Does Roy Hibbert need a change of venue?

basketballwacko2 · Post #1 » by **basketballwacko2** » Sun Dec 21, 2014 10:59 am

He looked good earlier in the season, but since his ankle injury has not looked good. He seems off like someting is not right with him. Lavoy Allen has been looking great I love the hustle and his getting after the boards. Roy seems to need a change, he needs someting to wake him up. Would benching him help or should we actively look to trade him? If so where.

I've said this before, but I'd consider taking on a bad contract if we could get enough assets. I feel like Roy is gonna opt out of his last year and we'll end up with him leaving. Would Boston who has some 10-11 #1 picks in the next 4 years, be a place to move him. I've thought about Hibbert for Wallace and assets such as Zeller or Olynyk and James Young plus 2 #1 picks and cash. Depends on how bad they want to get rid of Wallace. And then how much would they Value an elite shot blocker.

I know Cleveland is looking to get a defender at center The might be willing to part with Waiters and Thompson maybe the Memphis pick they hold? Also we know that Portland wanted him a couple years back. They would not need him to score with Aldredge, Lillard, Batum and Wes Matthews. They have some young players that might do us some good.

red96 · Post #2 » by **red96** » Sun Dec 21, 2014 1:00 pm

basketballwacko2 wrote:He looked good earlier in the season, but since his ankle injury has not looked good. He seems off like someting is not right with him. Lavoy Allen has been looking great I love the hustle and his getting after the boards. Roy seems to need a change, he needs someting to wake him up. Would benching him help or should we actively look to trade him? If so where.

I've said this before, but I'd consider taking on a bad contract if we could get enough assets. I feel like Roy is gonna opt out of his last year and we'll end up with him leaving. Would Boston who has some 10-11 #1 picks in the next 4 years, be a place to move him. I've thought about Hibbert for Wallace and assets such as Zeller or Olynyk and James Young plus 2 #1 picks and cash. Depends on how bad they want to get rid of Wallace. And then how much would they Value an elite shot blocker.

I know Cleveland is looking to get a defender at center The might be willing to part with Waiters and Thompson maybe the Memphis pick they hold? Also we know that Portland wanted him a couple years back. They would not need him to score with Aldredge, Lillard, Batum and Wes Matthews. They have some young players that might do us some good.

Would you be interested in trading Hibbert for Dragic? I know there has been some interest from Suns fans?

EuroPacer · Post #3 » by **EuroPacer** » Sun Dec 21, 2014 3:02 pm

I've not been able to watch many games this year, but his statline does seem to indicate he isn't in the right frame of mind, I think the second half of the last season seriously messed with his head. But I also think that with how Vogel sets us up we need a big body down low and big bodies that stay healthy are hard to find.

Hibbert definitely has value as a commodity in that sense, but what to get back? Sending him away for a bad contract means wasting a PG13 year effectively, so not a fan of that idea.

Post #4 » by **pacers33granger** » Mon Dec 22, 2014 12:22 am

Vogel's system doesn't really lend itself to stats so I think that's part of it. I think he's also just the type of player who needs good players around him. He's gone from Hill, Lance, and PG manning the perimeter and all of them could keep guys where he needed them to get some stops. Now he's got Sloan, Stuckey, and Hill and only Hill can do that but he's prone to lapses (as any young guy is).

And he's been battling injuries so far too. If we could get a good package for him I'd be ok with trading him, but I don't want to and think his value is way too low to sell on. I'm actually hoping we can get him to opt out and sign a longer deal for a bit less, something like 4/48.

mikepacernation · Post #5 » by **mikepacernation** » Mon Dec 22, 2014 1:27 am

pacers33granger wrote:Vogel's system doesn't really lend itself to stats so I think that's part of it. I think he's also just the type of player who needs good players around him. He's gone from Hill, Lance, and PG manning the perimeter and all of them could keep guys where he needed them to get some stops. Now he's got Sloan, Stuckey, and Hill and only Hill can do that but he's prone to lapses (as any young guy is).

And he's been battling injuries so far too. If we could get a good package for him I'd be ok with trading him, but I don't want to and think his value is way too low to sell on. I'm actually hoping we can get him to opt out and sign a longer deal for a bit less, something like 4/48.

you would actually want him to sign a 12 million a year contract with the pacers? Just think if he's this bad now how is he gonna be in like two years? An it's not like he played better last year with lance pg an hill

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Post #6 » by **Nuntius** » Mon Dec 22, 2014 2:35 am

The main thing that Roy needs right now is to get completely healthy.

