Hibbert

devinbrady · Post #1 » by **devinbrady** » Tue Mar 17, 2015 10:32 pm

Living in LA I only see a few Pacer games a year. Why has Hibbert never averaged more than 30 min. a game? At just over 3 PF a game it doesn't look like foul trouble. Is it conditioning or what?

chube · Post #2 » by **chube** » Tue Mar 17, 2015 11:13 pm

Some of it is consistency, and some of it is that he's battled illness and minor elbow issues recently. Plus, as nice of a size advantage as he can bring, he doesn't match up well against small-ball teams.

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Wizop · Post #3 » by **Wizop** » Wed Mar 18, 2015 2:14 pm

we pretty much platoon and Ian Mahinmi is used to playing with the second five. Ian doesn't have the offensive game that Roy does but that unit has Scola, Stuckey, Watson, and Miles who can all shoot.

devinbrady · Post #4 » by **devinbrady** » Wed Mar 18, 2015 5:41 pm

Do you expect them to just let him walk or try and resign. From the outside looking in and seeing he is only getting 25 min a game it sure seems like they have already moved on. As someone watching him play do you think he is a max player? Would you rather have him or DJ? Players with his size and skill set are game changers when things slow down in the playoffs, but does he have it mentally?
After seeing DJ's huge improvement under Doc I am just wondering how good Hibbert could be in the right situation.

Post #5 » by **Scoot McGroot** » Wed Mar 18, 2015 5:59 pm

devinbrady wrote:Do you expect them to just let him walk or try and resign. From the outside looking in and seeing he is only getting 25 min a game it sure seems like they have already moved on. As someone watching him play do you think he is a max player? Would you rather have him or DJ? Players with his size and skill set are game changers when things slow down in the playoffs, but does he have it mentally?
After seeing DJ's huge improvement under Doc I am just wondering how good Hibbert could be in the right situation.

He's under contract next year and highly unlikely to opt out. Otherwise, he's not a MAX player. He's still worth being highly paid, though. His issues are mostly mental, and otherwise being over 7 feet tall. We keep him rested in a platoon with Ian so that we always have a guy that can truly attack the rim defensively. A tired Roy is a worthless Roy.

Ultimately, I think he plays out this year and next, and when he hits free agency, I think he leaves. He'll be getting up there, and he is offensively flawed a bit. I think West would retire at the same point, and that that would be the perfect time for the Pacers to do a quick rebuild with even more massive cap space going into the massive rise in the cap year in 2016.

I like both DeAndre and Roy. Ultimately, I think I'd take Roy, but maybe not for much longer. I like that DeAndre allows a team to run and gun a bit more, while Roy slows a team down.

mikepacernation · Post #6 » by **mikepacernation** » Fri Mar 20, 2015 10:28 pm

My opinion of roy is he's just soft he slow can't jump no offensive game at all he blocks shots an that's about its probably one of the worst 7 foot rebounder in the league. I'd take Jordan any day of the week over hibbert.

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Post #7 » by **Scoot McGroot** » Sat Mar 21, 2015 10:13 pm

mikepacernation wrote:My opinion of roy is he's just soft he slow can't jump no offensive game at all he blocks shots an that's about its probably one of the worst 7 foot rebounder in the league. I'd take Jordan any day of the week over hibbert.

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Hibbert is statistically the best defensive big man in the game. He affects games without having to get stats. He's a big difference. He just doesn't show up in box scores as much.

Post #8 » by **pacers33granger** » Sat Mar 21, 2015 11:01 pm

mikepacernation wrote:My opinion of roy is he's just soft he slow can't jump no offensive game at all he blocks shots an that's about its probably one of the worst 7 foot rebounder in the league. I'd take Jordan any day of the week over hibbert.

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Jordan isn't better than Hibbert. And he's a liability on offense on a team that generally plays to his strengths. He would be awful in our slow system and without a primary ball handler able to consistently throw him lobs.

Jordan has gotten so overrated this year because of his raw stats and the market he plays in. He's a good center, but doesn't affect the game near as much as his stats indicate.

Post #9 » by **Nuntius** » Mon Mar 23, 2015 3:07 pm

Roy Hibbert is 7'2 and weights 280 lbs. That's why he has never averaged more than 30 MPG during the regular season. Bigs of his size rarely play heavy minute during the regular season because their huge body doesn't really allow it. Rik Smits (who was 30 pounds lighter than Roy despite being 2 inches taller) only averaged above 30 MPG twice in his career and even that was barely above 30 (30.5 in 94-95 and 30.2 in 95-96).

