Time to get a True Point Guard

celtspacers · Post #1 » by **celtspacers** » Mon Jan 21, 2013 9:28 pm

Pacers still need a point guard. George Hill he dribbles and looks to score to much. He reminds me of Travis Best more every game. He slows offence down to much. Team could score alot more with a good point guard running the offence. Hill will be alot better at shooting guard.

Post #2 » by **pacers33granger** » Mon Jan 21, 2013 10:40 pm

That's a big reason I've been such a proponent of the Calderon/Ross for Granger deal. Maybe we could get Ridnour?

Post #3 » by **pacers33granger** » Mon Jan 21, 2013 10:42 pm

Also it is Hill's first year as playing mainly point. Granger not playing has to effect him as well.

Post #4 » by **Jake0890** » Mon Jan 21, 2013 11:15 pm

I'd love to have a true PG, but there's no deal I've seen that is very lucrative to me. I don't like Calderon, and Ridnour is sketchy. Hill at PG is working, and I think Vogel is committed to him playing point. I think our lack of offensive production has more to do with the repetition of isos and PnRs over and over again. Any team knows what we're going to do on offense before we do it.

I'm not willing to part with Granger to get a PG until Hill proves he really shouldn't be playing point

celtspacers · Post #5 » by **celtspacers** » Mon Jan 21, 2013 11:40 pm

Hills already proven he cant play point guard. He cant pass the ball and really doesn't want to. He wants to score.

Post #6 » by **Jake0890** » Mon Jan 21, 2013 11:42 pm

celtspacers wrote:Hills already proven he cant play point guard. He cant pass the ball and really doesn't want to. He wants to score.

But he does get assists, and it's working... We're 3rd in the East. Do you really want to send our leading scorer last year to get some mediocre point guard?

Pacersike · Post #7 » by **Pacersike** » Mon Jan 21, 2013 11:56 pm

I would love to get Jarrett Jack back. He is big enough for our offense and he and Hill can play together on the court and finish games together. Neither is a great ballhandler + decisionmaker but also combined with Paul George you can choose who you want to create the offense in the final minutes, depending on who doesn't have the best defender on him.

The Warriors need to trade some players if they want to re-sign Jack if I'm not mistaken. He could be a reason why Augustin only got 1 year from us and didn't seem motivated until they benched his tushy.

PacersPete · Post #8 » by **PacersPete** » Tue Jan 22, 2013 2:17 am

When granger comes back, i think lance should be given some looks at point guard. He's a better playmaker and ball handler.

Post #9 » by **Jake0890** » Tue Jan 22, 2013 2:19 am

PacersPete wrote:When granger comes back, i think lance should be given some looks at point guard. He's a better playmaker and ball handler.

He is not a better ball handler or play maker. Come on now. He is less of a PG than Hill is.

PacersPete · Post #10 » by **PacersPete** » Tue Jan 22, 2013 2:50 am

He has shown flashes of great court vision and passing ability many times. I think if he gets some real experience at point he can hone it. I liked what i saw in summer league. It wouldn't hurt to give him some of djs minutes off the bench to start

PacersPete · Post #11 » by **PacersPete** » Tue Jan 22, 2013 2:55 am

Hill has the worst court vision i've ever seen from a starting point guard. He obviously a shooting guard trying to play point

rmdlwajazz · Post #12 » by **rmdlwajazz** » Tue Jan 22, 2013 4:06 am

Mo Williams?

chatard5 · Post #13 » by **chatard5** » Tue Jan 22, 2013 4:34 am

Hill had 8 turnovers today which sucked. But I like him a lot. I wouldn't be 100% against trading Granger for a very good PG, but Calderon is not the guy. We would need someone better, particularly defensively. Hill is very good defensively. I don't know if he would be as good on 2s. We are going to win by defense. Obviously to have a chance we need size and defense against the Heat. With Granger coming back that only makes us bigger and better, plus Lance can come off the bench wherever he is most comfortable and hopefully get 10 points a game or so.

So I would trade Granger for a PG, but they have to be very good-especially defensively. Hill could guard Wade, and he might anyways because of his quickness. But Granger would be even better. Paul George is showing how he is one of the best on defense. I really think we have 3 guys who could be 1st or 2nd team all-defense (definitely Hibbert and George and then Hill is up there as well). As long as Granger is healthy we have one of the best defenses ever.

