Pacers offered Hibbert, Cope, Cash for Dragic. Suns Decline.

[Jake0890]

Here's the article, it's in Slovenian:
http://www.ekipa24.si/clanek/kosarka/reprezentancna-kosarka/53e48ab0dbdbd/dragic

A direct (google translated) quote:

Among other things, the Phoenix for Dragic offered Roy Hibbert and Chris Copeland . "And some money," says Dragic

[Boneman2]

Dragic sounded like he'd like to play here, unless his comment was lost in translation.

[SmashMouthRod]

I dont think that wouldve been a good deal at all. Hibbert and Cope with cash for Dragic? Is Dragic that good? He is very good in uptempo offenses. But what about when the game slows down? Would a George Hill/Goran Dragic backcourt be good enough to have lost Hibbert? Im glad Phoenix rejected. Larry got the team going in the right direction; hopefully he doesnt drive us back into mediocrity before he retires.

[boomershadow]

I'm rarely a big fan of the trades Larry Bird makes. This one would have been no exception.

[Boneman2]

I'm rarely a big fan of the trades Larry Bird makes. This one would have been no exception.

What upsets me more about Bird is his fixation with drafting college seniors (hansbrough/ hill/ Plumlee/ rush) as if 2010 was an aberration.

Over the past decade only granger and Hibbert have panned out. I think every team should have at least 4-5 rookie contracts on the books at one time. Next year we'll have 1, maybe two if Whittington sticks.

[pacers33granger]

What upsets me more about Bird is his fixation with drafting college seniors (hansbrough/ hill/ Plumlee/ rush) as if 2010 was an aberration.

Over the past decade only granger and Hibbert have panned out. I think every team should have at least 4-5 rookie contracts on the books at one time. Next year we'll have 1, maybe two if Whittington sticks.

It seems Bird's drafting style is to make sure he's getting something for his pick. I think unless he's really certain a younger guy will be good, he's going to opt for an older guy who he has much more info on. For every Jrue Holiday after Hansbrough there's usually several more BJ Mullens types. At worst, at least all of Tyler, Plumlee, and Rush are rotation players right now still and we should see this year with Hill.

Though I would still rather he take a shot on certain younger guys in the draft.

[Scoot McGroot]

I dont think that wouldve been a good deal at all. Hibbert and Cope with cash for Dragic? Is Dragic that good? He is very good in uptempo offenses. But what about when the game slows down? Would a George Hill/Goran Dragic backcourt be good enough to have lost Hibbert? Im glad Phoenix rejected. Larry got the team going in the right direction; hopefully he doesnt drive us back into mediocrity before he retires.

Keep in mind this deal would've clears over $11m from the salary cap immediately. I imagine that Lance would've filled that quite a bit, as well. Or, we would've had $7m in cap space, and the. The room exception after that.

I imagine Phoenix had no interest in absorbing so much salary straight up.


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[basketballwacko2]

I'm rarely a big fan of the trades Larry Bird makes. This one would have been no exception.

What upsets me more about Bird is his fixation with drafting college seniors (hansbrough/ hill/ Plumlee/ rush) as if 2010 was an aberration.

Over the past decade only granger and Hibbert have panned out. I think every team should have at least 4-5 rookie contracts on the books at one time. Next year we'll have 1, maybe two if Whittington sticks.

Well the year we picked Hansbrough we needed a Point Guard and we passed on Ty Lawson, Jeff Teague, Jrue Holliday and Darren Collison. The deal to trade Bayless and Diogu for Rush, McBob and Jack looked like a good deal, then we lost Jack, Rush flamed out, and McBob was allowed to walk via free agency. The Plumlee pick looked awful then he was sent to Phoenix for Scola and now that looks awful.

[basketballwacko2]

I dont think that wouldve been a good deal at all. Hibbert and Cope with cash for Dragic? Is Dragic that good? He is very good in uptempo offenses. But what about when the game slows down? Would a George Hill/Goran Dragic backcourt be good enough to have lost Hibbert? Im glad Phoenix rejected. Larry got the team going in the right direction; hopefully he doesnt drive us back into mediocrity before he retires.

Keep in mind this deal would've clears over $11m from the salary cap immediately. I imagine that Lance would've filled that quite a bit, as well. Or, we would've had $7m in cap space, and the. The room exception after that.

I imagine Phoenix had no interest in absorbing so much salary straight up.


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They might have done it if we'd added a pick or 2. But like you've said before Hibbert is not a great fit for the Suns. They would like his rim protection but he's a bit slow footed for the running game.

[Scoot McGroot]

I dont think that wouldve been a good deal at all. Hibbert and Cope with cash for Dragic? Is Dragic that good? He is very good in uptempo offenses. But what about when the game slows down? Would a George Hill/Goran Dragic backcourt be good enough to have lost Hibbert? Im glad Phoenix rejected. Larry got the team going in the right direction; hopefully he doesnt drive us back into mediocrity before he retires.

Keep in mind this deal would've clears over $11m from the salary cap immediately. I imagine that Lance would've filled that quite a bit, as well. Or, we would've had $7m in cap space, and the. The room exception after that.