Post #7 » by **Scoot McGroot** » Mon Dec 22, 2014 2:57 am

red96 wrote: Would you be interested in trading Hibbert for Dragic? I know there has been some interest from Suns fans?

Obviously, Bird and the Pacers would. However, Phoenix allegedly rebuffed the idea flat out. Can't imagine that Hibbert would have any place in Phoenix, unless they cleaned house in coaching staff and rebuilt a completely new offensive/defensive system.

Post #8 » by **Scoot McGroot** » Mon Dec 22, 2014 3:04 am

I wouldn't be torn up if we moved him in a deal that netted some sort of value. I definitely wouldn't firesell him, though; nor sell him for poor fit value. Waiters in Cleveland doesn't interest me. I'd rather go a little crazy and make a move like Hibbert/Hill for Deron Williams/Plumlee. It's cost neutral (Brooklyn would have to pay Deron's trade kicker of 15% since he signed the deal under the new CBA) and actually saves Indy about $1.8m this season. Deron's huge salary would be offset by having Plumlee signed for the same time frame on a rookie salary deal that's quite affordable.

Ultimately, I just can't see many spots to put Hibbert that would give us some value for him.

Post #9 » by **pacers33granger** » Mon Dec 22, 2014 3:05 am

mikepacernation wrote:
pacers33granger wrote:Vogel's system doesn't really lend itself to stats so I think that's part of it. I think he's also just the type of player who needs good players around him. He's gone from Hill, Lance, and PG manning the perimeter and all of them could keep guys where he needed them to get some stops. Now he's got Sloan, Stuckey, and Hill and only Hill can do that but he's prone to lapses (as any young guy is).

And he's been battling injuries so far too. If we could get a good package for him I'd be ok with trading him, but I don't want to and think his value is way too low to sell on. I'm actually hoping we can get him to opt out and sign a longer deal for a bit less, something like 4/48.
you would actually want him to sign a 12 million a year contract with the pacers? Just think if he's this bad now how is he gonna be in like two years? An it's not like he played better last year with lance pg an hill

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The cap is going up considerably during that time period and he's been healthy for the most part throughout his time here once he got into NBA shape. He's going to get paid and is still a great defensive center, but that doesn't show up in the stats all the time. A 4 year deal would take him until he's 32, so tail of end of the usual prime. There's obviously a risk with him, but we know it's all mental and at his worst he'd still be worth 5-6 mil on the center market. That's not good, but it's highly unlikely that it becomes a Javale Mcgee situation where you get nothing for your money.

If we end up with some awesome luck and get Towns or Okafor, then I'd change my tune. But we simply will not get a better center through free agency. Only way would be to give up assets like the Pelicans did to get Asik. And 12 mil would be about market value, maybe a little over, but this would be with him declining 16 mil this coming year so there's really a 4 mil savings in year one. I'm expecting guys like Asik and Deandre Jordan to get deals in the range of 10-14 mil and Roy is better than them.

Wizop · Post #10 » by **Wizop** » Mon Dec 22, 2014 2:21 pm

pacers33granger wrote:I'm actually hoping we can get him to opt out and sign a longer deal for a bit less, something like 4/48.

why would he opt out to take a pay cut? wouldn't he just play out his current contract if he thought he couldn't get an increase?

Post #11 » by **pacers33granger** » Mon Dec 22, 2014 7:29 pm

Wizop wrote:
pacers33granger wrote:I'm actually hoping we can get him to opt out and sign a longer deal for a bit less, something like 4/48.

why would he opt out to take a pay cut? wouldn't he just play out his current contract if he thought he couldn't get an increase?

Long term security. He's a guy who would seem to value that and we've seen plenty of players do it before. And it'd help the team and for all his faults he has always been a team guy.

Post #12 » by **Scoot McGroot** » Tue Dec 23, 2014 1:31 am

pacers33granger wrote:
Wizop wrote:
pacers33granger wrote:I'm actually hoping we can get him to opt out and sign a longer deal for a bit less, something like 4/48.

why would he opt out to take a pay cut? wouldn't he just play out his current contract if he thought he couldn't get an increase?

Long term security. He's a guy who would seem to value that and we've seen plenty of players do it before. And it'd help the team and for all his faults he has always been a team guy.

