrough. He was never gonna play in Minnesota behind Love and Williams. But in the 9 games he played 20+ minutes in last season he averaged 16.2ppg/6.6rpg/2.2bpg on 55% shooting and about 82% from the free throw line on about 5 free throw attempts per game in 27.6 minutes.

Here are Hansbrough's numbers in games he played 20+ minutes in last season 10.4ppg/5rpg/.2bpg on 40% shooting and about 83% free throw shooting on 4.3 free throw attempts per game in 24.6 minutes.

Randolph usually produces when he gets to play, while Hansbrough doesn't. Randolph has been in terrible situations the last few years. He's much better than Hansbrough.

[jowglenn]

Randolph is better than Hansbrough. He was never gonna play in Minnesota behind Love and Williams. But in the 9 games he played 20+ minutes in last season he averaged 16.2ppg/6.6rpg/2.2bpg on 55% shooting and about 82% from the free throw line on about 5 free throw attempts per game in 27.6 minutes.

Here are Hansbrough's numbers in games he played 20+ minutes in last season 10.4ppg/5rpg/.2bpg on 40% shooting and about 83% free throw shooting on 4.3 free throw attempts per game in 24.6 minutes.

Randolph usually produces when he gets to play, while Hansbrough doesn't. Randolph has been in terrible situations the last few years. He's much better than Hansbrough.

Everything you just said!!!! The guy is 22, and when he gets to play, he produces. I would just ditch Hansbrough entirely and take Magic Randolph.

[8305]

Can Randolph function in an offense predicated on ball movement? Wasn't that his problem in New York? New York had alot invested in Randolph so in that case it was probably more on him that things didn't work out. I think he's a 4. Is he strong enough to control defensive rebounds? To get playing time that's a deal breaker.

At the right price he could be an interesting flyer. I dont rule out he could blow up. But him being a better player for us than Hansbrough isn't a slam dunk for me.

[Indy2thaWindy]

Can Randolph function in an offense predicated on ball movement?

Hansbrough can't. He's one of the biggest blackholes I've ever seen.

Wasn't that his problem in New York? New York had alot invested in Randolph so in that case it was probably more on him that things didn't work out.

They didn't invest anything in him. They were gonna let David Lee walk and Golden State threw in Randolph so they could get Lee. New York didn't invest anything in him really. They then got Stoudemire.

I think he's a 4. Is he strong enough to control defensive rebounds? To get playing time that's a deal breaker.

Hansbrough is one of the worst defensive rebounding bigs in the league. Watch the games. Nobody gives up more offensive rebounds to his man than Hansbrough. That has never held him back from getting playing time.

So every negative you want to see in Randolph's game is already a huge hole in Hansbrough's game. He hasn't really had a chance since back when he was in Golden State and that wasn't much of a chance at all. Hansbrough has had every chance to get better. He hasn't. he's just not a good player. He's in his prime and he should probably be a 5th big on a playoff team. Randolph is a young, talented player who hasn't really been given much of a chance but when has gotten real playing time, not just spot minutes, he has proven he can produce and be effective.

[Indy2thaWindy]

Randolph had a 17.5 defensive rebounding rate last season and a career defensive rebound rate 21.4

Tyler had a 13.7 defensive rebounding rate last season and a career defensive rebound rate 15.1

Hansbrough's a bad defensive rebounder, bad defender, and his efficiency is beyond awful.

His career TS% is .508 and his eFG% .425

A inefficient chucker like Jamal Crawford has a career TS% of .525 and an eFG% of .474

I don't get how people can think bums like Hansbrough and Collison are actually good. These dudes are terrible.

[Scoot McGroot]

I'll add another name, Rudy Fernandez

He's got a standing offer from Real Madrid of 6 yr/$25+ million. Going to have to beat that, at the least.

Marco Belinelli could be a different option, though, and he presents a somewhat similar skill set.

[Scoot McGroot]

Randolph is better than Hansbrough. He was never gonna play in Minnesota behind Love and Williams. But in the 9 games he played 20+ minutes in last season he averaged 16.2ppg/6.6rpg/2.2bpg on 55% shooting and about 82% from the free throw line on about 5 free throw attempts per game in 27.6 minutes.

Here are Hansbrough's numbers in games he played 20+ minutes in last season 10.4ppg/5rpg/.2bpg on 40% shooting and about 83% free throw shooting on 4.3 free throw attempts per game in 24.6 minutes.

Randolph usually produces when he gets to play, while Hansbrough doesn't. Randolph has been in terrible situations the last few years. He's much better than Hansbrough.

Which games did Randolph get 20+ minutes? Games in which Kevin Love or Amare Stoudemire were not playing at all. Those two teams had offenses predicated around the PF, and when teams forced the ball through him, he put up 16/6, about on par with Josh Harrelson in NY when he got 20+ minutes.


I'm not saying he's a waste. I think he'd be a solid pickup as our combo 3/4 kind of guy. However, Randolph's issue has NEVER been talent. It's been the fact that he doesn't know where to put himself on the court. He doesn't ALWAYS produce. He's like a much less talented Javale McGee. You just don't know what you're going to get from him in boneheaded plays, or lack of effort, on any given night. You can afford to have ONE of those types of guys on your roster, but ONLY one. Thus, we would have to really watch who we draft (i.e., have to draft a young, intelligent player who knows what to do) as well as who we would possibly sign in free agency.

However, if we have intentions of developing Pendergraph as a 4/5 in this league, he's going to need minutes, and as such, wouldn't leave much minutes to develop Randolph.