That said, the playoffs are a completely different issue. Roy averaged 36.5 MPG during the 12-13 playoffs and 30.9 MPG during the 11-12 playoffs. He can play heavy minutes when we need him to. Vogel simply doesn't opt to play him heavy minutes regularly as a means to avoid injuries that could develop into chronic problems (like the foot problems that hobbled Smits).

mikepacernation · Post #10 » by **mikepacernation** » Thu Apr 2, 2015 3:48 am

Looks like one of the best defensive centers in the league gets killed by zeller tonight.. What a joke dudes weak an need to leave Indiana

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Post #11 » by **pacers33granger** » Thu Apr 2, 2015 3:57 am

mikepacernation wrote:Looks like one of the best defensive centers in the league gets killed by zeller tonight.. What a joke dudes weak an need to leave Indiana

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I didn't get to catch the game but Zeller is a bad matchup for him. Centers who live off of midrange games take him off his game (see bosh and antic last year).

Post #12 » by **Scoot McGroot** » Fri Apr 3, 2015 6:26 pm

mikepacernation wrote:Looks like one of the best defensive centers in the league gets killed by zeller tonight.. What a joke dudes weak an need to leave Indiana

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You're right. One game always tells the whole story. :wink:

MillerTheKiller · Post #13 » by **MillerTheKiller** » Mon Apr 6, 2015 3:04 am

Indiana fans that hate Hibbert can **** off tbh.

He's a massive presence on D and a defense anchored by him and George is the best in the league.

Post #14 » by **boomershadow** » Mon Apr 6, 2015 8:49 pm

I do think Vogel is a bit slow to recognize when Roy's size and slowness is a disadvantage, like in the Hawks series last year. Roy got rested a few games this year against quicker teams though. It doesn't mean we should get rid of him. It just means that n certain matchups, we need to remember that we have 3 centers (this year at least) whose games have different areas of strength and weakness.

Wizop · Post #15 » by **Wizop** » Mon Apr 6, 2015 9:06 pm

Roy has a massive confidence issue. sitting him risks starting a death spiral.

Post #16 » by **Scoot McGroot** » Tue Apr 7, 2015 1:57 am

If Roy was dealt or moved on, I wouldn't be heart broken. It would greatly change the makeup and build of our roster, though. It's not so easy to find a replacement center, but part of me is intrigued in finding a center more mobile, while having a bit more offensive consistently, or even going platoon at the position. But what he does defensively is what keeps him around here.

chube · Post #17 » by **chube** » Mon Apr 13, 2015 12:44 am

Hibb will get nowhere near 15 million a year after next summer. If he truly wants to be a Pacer beyond this contract, he knows he will have to take a pay cut, but still be a little overpaid because he's 7'2". Once his contact comes down, people will (should) stop hating

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Post #18 » by **Scoot McGroot** » Mon Apr 13, 2015 3:48 pm

chube wrote:Hibb will get nowhere near 15 million a year after next summer. If he truly wants to be a Pacer beyond this contract, he knows he will have to take a pay cut, but still be a little overpaid because he's 7'2". Once his contact comes down, people will (should) stop hating

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Well, with the rise in cap, he'll likely get MORE than $15m a year, even if it is a lower percentage of the cap than he's making now. Ultimately, people will ALWAYS expect more from a talented 7 footer, and the fact that he's only marginally useful offensively will always draw some jeers from the fans.

Honestly, I kind of expect someone to pay Hibbert more than we're willing to pay him once he hits free agency. I think Bird is happy to have him, but that he ultimately wouldn't have matched the max offer from Portland. It just seems that Hibbert isn't really his kind of guy, what with the inconsistent emotions and whatnot. West and George Hill are more Bird guys.

Wizop · Post #19 » by **Wizop** » Mon Apr 13, 2015 8:00 pm

and Roy might be more of a Vogel guy. a lot of our defensive principles require rim protectors like Roy and Ian.

that said, I've heard Indianapolis talk radio guys say that the Pacers are built for the 1990's and that we need changes to play a more modern game. I'm not sure I understand what they have in mind but I suppose it begins with more speed at 4 and 5. I think it's fair to say we're built to meet Chicago in the playoffs. are changes required to beat Atlanta? we might see very soon.

Post #20 » by **Scoot McGroot** » Mon Apr 13, 2015 9:59 pm

Wizop wrote:and Roy might be more of a Vogel guy. a lot of our defensive principles require rim protectors like Roy and Ian.

that said, I've heard Indianapolis talk radio guys say that the Pacers are built for the 1990's and that we need changes to play a more modern game. I'm not sure I understand what they have in mind but I suppose it begins with more speed at 4 and 5. I think it's fair to say we're built to meet Chicago in the playoffs. are changes required to beat Atlanta? we might see very soon.

I imagine that Roy may seem like a Vogel guy, merely because it's the only center he's been able to work with. And, with such a huge salary and long contract, he wasn't likely to be moved.

Ultimately, Bird is the GM, and in charge of the roster. The way he sweated out Vogel and his naming to the position, as well as his extension clearly points out that Bird is happy to exercise it, methinks.