RealGM

Looking at Smitty's thread in the trade forum.

viewtopic.php?f=2&t=1363694#start_here

Looks like Brandon Bass, Andrea Bargnani, Kevin Seraphin, Josh Smith, Amar'e Stoudemire, Carlos Boozer, Pero Antic, and Darrell Arthur for PF/C that could be gotten for cheap.

Guards Cory Joseph, and Alexy Shved, Mo Williams, as guards.

Only big names are Kanter and Marc Gasol.

Anyone think we would have any shot at Gasol? Or Kanter for that matter?

We do have the Trade Exception that will be generated from the HIbbert deal.

I'd offer Gasol as much money as we can and a 1+1 so we could resign him next year for more. IDK if we have enough room to do a max deal on him.

I would say there is a good chance that we end up with Lee. If we could turn Hibbert into Lee, prospect, 2nd that would be a good deal. So what prospect do we get from Golden State, they have to move Lee or they are over cap so we should get something its not like Hibbert, we didn't have to move him. For some reason this deal is takeing a long time for it just being cap space and a 2nd.

No shot at Gasol. He didn't set up meetings with anyone but Memphis.

Kanter small chance only because OKC won't want to pay the tax.

Trade targets are probably more realistic.

Train7492 wrote:I would say there is a good chance that we end up with Lee. If we could turn Hibbert into Lee, prospect, 2nd that would be a good deal. So what prospect do we get from Golden State, they have to move Lee or they are over cap so we should get something its not like Hibbert, we didn't have to move him. For some reason this deal is takeing a long time for it just being cap space and a 2nd.

Golden State is not just over the cap they're nearly $20 million over the Luxury Tax line. Trading Lee and taking back no salary saves them $45 million in salary and tax.

We could have kept Roy if we wanted a traditional center

Train7492 wrote:I would say there is a good chance that we end up with Lee. If we could turn Hibbert into Lee, prospect, 2nd that would be a good deal. So what prospect do we get from Golden State, they have to move Lee or they are over cap so we should get something its not like Hibbert, we didn't have to move him. For some reason this deal is takeing a long time for it just being cap space and a 2nd.

I think the Pacers are going to sign their FAs (including those returning) and fill up cap space starting on July 9th. Once that is done, the deal with the Lakers for Hibbert will be done, generating a $17.84M TPE.

What if Amar'e is cheap? He could probably only play about 20 minutes/game, but he could fit it with that up-tempo pace. I think I would actually like him as a starter at Center with Ian coming off the bench with Lavoy Allen (who would play the back-up 4 and some 5). I think he could run the floor and get some close shots/dunks in transition. We would just need some defense and a guy who can run the floor with a high FG%. Some rebounds (particularly offensive), maybe about 7-8/game in 20 mins would be great.

Amar'e would have a rejuvenated career a little bit in my mind. He does have a lot of miles on him, but he's still only 32. Plus last year he only played just over half the season at 21 mins/game. Being on a playoff team can't hurt either, as long as he doesn't mind living in Indy. Unfortunately I don't think he'd be the difference between the 2nd or 3rd round (Unless PG improves even more and is a full blown superstar and 1st team All-NBA), and certainly not the finals since our squad is so much different. But if we limit his minutes I could see him being productive for a couple years.

Wizop wrote:We could have kept Roy if we wanted a traditional center

I think we wanted a more mobile center and one that didn't self destruct every time he got outta bed wrong.

statsman wrote:

Train7492 wrote:I would say there is a good chance that we end up with Lee. If we could turn Hibbert into Lee, prospect, 2nd that would be a good deal. So what prospect do we get from Golden State, they have to move Lee or they are over cap so we should get something its not like Hibbert, we didn't have to move him. For some reason this deal is takeing a long time for it just being cap space and a 2nd.

I think the Pacers are going to sign their FAs (including those returning) and fill up cap space starting on July 9th. Once that is done, the deal with the Lakers for Hibbert will be done, generating a $17.84M TPE.

We need the cap space generated by the Hibbert deal in order to re-sign Stuckey, as we have no Bird rights on him. If there is a TPE generated? We've already committed to renouncing it immediately to use some cap space to sign Stuckey. However, even if we sign guys to get up to the cap line, dealing Hibbert for cap space to the Lakers would put us far enough below the cap that no cap holds combined (Scola/MLE/BAE/etc) would keep us above the cap, and teams below the cap don't create TPE's.