I imagine Phoenix had no interest in absorbing so much salary straight up.


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They might have done it if we'd added a pick or 2. But like you've said before Hibbert is not a great fit for the Suns. They would like his rim protection but he's a bit slow footed for the running game.

Eh, I think the fit and financial issues were fundamentally unsound for Phoenix to consider. I don't think that a theoretical late 1st or two would've made the difference.

[Wizop]

feels like something we might have discussed before we lost Lance in an effort to keep him. it doesn't feel like something that has been on the table more recently.

[Boneman2]

I reckon Hibbert feels very disrespected. This makes me feel like a rebuild is imminent, unless Hibbert is unaffected by this.

[Scoot McGroot]

I'm rarely a big fan of the trades Larry Bird makes. This one would have been no exception.

What upsets me more about Bird is his fixation with drafting college seniors (hansbrough/ hill/ Plumlee/ rush) as if 2010 was an aberration.

Over the past decade only granger and Hibbert have panned out. I think every team should have at least 4-5 rookie contracts on the books at one time. Next year we'll have 1, maybe two if Whittington sticks.

Lance? Plumlee?

Heck Brandon rush is still contributing in the NBA. And the fact that AJ Price actually played for 5 years as a 2nd rounder shouldn't be discounted either. Heck, he's not welcome here, but Shawne Williams is still getting signed.

Ultimately, it's really tough to accumulate 4-5 rookie contract players on a roster unless you're blatantly tanking. That's 1/3 of your roster on guys that need the utmost hand holding. And they get coaches and gm's fired.


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[Boneman2]

I don't know Scoot. I don't think rookie contracts indicate tanking at all. The Spurs currently have 18 players rostered and at least 7 of them are in the age range of potentially being on some type of flexible rookie deal, guaranteed or otherwise. This allows them to let certain valuable players go and replace them with cheap well groomed cogs.

Our pipeline is weak.

My argument against drafting primarily Seniors is a totally different assertion, but yeah I prefer the risks of PG and Lance over hansbrough and rush

[Scoot McGroot]

San Antonio has 3 guys on rookie deals this year. One is Kawhi, and another is a deep 2nd that's a 3 year prospect. Last year, only 2.


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I get that the pipeline is thin. However, we went for it all last year and struck out. That's why it's thin. Would you feel differently if we had Plumlee and our 1st this year? We tried, swung for the fences, and came up with only a ground rule double. It happens when you take risks. We got Lance and PG, but we also dealt with Shawne and others. We got Hibbert as a senior, but also then blew it with Hans. There's positives and negatives to each style. Bird has done both, and you have to. You can't only do one or the other in drafting. Ultimately, it's a 50/50 prospect, always.

[Moooose]

On the topic, I am not surprised at all that we are quietly shopping Hibbert. Though he is arguably one of the best centers in the league right now, he is not untouchable especially now that Paul went down. We can probably ship him somewhere and still get a rim protector in return and maybe a decent wing too.

On the drafting and the rookies, I respect Larry's style of drafting. We are still in a "win now" mode and he wanted guys who are ahead of the pack in terms of NBA-readiness. But we missed on the chance to grab guys with better potential. Cannot blame Larry, he went all in.

[Scoot McGroot]

I think this Dragic talk happened back during the moratorium, and is the reported phone call we placed about Dragic a month ago. Probably not new.

I think the Detroit "rumor" of us calling about Monroe was simply a basic phone call to see if he was somehow cheap, and probably was nothing more than that, and probably also happened a month ago. The fact that it was also reported by a mid day sports talk guy in Deteoit seems fishy as well. Imagine if Dakich were reporting it....you would know it was just made up. Also, the Detroit guy only posted "it was heating up" based solely on a Detroit sports twitter parody account reporting it.

Hibbert may be moved eventually, I'm just not sure they're actively attempting to do so right now.


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[Boneman2]

Well the decisive proportion of really good players are usually early entrants, which is why I would draft 80/20 in favor of frosh-sophomores, not the other way around like Bird.

In hindsight, PHO would have been lucky to get GGreen for Scola, let alone Bogdan and Plumlee, both of whom will be very solid role players for the next decade. I really think Larry deserves a swift kick to the nether region for this mishap. We can't afford anymore blue-light specials, unless we're buying. Giving away assets for broken down has-beens is asinine.


Pretty sure D Harrison was a senior. Crazy comes in all shapes, sizes, and age groups.

[8305]

I think when you are drafting in the 20's and beyond the value generally lies in the junior/senior aged player. The younger high ceiling players tend to go in the lottery. I don't know how often teams actually hit on the draft day train wreck player (Lance Stephenson).

Before this Hibbert/Dragic topic is completely closed. I think there is a very real chance that both Roy and Dragic will be free agents this summer. Would it make sense for the Pacers to persue Dragic over Hibbert? It would mean changing the way the team plays in a big way because I don't think you bring a guy like Dragic in and plan play grind it out basketball. But, if your pf and c positions weren't populated by relatively slow players this change would at least be feasible.

If Roy opts out next summer we will once again have some cap space. The roster could be tweeked in other ways to make the team more athletic.