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What would you like to see Vogel try out this year?

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What would you like to see Vogel try out this year? 

Post#1 » by pacers33granger » Thu Aug 14, 2014 5:43 pm

I think one of the silver linings of this whole offseason is that several guys have some opportunities to grow with little to no pressure. Solomon Hill will get a shot, George Hill and Hibbert will get opportunities on offense, and so should Miles, Rudez, and Cope. However, I think one underrated development that could really help in the future is that Vogel should be able to play around with things more and not feel like he has to stick to what has worked. He'll be able to try out new types of lineups, new rotations, and new play sets. I think the defense will remain largely the same though, just not as good.

For what I'd really like to see this season:

Lineups with 4 shooters around Hibbert. Last year we pretty much always had West or Scola in with him and Cope only really played at the end of blowouts when Roy was already sitting. We have enough shooters with Watson, both Hills, Miles, Rudez, and Cope to try different ones and see if any works. May not even hurt with Ian too as he could possibly get a lot of offensive boards on long rebounds with how he plays.

George Hill taking big shots. He was usually pretty good in the clutch when he was in San Antonio, but last year he choked on a lot of shots, especially free throws. I think a lot of it had to do with never having a rhythm. I'd like to see him played kind of like how Kemba Walker is in Charlotte.

Solomon Hill guarding the other team's best player. Might as well throw him in the fire if the comments from the coaches about his defense are to be believed. If he can develop into the guy who does that (like a Jimmy Butler), PG can take the other wing and roam around more and also have more energy for offense.

Staggered rotations of some kind. It works well for Carlisle and I think could pay dividends for Roy and West.

George Hill post ups. He's usually bigger than the other teams point guard. He's not great at it, but maybe he can develop it.
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Re: What would you like to see Vogel try out this year? 

Post#2 » by boomershadow » Thu Aug 14, 2014 6:30 pm

pacers33granger wrote:George Hill post ups. He's usually bigger than the other teams point guard. He's not great at it, but maybe he can develop it.


Ah man. I'm having flashbacks to the Mark Jackson days. I love it.
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Re: What would you like to see Vogel try out this year? 

Post#3 » by pacers33granger » Thu Aug 14, 2014 6:38 pm

boomershadow wrote:
pacers33granger wrote:George Hill post ups. He's usually bigger than the other teams point guard. He's not great at it, but maybe he can develop it.


Ah man. I'm having flashbacks to the Mark Jackson days. I love it.


I thought of that too and think Hill could watch some tape on him. Only issues I see though is that Hill doesn't have the strength of Jackson and also the rules are different now. I recall Jackson just backing guys down for most of the shot clock slowly. Another guy Hill could watch is Andre Miller, he's probably still the best post up point guard in the league.
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Re: What would you like to see Vogel try out this year? 

Post#4 » by MNPacersfan » Thu Aug 14, 2014 9:16 pm

I'd like to see a ton of play action out of the post. Using Hibbert as the passer that he can be by positioning him within a motion offense filled with shooters. It will also get him more single defenders than he was seeing when he got the ball last year.
2 man game with Hibbert or West was underutilized the last 2 years as well.
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Re: What would you like to see Vogel try out this year? 

Post#5 » by MNPacersfan » Thu Aug 14, 2014 9:17 pm

MNPacersfan wrote:I'd like to see a ton of play action out of the post. Using Hibbert as the passer that he can be by positioning him within a motion offense filled with shooters. It will also get him more single defenders than he was seeing when he got the ball last year.
2 man game with Hibbert or West was underutilized the last 2 years as well.


I really want to see the team work to develop Hibbert into a confident offensive player. Confident Hibbert plus PG next season could mean huge things.
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Re: What would you like to see Vogel try out this year? 

Post#6 » by pacers33granger » Thu Aug 14, 2014 9:49 pm

I always thought it was odd that we never really did that with Hibbert after we heard all the talk about him working on his passing and post moves with Bill Walton that summer.
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Re: What would you like to see Vogel try out this year? 

Post#7 » by Jake0890 » Thu Aug 14, 2014 10:07 pm

I just want to see Cope and Solo used for more than just garbage minutes.
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Re: What would you like to see Vogel try out this year? 

