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Connecting the dots on a couple of rumors.

Orlando has offered #4, #12 and Aaran Affallo for #1. Seems like an overpay but I'll role with that. LeBron has opted out motivating Cleveland to craft the best roster possible to entice him back home. Pacers conclude that Roy Hibbert does in fact need a change of sceanry. The Trade:

Cleveland trades: Jarred Jack, Anderson Vearajao and pick #1
Cleveland receives: Aaran Affallo and Roy Hibbert

Orlando trades: Aaran Affallo, pick 4 and pick 12
Orlando receives: Pick 1

Pacers trade: Roy Hibbert
Pacers receive: Pick 4, pick 12, Jarred Jack, Anderson Verajao

If you are going to move Roy it would take a package like this and Noah Vonleigh did work out here for some unexplained reason. How would you spend the picks?

No way Cleaveland gives us the #4 and #12 and Jack and AV for Hibbert.

I thought we were adding value by taking the contracts of AV and Jack. Is that not the case?

Varejao is still a decent player and his contract is only guaranteed for like 4 mil or so this coming year. At worst he's neutral value, but I think he still has some value and Jack's contract isn't insanely awful, especially for a team that doesn't have much other money on the books outside of rookie deals.

Doesn't Cleveland have cap holds on Deng and Hawes that they would need to renounce to persue James and would moving Jack and AV create some flexibility with two better players? Maybe I'm reaching now and if the concept can't be sold here....

I could see them possibly doing it without 4 coming to us (so they end up with 1, Jack, Varejao for Afflalo, 4, Hibbert) if they're likely not going to take 5, Favors, and another first or Burks for 1, Jack.

I don't think Cleveland has any qualms about renouncing either of Deng (who likely won't come back anyways unless they massively overpay him) or Hawes. They really didn't give up too much for either of them and both likely won't be worth more than the space to them.

I also think they're confident they can move Jack without adding too much incentive (they have a ton of future picks still and he's overpaid, but a good backup pg). I would be shocked if they needed to add assets to move Varejao. A team with a third big need and a large TPE would probably bite especially since he's expiring. I'm sure Boston would take him for free, OKC would probably give assets (though they'd have to take on Perkins).

Varejao and Jack definitely both still have value. In fact, Varejao probably holds more value on his own than Roy.

There's no way this ever happens, but I guess we can dream.

8305 wrote:I thought we were adding value by taking the contracts of AV and Jack. Is that not the case?

What? Jack may have some value but AV can be cut about 1/2 of his final year is not guaranteed. I repeat no way Cleveland does that deal. They might do #12, Jack and AV for Hibbert but if they want to clear salary they should just dump AV after the trade with Orlando.

AV and #12 to Boston for Kelly Olynyk, Keith Bogans and #17. Bogans' contract is 100% not guaranteed.

8305 wrote:Doesn't Cleveland have cap holds on Deng and Hawes that they would need to renounce to persue James and would moving Jack and AV create some flexibility with two better players? Maybe I'm reaching now and if the concept can't be sold here....

If they are trying to sign LBJ they can Renounce their rights to Deng and Hawes.

Clearly I should have looked at Cleveland's cap situation before suggesting this. They could absorb Roy straight up for a pick and still have plenty of space to persue LeBron.

Roy for pick 4? Wishful thinkig?

8305 wrote:Clearly I should have looked at Cleveland's cap situation before suggesting this. They could absorb Roy straight up for a pick and still have plenty of space to persue LeBron.

Roy for pick 4? Wishful thinkig?

Unless Lebron is signing for less than $8m, that's not the case.

Jack has little value on the market with his contract. Varejao could, but he's in the bad middle ground. As a player, his value is limited by being an expiring and being so unhealthy. As a contract, he's only $4m guaranteed, but you don't get to play him in doing so. Tough market.


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if we're dreaming, how about some Love.

Scoot McGroot wrote:

8305 wrote:Clearly I should have looked at Cleveland's cap situation before suggesting this. They could absorb Roy straight up for a pick and still have plenty of space to persue LeBron.

Roy for pick 4? Wishful thinkig?

Unless Lebron is signing for less than $8m, that's not the case.

Jack has little value on the market with his contract. Varejao could, but he's in the bad middle ground. As a player, his value is limited by being an expiring and being so unhealthy. As a contract, he's only $4m guaranteed, but you don't get to play him in doing so. Tough market.


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So does that mean my original premise isn't that far fetched? Cleveland wants James but, James will want to come to a situation where he hits the ground running. If Cleveland could assemble a foursome of
C Hibbert
PF Thompson
SG Affallo
PG Irving

This would be represent a near perfect starting five into which LeBron could fit. Good to great defensive and offensive support. Eliminating those pesky salaries of Jack and AV would be important to them. And, Indiana provides both a key piece of the talent puzzle and solves the salary dilema. That would be worth pretty significant compensation. That was the theory anyway.

8305 wrote:

Scoot McGroot wrote:

8305 wrote:Clearly I should have looked at Cleveland's cap situation before suggesting this. They could absorb Roy straight up for a pick and still have plenty of space to persue LeBron.

Roy for pick 4? Wishful thinkig?

Unless Lebron is signing for less than $8m, that's not the case.

Jack has little value on the market with his contract. Varejao could, but he's in the bad middle ground. As a player, his value is limited by being an expiring and being so unhealthy. As a contract, he's only $4m guaranteed, but you don't get to play him in doing so. Tough market.


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So does that mean my original premise isn't that far fetched? Cleveland wants James but, James will want to come to a situation where he hits the ground running. If Cleveland could assemble a foursome of
C Hibbert
PF Thompson
SG Affallo
PG Irving

This would be represent a near perfect starting five into which LeBron could fit. Good to great defensive and offensive support. Eliminating those pesky salaries of Jack and AV would be important to them. And, Indiana provides both a key piece of the talent puzzle and solves the salary dilema. That would be worth pretty significant compensation. That was the theory anyway.

Well, Varejao would likely be one of the more intriguing teammate for him, as they already played together, and Lebron loves Andy.

Otherwise, I'm not sure that Cleveland could assemble that lineup you listed and still have cap space to sign Lebron.


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Guessing they could pay him more than he'd be getting in Miami once everyone restructures enough to have the cap space needed for their anticipated 2014 summer shopping spree.

8305 wrote:Guessing they could pay him more than he'd be getting in Miami once everyone restructures enough to have the cap space needed for their anticipated 2014 summer shopping spree.

In that trade scenario? No, Cleveland would max out at $8m. If Miami guys get together and take less to get Melo or Lowry, they'd each make around $12-14m.


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I thought when I looked at the Hoopshype site that Cav's 2014-15 salary committements totaled 32 mil? Probably a moot point anyway. Affallo has been delt someplace else and I think someone mentioned Roy's contract has a trade kicker bringing his salary up over 17 mil if traded.

8305 wrote:I thought when I looked at the Hoopshype site that Cav's 2014-15 salary committements totaled 32 mil? Probably a moot point anyway. Affallo has been delt someplace else and I think someone mentioned Roy's contract has a trade kicker bringing his salary up over 17 mil if traded.

They're at $47m for next season without the #1 salary, or accounting for Gee's non-guaranteed $3m or Varejao's $4m partial guarantee.

Hoops hype has awful salaries. Use Mark Deek's site (Shamsports.com) instead. Infinitely better, including full details on partial guarantees and whatnot if you hover over the players name with your mouse.


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Good to know, thanks.