Anyone else agree with me?

cubsflan24 · Post #1 » by **cubsflan24** » Thu Jan 15, 2015 6:23 pm

Anyone else agree that for the long run for the Pacers, would be to tank rest of the way and hope we can get into a top 5 pick and hope we can get lucky for once and win the draft lotto. I would also strongly consider shopping Hibbert and West if the Pacers can get a good deal like a couple first rounders. Pacers would still have Paul George of course, top draft pick if we get lucky and then we can then spend on free agency with the next 2 free agent classes being pretty solid. Go after a guy like Draymond Green, Jimmy Butler (Doubt the Bulls let him go though), and there is a few others that I would like.

pacers70 · Post #2 » by **pacers70** » Thu Jan 15, 2015 9:57 pm

No. I never support tanking.

The Pacers aren't in that bad of shape for next season...in my opinion. Solo is learning what it takes to play 30 mpg and will work on his shot in the off season. I look for Solo and PG to be a solid starting duo on the wing. GHill is an above average point guard and we are seeing his value this year as the Pacers are 3-2 when he plays.

The Pacers have had one of the top defenses in the league the past few years with Hibbert as the anchor. It would be tough to find a better rim protector. West seems to be the "weak" link in my opinion. We would really benefit by having and athletic PF along side of Hibbert. Unfortunately, I don't see Bird moving West. That means we should try and get an athletic bench.

We will have the opportunity to improve our bench via draft and free agency. Plus Bird may make a minor trade before the deadline.

We may struggle this season, but I look for us to be a top 4-5 seed next year in the East.

cubsflan24 · Post #3 » by **cubsflan24** » Thu Jan 15, 2015 10:12 pm

I agree with you but I'm just talking about this season. I'm not saying totally blow the team up, but you got Hibbert and West who both have player options who could easily leave at the end of the season. So why not get some assists like draft pick or more money to spend on free agency. I also don't want to see this team finish just out of the playoffs and get a crap draft pick. Rather see us get in the top 5 and hopefully win the lotto and we just add another top young guy maybe someone like Okafor that can fill into Hibbert's shoes. A lot would have to fall into place, but a lineup up Hill, George, Hill, Draymond Green, and Okafor is pretty solid.

Post #4 » by **Scoot McGroot** » Thu Jan 15, 2015 10:35 pm

cubsflan24 wrote:I agree with you but I'm just talking about this season. I'm not saying totally blow the team up, but you got Hibbert and West who both have player options who could easily leave at the end of the season. So why not get some assists like draft pick or more money to spend on free agency. I also don't want to see this team finish just out of the playoffs and get a crap draft pick. Rather see us get in the top 5 and hopefully win the lotto and we just add another top young guy maybe someone like Okafor that can fill into Hibbert's shoes. A lot would have to fall into place, but a lineup up Hill, George, Hill, Draymond Green, and Okafor is pretty solid.

We're already kind of tanking, and to do anymore would require full on tank; dump Hibbert and West both for nothing that can help us this year.

Ultimately, it sets an example that losing is encouraged, which can sometimes take a long time to wash off, and it turns the fans away for several years, resulting in very poor attendance.

If anything, with the way we haven't been healthy, I could see Bird shopping some of the expiring pieces like Scola, Copeland, Stuckey, Watson, and maybe even Mahinmi for small value pieces to contenders. Sure, it won't net you multiple 1sts, but maybe some 2nds or forgotten prospects and such. Bird just isn't likely to dump Hibbert, Hill, and West, and those guys aren't likely to sit out games to lose voluntarily.