Post#8 » by SmashMouthRod » Thu Aug 14, 2014 11:54 pm

I would like to see him use a change of pace lineup for a quarter a game. Play Allen at the 5; Maybe Rudez or Copeland at the 4. With Hill; Watson; and Stuckey. Im pretty sure this lineup would be tough to matchup with. Indy seems to have one quarter every game where they go through a stretch of not being able to score. A small ball uptempo lineup should have very little problems scoring which should assist in keeping leads when the main guys are sitting.
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Re: What would you like to see Vogel try out this year? 

Post#9 » by Wizop » Fri Aug 15, 2014 2:24 pm

"Try[ing] out" different things isn't what I want to see. I say that not because I want him to stick to what we've been doing but because I think trying things suggests that when you find what works you'll stick with that. I want us to be more flexible. I want us to do different things in the regular season even if it costs us a game or two here and there so when we have to do something other than smash mouth in a playoff series it'll be something we've done before. So here are some things I want to see

    small ball
    zone defense
    zone offenses that have been practiced
    high post
    13 man rotations and multiple starting lineups so that no combination is unfamiliar
    game plans other than we do what we do
Please edit long quotes to only show what puts your new message into context.
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Re: What would you like to see Vogel try out this year? 

Post#10 » by glasket » Sun Aug 17, 2014 11:06 pm

I think this will see George Hill emerge, he will really need to step up with both Lance and PG gone.
Also a guess a chance to see Cope and if Solomon Hill is worth anything
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Re: What would you like to see Vogel try out this year? 

Post#11 » by boomershadow » Mon Aug 18, 2014 1:33 am

SmashMouthRod wrote:I would like to see him use a change of pace lineup for a quarter a game. Play Allen at the 5; Maybe Rudez or Copeland at the 4. With Hill; Watson; and Stuckey. Im pretty sure this lineup would be tough to matchup with. Indy seems to have one quarter every game where they go through a stretch of not being able to score. A small ball uptempo lineup should have very little problems scoring which should assist in keeping leads when the main guys are sitting.


This would also provide a spark if we need one when we're behind.
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Re: What would you like to see Vogel try out this year? 

Post#12 » by Moooose » Mon Aug 18, 2014 7:55 am

Though Larry and Frank will probably stick to their must-win philosophy, I would like it more if we will use this season to develop the potential replacements to our expiring vets. Not saying that we should tank, but our reserves are quite talented and may eventually help us win with adequate playing time.

I would like to see Frank play LaVoy Allen more than Scola. And see where Solomon Hill's development is at. And give Rudez a chance to show that his signing is a steal of a deal. In short, I'd like us to build a team for PG's return and beyond. Use this season as a measuring stick and adjust as needed. We have nothing to lose.

We would likely see solid production from West, now that he will be asked to post more to score. Hibbert will likely up his numbers, but he's got to be more consistent. I am banking on George Hill making a breakthrough season, stepping up for our losses.

Also, if we go this route, I will expect Scola to be gone before the trade deadline for a pick or a youg vet.
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Re: What would you like to see Vogel try out this year? 

Post#13 » by H E Pennypacker » Mon Aug 18, 2014 4:19 pm

I would echo a lot of what has been said already. I definitely want to see Copeland get some meaningful minutes rather than him being a human victory cigar. We need to see if/how he can play. Hill & Rudez getting good minutes is also a must. I am excited to see what George Hill can do being a top-3 option on offense…hopefully something to make swallowing that contract a little easier.

Try to flip Scola for something useful around the deadline and play Allen. I also would like to see the small ball lineup during games. Even with expectations quite low (among the fans anyway), I am more excited for the season to start than in most years prior.
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Re: What would you like to see Vogel try out this year? 

Post#14 » by Nuntius » Mon Aug 18, 2014 4:55 pm

I'd like to see us return to our post-up identity. I feel that we relied on PnR variations a lot last year and that this didn't help our offense. Personally, I think that our offense always produced better results when we tried to post-up and get the ball inside than it did when our guards settled for pull-up 2s after screens.

I'd like to see us become an inside-out team again. I'd like to see George Hill posting up smaller guards, I'd like to see West and Hibbert get the ball in the post and I'd like to see our SFs and SGs provide spacing for our bigs. I'd also like to see Copeland, Solomon Hill and Rudež get playing time.
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