Randolph is surely MUCH more talented than Hansbrough. However, he's not even close to the player Hansbrough is. Randolph has a much higher ceiling if he could EVER put it all together mentally, but he's much more likely to simply be out of the league in a year or two. Hansbrough is consistent enough in talent and work ethic that he will never have the ceiling Randolph could, but Hansbrough will carve out a 10-12 year career because he will always earn minutes with effort.

[8305]

Can Randolph function in an offense predicated on ball movement?

Hansbrough can't. He's one of the biggest blackholes I've ever seen.

Wasn't that his problem in New York? New York had alot invested in Randolph so in that case it was probably more on him that things didn't work out.

They didn't invest anything in him. They were gonna let David Lee walk and Golden State threw in Randolph so they could get Lee. New York didn't invest anything in him really. They then got Stoudemire.

I think he's a 4. Is he strong enough to control defensive rebounds? To get playing time that's a deal breaker.

Hansbrough is one of the worst defensive rebounding bigs in the league. Watch the games. Nobody gives up more offensive rebounds to his man than Hansbrough. That has never held him back from getting playing time.

So every negative you want to see in Randolph's game is already a huge hole in Hansbrough's game. He hasn't really had a chance since back when he was in Golden State and that wasn't much of a chance at all. Hansbrough has had every chance to get better. He hasn't. he's just not a good player. He's in his prime and he should probably be a 5th big on a playoff team. Randolph is a young, talented player who hasn't really been given much of a chance but when has gotten real playing time, not just spot minutes, he has proven he can produce and be effective.

Didn't mean to imply that Hansbrough is good at those things. I agree he isn't. But, it sounds like we agree that we need someone who would improve bench productivity in those areas. Counting on Randolph to be that guy? I just don't see it. Like I said you could take a flyer on him but you better realize that's what it is.

I don't think you can load you bench rotation up with guys who are still learning. Unless you don't care about winning games. LIke Scoot said if you were bringing in Randolph with the thought of developing him whoever you draft better not be a guy with a lot to learn. I'd be thinking Robbie Hummel or Jordan Taylor (4 year extremely high iq players)

[Indy2thaWindy]

Hansbrough really hasn't earned anything. He's a terrible offensive player. Bad defender and a bad defensive rebounder. After last season he really shouldn't be in the rotation.

And Randolph has produced his entire career when he gets playing time. He's played over 20 mpg in 65 of 170 career games. In those 65 games he's put up 14.6ppg/8.1rpg/1.4apg/1.0spg/1.8bpg on 48.4% shooting and 78.5% from the free throw line. And if you question his basketball IQ, you have to do the same to Hansbrough.

[8305]

Hansbrough really hasn't earned anything. He's a terrible offensive player. Bad defender and a bad defensive rebounder. After last season he really shouldn't be in the rotation.

And Randolph has produced his entire career when he gets playing time. He's played over 20 mpg in 65 of 170 career games. In those 65 games he's put up 14.6ppg/8.1rpg/1.4apg/1.0spg/1.8bpg on 48.4% shooting and 78.5% from the free throw line. And if you question his basketball IQ, you have to do the same to Hansbrough.

Probably shoouldn't do this (ask a question to which I don't know the answer) but here goes, how many of those 65 games in which Randolph played 20 min or more did his team win? Here's another one, has Randolph ever knocked anyone down, gotten under their skin, etc. Maybe a better question, could he knock someone down if he wanted to? Pacers aspire to a calling card of smash mouth basketball. Will Randloph do that better than Hansbrough?

[Indy2thaWindy]

So you want Hansbrough because he can knock someone down? Has he ever even done that? I mean that says it all. He sucks but you want him because he can knock somebody down. If that's what you want then that's what you want.

[8305]

Actually, I not crazy about Hansbrough at this point either. If we had another offensive player coming off the bench I'd role with Amundson over Hansbrough. You guys may be right about Randolph. But, physically gifted as he is I think he would have gotten more of an opportunity than he has by now were it not for a lack of fundamental skills and bbiq. Often times those types struggle to ever make it and teams that invest a lot of time in them aren't rewarded.

[Scoot McGroot]

Hansbrough really hasn't earned anything. He's a terrible offensive player. Bad defender and a bad defensive rebounder. After last season he really shouldn't be in the rotation.

And Randolph has produced his entire career when he gets playing time. He's played over 20 mpg in 65 of 170 career games. In those 65 games he's put up 14.6ppg/8.1rpg/1.4apg/1.0spg/1.8bpg on 48.4% shooting and 78.5% from the free throw line. And if you question his basketball IQ, you have to do the same to Hansbrough.

Really? I'm not sure we're watching the same Anthony Randolph and Tyler Hansbroughs. There's really no argument. Tyler at least has a head for the game right now and works hard every night. Anthony Randolph has, and does, neither.


Why has Anthony Randolph only played in 170 career games out of a possible 272? Why has he never earned consistent minutes despite playing on 3 different rosters, and playing under several managers that he SHOULD have fit perfectly under. If he produces every time he's gotten minutes, why isn't he a superstar? He has the raw talent. Why wouldn't a coach play him 40 minutes a night if he played so great?

You think coaches are holding him back just so he can make them look bad and get them fired? I'm not so sure you understand "survival instinct". Generally coaches will play the players that will NOT get them fired. That should say something. This isn't an under-used Jermaine O'Neal we are talking about rotting away on Portland's bench under all-star caliber players. This is Anthony Randolph not being able to beat out 2nd or 3rd string players for even scrap minutes.