cubsflan24 · Post #5 » by **cubsflan24** » Thu Jan 15, 2015 11:03 pm

I would hope most fans would realize that this season was going to be a tough one right when George broke his leg and then added to it when Hill and West missed first month or 2. I just feel in the best for the franchise in the big picture would be to try and find a taker for West and Hibbert ( possible free agents) and see if we can get lucky in the draft. Then with some money off the books, go after some of the better free agents. Player like Paul George on our team does attract free agents to come here to play

mikepacernation · Post #6 » by **mikepacernation** » Thu Jan 15, 2015 11:29 pm

cubsflan24 wrote:I would hope most fans would realize that this season was going to be a tough one right when George broke his leg and then added to it when Hill and West missed first month or 2. I just feel in the best for the franchise in the big picture would be to try and find a taker for West and Hibbert ( possible free agents) and see if we can get lucky in the draft. Then with some money off the books, go after some of the better free agents. Player like Paul George on our team does attract free agents to come here to play

i think they should look into just trading maybe one of them not both I would say more west then hibbert. West is aging an doesn't have that many good years left anyways.

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Post #7 » by **Scoot McGroot** » Thu Jan 15, 2015 11:42 pm

cubsflan24 wrote:I would hope most fans would realize that this season was going to be a tough one right when George broke his leg and then added to it when Hill and West missed first month or 2. I just feel in the best for the franchise in the big picture would be to try and find a taker for West and Hibbert ( possible free agents) and see if we can get lucky in the draft. Then with some money off the books, go after some of the better free agents. Player like Paul George on our team does attract free agents to come here to play

Theoretically, we all agree. But it's infiniteky unlikely. Also, I just can NEVERTHELESS assume free agent signings. One of the only ones we've ever had was David West. Even with Paul George, Indy just isn't going to be a destination unless we vastly overpay guys.

cubsflan24 · Post #8 » by **cubsflan24** » Thu Jan 15, 2015 11:45 pm

I agree and I think a playoff team would gladly like to add a guy like West for a playoff run. I also like to add I'm just not saying just dump Hibbert and West. If I'm not at least getting a 1st rounder or so for Hibbert then you keep him. Only trade him if Bird is getting what he wants. I'm just worried that they both leave free agency and we are left high and dry. All about getting future assists and see if we can hit it in the draft lotto

EuroPacer · Post #9 » by **EuroPacer** » Sun Jan 18, 2015 8:15 am

It's a tricky situation for all involved, I hate that we don't have a guy that can close games out. West used to be the engine in those late runs but he lost a step. If we were to fiddle around the margins with a trade for West I'd like to see a high level 3-point shooter come in who can come on and change the outcome of a game. I'd stick Lavoy on for West for the rest of the season and then evaluate at the end.

Clutch31 · Post #10 » by **Clutch31** » Mon Jan 19, 2015 10:45 am

I agree. Ofcourse you should never create a losing culture, but giving up one season that's not gonna bring you succes anyway, but makes you better in the long run should be considered. You've got two big men that can opt out and walk away after this season, then what do we have ? So i would explore what one or two of those guys can get you now. High draft picks or younger talented players added to our own top ten pick this upcoming draft could make us a contender soon again. Right now, we are going nowhere.

Wizop · Post #11 » by **Wizop** » Mon Jan 19, 2015 3:06 pm

we just lost games to three lottery teams and a team sitting two starters. I call that creative tanking. I don't see any reason to trade starters although I'd certainly be willing to talk to West and Scola behind closed doors and ask them if they want to be traded to a contender and if the Knicks want Copeland back I'd let them have him.

cubsflan24 · Post #12 » by **cubsflan24** » Wed Jan 21, 2015 3:52 am

Part of this mini rebuild I like t add is that I love to see the Pacers add a PG like Reggie Jackson. I don't know the whole salary cap stuff with the Thunder or their big needs but if we could some how get Jackson for David West along with a draft pick I think it help the Pacers in the long run. Its all about getting young assets and moving forward. Lets get lucky in the draft lotto also and get Okafor while we are at it ( we can hope)

Post #13 » by **pacers33granger** » Wed Jan 21, 2015 4:15 am

cubsflan24 wrote:Part of this mini rebuild I like t add is that I love to see the Pacers add a PG like Reggie Jackson. I don't know the whole salary cap stuff with the Thunder or their big needs but if we could some how get Jackson for David West along with a draft pick I think it help the Pacers in the long run. Its all about getting young assets and moving forward. Lets get lucky in the draft lotto also and get Okafor while we are at it ( we can hope)