Meh, as a true 7 footer who alters the game defensively, I don't think that he'd be too concerned of long-term security to opt out a year early; unless he's opting out to get about the same salary, but longer. Give up about $5m in year one to get 4 years, when he could wait one more year and get the same deal? And make $5m more? Maybe, but I don't think he's as likely to do that. He's not really in that position in his career. He's neither near the tailend of his career, nor so early in his career he hasn't made true money yet.

Post #13 » by **pacers33granger** » Tue Dec 23, 2014 5:21 am

Scoot McGroot wrote:
pacers33granger wrote:
Wizop wrote:
why would he opt out to take a pay cut? wouldn't he just play out his current contract if he thought he couldn't get an increase?

Long term security. He's a guy who would seem to value that and we've seen plenty of players do it before. And it'd help the team and for all his faults he has always been a team guy.

Meh, as a true 7 footer who alters the game defensively, I don't think that he'd be too concerned of long-term security to opt out a year early; unless he's opting out to get about the same salary, but longer. Give up about $5m in year one to get 4 years, when he could wait one more year and get the same deal? And make $5m more? Maybe, but I don't think he's as likely to do that. He's not really in that position in his career. He's neither near the tailend of his career, nor so early in his career he hasn't made true money yet.

It really depends. Hibbert just strikes me as the type of guy who'd hate to be on an expiring deal. And 48 mil or so guaranteed is a lot more than 16 mil guaranteed. Yes he'd have a good chance of getting at least a 12 mil deal after next year, but what happens if he gets injured or really underperforms again?

Ultimately the point was that I'd like for Hibbert to opt out in favor of a long term deal at a small discount. I don't think it's likely to happen, but it's happened before with other players. And I think we'd be crazy to turn down a 4/48 re-up for Hibbert.

8305 · Post #14 » by **8305** » Tue Dec 23, 2014 11:46 am

Personally I think Roy opts out. There's been nothing new to see from him this year. He's the same guy we thought he was. Maddeningly inconsistent, pretty easily defended on most nights and on most nights a defensive presence. Same guy we signed back in the summer of 2012. Could we sign him to a new deal at a small discount? Maybe. But as is always the case there will be teams with cap space this summer and Roy is probably the number 1 Mark Gasol consolation prize. How much is that potential 3-5 million annual spread between the discounted Pacer contract and the highest bidder contract worth to Roy?

basketballwacko2 · Post #15 » by **basketballwacko2** » Tue Dec 23, 2014 10:14 pm

red96 wrote:
Would you be interested in trading Hibbert for Dragic? I know there has been some interest from Suns fans?

I'd strongly look at a deal like that. The Pacers need to bring back a Center if we are trading Roy. How about Hibbert and Sloan for Dragic and Plumlee?

I'm very interested in TJ Warren as well I'd like to add him to the deal or in a 2nd trade to make the money work.

basketballwacko2 · Post #16 » by **basketballwacko2** » Tue Dec 23, 2014 10:21 pm

Wizop wrote:
pacers33granger wrote:I'm actually hoping we can get him to opt out and sign a longer deal for a bit less, something like 4/48.

why would he opt out to take a pay cut? wouldn't he just play out his current contract if he thought he couldn't get an increase?

If I was Roy I'd consider opt opt because he can get a long term deal. 4 yrs at $12 million is better than 1 year remaining at $15 million. If he blows out a knee in that final season he's looking at a comback on a very low paycheck. It's long term security vs short term money.

Jermainevent · Post #17 » by **Jermainevent** » Sun Dec 28, 2014 12:21 am

Haven't posted in a while, but I'm really hoping they do make some moves. Hibbert, when in the right frame of mind is a monster defensively and adequate offensively. Unfortunately, it's a cold day in you know where when he shows up on both ends of the court on the same night. There are a few guys in the upcoming draft who would really look great in the blue and gold. Waiting on a 19 year old big man to mature might be a little bit too much to ask of Paul George, unfortunately there aren't too many all star big men available.

I personally would like to find an athletic big that specializes in protecting the rim and getting put -backs, possibly a hybrid of Dale Davis, Chris Andersen, and Larry Sanders. I really like Willie Cauley-Stein's game, his defensive prowess should translate fairly quickly. Like to add power forward who can hit the mid range jumper, basically a younger version of David West. I think getting a hold of Noah Vonleh would be ideal, he's athletic and has great range. I miss the days of having a good high low post game that we had for 2 years with Brad Miller and Jermaine O'neal.