I don't know if you guys saw/read the article on Grantland from a week or 2 ago. It said we are the 8th best defense, according to computers, since they added the 3-pt line. That is very impressive and we have kept up the D since that article. Paul George has been playing better offensively-hopefully good enough. And with the emergence of Paul George I think Granger can get some open 3s which we all know he can knock down. It'd be great if coming back from injury if Granger can focus on defense and then get some open 3-pt shots.

I assume it was posted but here is the article: http://www.grantland.com/story/_/id/884 ... tle-season

We played the other great defensive team on the road and won. They have very good big guys who we dominated. If we make a move we better make sure they aren't a huge liability on defense.

Side note: Can Paul George guard Lebron for a series? Maybe have Granger on him, if healthy, for a few minutes a game so George isn't out of energy at the end of every game and possibly the end of the series. Or if they play small do we keep West on him and have Hibbert down low ready to block shots?

Post #14 » by **Jake0890** » Tue Jan 22, 2013 1:10 pm

chatard5 wrote:Side note: Can Paul George guard Lebron for a series? Maybe have Granger on him, if healthy, for a few minutes a game so George isn't out of energy at the end of every game and possibly the end of the series. Or if they play small do we keep West on him and have Hibbert down low ready to block shots?

Nah, you can't have West guard LeBron. LeBron is just too fast and athletic. We would have to have George guard LeBron, Hibbert on Bosh, and Stephenson (or Granger, if healthy) on Wade.

Wizop · Post #15 » by **Wizop** » Tue Jan 22, 2013 8:29 pm

I see no need to give anything up to get a point guard now that Augustin has become serviceable. I wish we'd kept Price but we're okay for now. that said, I can see looking at a point guard in the draft as we really don't have any other holes as long as West is resigned.

laydo · Post #16 » by **laydo** » Wed Jan 23, 2013 5:53 am

George Hill is fine and the Pacers don't need a "true" point guard.

Remember how awkward T.J. Ford and Darren Collison look like when they in the Pacers?

And check out Jack, Price and Hill. Combo guards is what the Pacers need now.

chube · Post #17 » by **chube** » Wed Jan 23, 2013 6:30 am

Agreed. For the Pacers system, a "true" point guard isn't necessary. Would it be nice? Sure. Would it be a bad thing if the Pacers had a Rondo, Chris Paul, or Jason Kidd on the roster? Absolutely not. To me, it's been like that pretty much post-Rick Carlisle. O'Brien's system (as bad as it was) didn't rely on that and point guard stats reflected that. T.J. Ford averaged more than 5 assists a game only once as a Pacers, whereas he averaged as much as nearly 8 a game his last year in Toronto. Darren Collison was kind of the same way. Solid floor general (best Indy has had since Mark Jackson) and averaged just under 5 assists a game in his 2 years here.

Vogel's Pacers win games so frequently on a slower pace, grind-it-out half-court sets (which with effective albeit slower ball movement means less assists), and defense. A combo scoring guard like Hill (and he falls into the class of Deron Williams, Brandon Jennings, Steph Curry, Russell Westbrook, Derrick Rose) who can run the floor is more and more common nowadays. In some ways, it's better. Another scoring option.

PacersPete · Post #18 » by **PacersPete** » Wed Jan 23, 2013 9:51 pm

They don't need a pass first point guard but they need someone with at least average court vision. Hill can not even pass the ball on a fast break. He does hurt the offense

PacersPete · Post #19 » by **PacersPete** » Wed Jan 23, 2013 9:51 pm

They don't need a pass first point guard but they need someone with at least average court vision. Hill can not even pass the ball on a fast break. He does hurt the offense

FreeRon · Post #20 » by **FreeRon** » Thu Jan 24, 2013 3:24 am

As much as I'd like to magically turn Granger into a SG, I have misplaced my wand. Plan B is trading Granger for Russell Westbrook, but that also looks unlikely. Realistically, as much as I hate it, I don't see George doing well moving back to the 2. I also don't see us getting anything for Granger at this point. I'm sure interest is very high because everyone wants to give us a top-59 protected pick and cash considerations, but that's not going to help us. We have bigger needs to address in the offseason. There are a lot of big men expected to be drafted this year. Jeff Withey looks to be realistic (style like Serge Ibaka, talent not so much), as does Victor Oladipo (great defender who can shoot the 3 if open). If we have to trade Granger, I see best case scenario as a late first rounder and a TPE. Assuming we COULD get that deal, is that the sort of thing you all are looking for? Short of Trey Burke dropping to us, a backup 4/5 and (assuming Granger/George doesn't work) a defensive 2 is what I would look for this offseason. Please don't kill me, I don't claim to be an expert.