I think Jackson may be able to be had at a slight discount and I like him, but would we demote George Hill? I wouldn't want both starting and I'd like Solomon Hill to be the starter next year.

cubsflan24 · Post #14 » by **cubsflan24** » Wed Jan 21, 2015 5:35 am

I really like George Hill being a 6th man to be honest. Coming off the bench, still getting pretty close to starter mins. I just don't feel like Hill is a true PG like Jackson is.

Clutch31 · Post #15 » by **Clutch31** » Wed Jan 21, 2015 9:29 am

Seems like we're getting a top 8 pick. I hope we can finally get this team a good point guard. Having George Hill as a backup for the 1 and 2 spot would be a perfect role for him.

Jermainevent · Post #16 » by **Jermainevent** » Wed Jan 21, 2015 6:23 pm

I could definitely live with George Hill being our 6th man for a couple of years, granted a little pricey but I think he could thrive in that role. This draft doesn't appear have much at PG outside of Mudiay unless you count Russell. I'm just wanting a shake up, because I just don't see as currently constructed we compete for the East crown.

Post #17 » by **pacers33granger** » Wed Jan 21, 2015 8:43 pm

cubsflan24 wrote:I really like George Hill being a 6th man to be honest. Coming off the bench, still getting pretty close to starter mins. I just don't feel like Hill is a true PG like Jackson is.

Eh Jackson's not really a true PG either. He's a scoring PG with mediocre defense and limited range. I still like him and think he is low to mid level starter material though. Overall I don't see him as much better if at all better than Hill. I think for what he'll be looking for we'd be much better off looking for a backup PG who is a distributor.

And I really think it's understated how much Hill does for our defense. We've seen it this season. Our rim protection is still there with Hibbert, but PGs blow by Sloan and Watson like crazy and give us little to no chance at stopping guys. I know we'd all like to make a splash and get a big time player, but next year we have a chance to be pretty good and set for a bit. As long as Hill and PG come back fine our defense could be even better than last year since we'll be replacing Lance with Solo Hill. And our offense has a shot at being better too without Lance's inconsistency and with Miles off the bench. Plus whoever we can get with our pick.

We obviously will have some holes to fill, but I think through a good draft pick and some under the radar signings we can fill them well. Guys like Darrell Arthur, Wesley Johnson, Alexis Ajinca, Al Farouq Aminu, Ekpe Udoh, Quincy Acy, Mbah a Moute, Dorrel Wright, etc. could possibly be some cheap signings that could pay dividends. Or even young guys who haven't gotten a great shot like Will Barton or Shane Larkin could help.

Post #18 » by **Scoot McGroot** » Thu Jan 22, 2015 3:49 am

Keep in mind guys, you're likely to pay Reggie Jackson more than George Hill, for more years, to keep him after this year. I'm not sure he should be the target.

stinger14 · Post #19 » by **stinger14** » Thu Jan 22, 2015 9:48 pm

Hornets get West

Pacers get Marvin Williams, Gary Neal (expiring), and lotto protected 1st

Marv plays as a stretch 4 which works next to Roy. Neal can fit into the rotation, and is expiring. Also get that 1st round pick

Post #20 » by **Scoot McGroot** » Fri Jan 23, 2015 12:51 am

stinger14 wrote:Hornets get West

Pacers get Marvin Williams, Gary Neal (expiring), and lotto protected 1st

Marv plays as a stretch 4 which works next to Roy. Neal can fit into the rotation, and is expiring. Also get that 1st round pick

It's just not enough, especially with having to eat Marvin Williams deal. That lotto protected 1st isn't enough. Maybe Cody or Vonleh instead, or some other way to make up the value, especially with having to pay Marvin a big amount of money to not fit in anywhere for us.