Offensive system

n_s_s31 · Post #1 » by **n_s_s31** » Tue Nov 6, 2012 6:03 pm

The biggest concern I have so far this year is that the Pacers have completely lacked anything that resembles an offensive system. It really just looks like we are playing a pick up game. The ball doesn't move quickly and players don't move very much either. I've watched several games from other teams and all of our games and even the teams that will finish with a worse record have better offensive systems and philosophies. We have so many players that can do just about everything on the basketball court but Vogel doesn't seem interested in dictating to his players what there role should be. To me the turnovers are a result of players not being taught a specific system with a defined role. We're talented enough that we'll be a good team regardless of this but we won't be a real contender until Vogel (or a new coach) is willing to be a little more strict on defining player roles. This is what makes teams like San Antonio and Miami so good. They have players who are asked to do very specific things. If they get the opportunity to do more then great but there primary job is very specific.

Wizop · Post #2 » by **Wizop** » Tue Nov 6, 2012 7:52 pm

I watched little of the Spurs game choosing to stick with MNF when it became clear that we were in trouble, but based on prior games I think a major problem is lack of a zone offense. we had trouble with zones last year and I put the lack of practice against them down to a short season and limited practice. however, it looks like there is a trend in the league toward more zone being played and we're still lost against them. I hope it will be a point of emphasis in coming practices.

maljanNBAfan · Post #3 » by **maljanNBAfan** » Tue Nov 6, 2012 9:36 pm

I think the bigger problem is Roy Hibbert, who looked completely out of it on what better be a low point statistically for him this season.

Post #4 » by **Grang33r** » Wed Nov 7, 2012 6:33 am

Good topic. I was actually just talking to somebody about this the other day.

The Pacers do seem to have a plan offensively, however it seems we play or try to play the triangle offense. Which would make you suggest that Brian Shaw is having a big part of the offense since he worked with it and learned from Phil Jackson in Las Angeles. As someone pointed out to me, it does make sense for us to play it, because at every position we have a player that can post-up. So in reality, it is wise for Indiana to try it, because all 5 of our starters can post-up, and this offense is all about posting up. And, when perfected, the offense is elite.

The problem with this though, is, we may not have the right guy teaching the offense. Not underestimating Shaw, but it's one thing learning it from a guy such as Shaw, then a proven/mastermind of the offense like a Phil Jackson. Also, historically, this offense doesn't usually succeed very often without a superstar player. Which we obviously lack.

Post #5 » by **Gremz** » Wed Nov 7, 2012 12:42 pm

I think with all things we have to give it time. Having Granger unavailable is really hurting the offense and it seems that with a few new plays that the guys are struggling to get a hold of the offense.

Give it time, it's only been 4 games after all.

n_s_s31 · Post #6 » by **n_s_s31** » Wed Nov 7, 2012 4:42 pm

Grang33r wrote:Good topic. I was actually just talking to somebody about this the other day.

The Pacers do seem to have a plan offensively, however it seems we play or try to play the triangle offense. Which would make you suggest that Brian Shaw is having a big part of the offense since he worked with it and learned from Phil Jackson in Las Angeles. As someone pointed out to me, it does make sense for us to play it, because at every position we have a player that can post-up. So in reality, it is wise for Indiana to try it, because all 5 of our starters can post-up, and this offense is all about posting up. And, when perfected, the offense is elite.

The problem with this though, is, we may not have the right guy teaching the offense. Not underestimating Shaw, but it's one thing learning it from a guy such as Shaw, then a proven/mastermind of the offense like a Phil Jackson. Also, historically, this offense doesn't usually succeed very often without a superstar player. Which we obviously lack.

I think this could be true. It could just be player confusion and not knowing the offense well enough. Our offense just seems very random. I agree with the fact that we have several players capable of posting up. The problem though is that we rarely are able to go to the post effectively. Every single one of our starters can be a post up player, spot up shooter, Isolate, or facilitator and I think that is actually hurting us right now. Instead of making us unpredictable, it makes our players confused. They don't know exactly what they should be doing in a given situation. It seems wierd on the surface but think I would actually like to see the lineups messed with a little bit to pair more "limited" players with the versatile ones. There are several ways to go about this and some may even be unpopular with the players, but it just seems like to me it would cause less confusion.
One option would be to bring David West off the bench. Put Mahinmi in the starting lineup. The only reason I think this is beneficial is that it makes player roles more defined. This allows a situation where when West is in the game he is THE go to guy, with the starters it allows Paul George and Roy to know they have to be more aggressive because they now became a clearly defined 1 and 2. Another thing I may like to see is DJ starting at point guard and Hill starting at SG while Granger is out. We are so talented but our lineups seem too convoluted for whatever system we are trying to run to actually work. I could be completely wrong but this is just what i've seen.