So, let's look at some options. As of right now, we are committed to the following players (x indicates that making team is still somewhat up in air):

George Hill / Joe Young (x)
Monta Ellis / Rodney Stuckey
CJ Miles / Solo Hill / Damjan Rudez
Paul George / Lavoy Allen / Shayne Whittington (x)
Ian Mahinmi / Myles Turner

Or, if you prefer the more old school look, we're here:
George Hill / Rodney Stuckey / Joe Young (x)
Monta Ellis / CJ Miles
Paul George / Solo Hill / Damjan Rudez
Lavoy Allen / Shayne Whittington (x)
Ian Mahinmi / Myles Turner

So, who's left? Let's look at some positions. I'll probably group as "Bigs" (some combination of PF and C), "Wings" (though we really don't need any as we're 5 or 6 deep, 7 if you play Hill at the 2 some, as well), and PG.

PG - Low need. Maybe a more "pure" style PG, and probably only a vet for the locker room
Andre Miller
Kendall Marshall
Nate Robinson
AJ Price
Jameer Nelson
Jason Terry
Austin Rivers
Donald Sloan
Nate Wolters
Mantas Kalnietis (oh, what the hell. He seems like a nice veteran piece in summer league. Maybe worth a shot in camp?)

Wings - Super low need. Emergency only, if at all. Vet minimum locker room voice, if anything
KJ McDaniels
Tayshaun Prince
Dorrell Wright
Glenn Robinson III
Marcus Thornton
Alan Anderson
John Jenkins
Dahntay Jones
Rasual Butler

Bigs - What everyone is looking for. Likely looking at 2 players needed.
Luis Scola (our own, clearly near the top of the list)
Cole Aldrich
Enes Kanter (likely too expensive, and OKC has rights, and likely will, to match any offer)
Jeff Withey
Greg Smith
Jason Maxiell
Quincy Acy
Mirza Teletovic
Elton Brand
Josh Smith
Brandon Davies
Darrell Arthur
Glen Davis
Carlos Boozer
Chris Copeland (though I view this as highly unlikely)
Joel Freeland
Jordan Hill
Ekpe Udoh
Amare Stoudemire
Henry Sims
Andrea Bargnani
Jeff Ayres (Pendergraph)
Matt Bonner
Jason Smith
Chuck Hayes
Kevin Seraphin
Michael Beasley
Tyrus Thomas
Luc Richard Mbah a Moute
Victor Claver (?)


Clearly, no massive home run guys left (Enes Kanter is about it....KJ McDaniels could be an attractive young piece available, but we have beyond no need). After that? Make good, redemption projects, or development guys.

Nate Wolters, Jordan Hill, and Matt Bonner would be the three I target, all for very different reasons.

We have 10 players committed to the roster, with 2 likely to make the roster, but likely to be challenged in camp. Bringing in 3-5 guys, essentially.

I'd bring in Teletovic and Withey as big men. I think Teletovic has one of the best shooting forms, and would allow us to play Paul George at the 3 without sacrificing the style of play we want. Withey would be a cheap option for me, and somewhat emulates the big body style of Roy Hibbert in limited matchups. I'd sign each of these guys for 2-3 year deals. Teletovic up to $4m per, Withey around $2.5m per. I'd then bring in EITHER Andre Miller or Jameer Nelson, whichever will accept a pure bench role in situations only. If neither? I'd bring in Kendall Marshall, Nate Wolters, and Mantas Kalnietis to play in training camp for a roster spot.

I'd bring in a veteran wing. Tayshaun Prince would be ideal, as he's more of a PF/SF at this point. Next, Rasual Butler; after that, Dahntay Jones. This would be in a tryout situation, essentially.

Tayshaun Prince would be great. I'd feel a lot better (even be pretty excited) about a relatively permanent small ball approach if it didn't involve Paul George being there full time. The committee of Mahamni, Turner and Allen would be a lot less scary if they were only covering minutes at the 5 with relatively small exposure at the 4.

On another note how did Glen Robinson III fall from grace so quickly?

I like Jason Smith as a small ball center that can shoot a bit, but still has some post footwork. Not an elite option, but are any of them?
Beasley continues to intrigue. The comment that I heard from the Wolves coaches was that he had the shortest attention span they've ever seen. He wasn't a bad kid, he was just uncoachable because he couldn't focus long enough to learn anything. I wonder if he'll bounce around for based on his talent until he turns 28 or 29 and then suddenly he'll "get it" and become a savvy vet over night.
Is he 28 yet

8305 wrote:Tayshaun Prince would be great. I'd feel a lot better (even be pretty excited) about a relatively permanent small ball approach if it didn't involve Paul George being there full time. The committee of Mahamni, Turner and Allen would be a lot less scary if they were only covering minutes at the 5 with relatively small exposure at the 4.

I'd rather have Hill/Monta/Miles/Paul George on the court than have to bench one of them for Tayshaun Prince. Honestly, Paul George is going to be bigger than most PF's he matches up against. And, unless we play PG at the PF position for 15-20 minutes a night (I don't think anyone is suggesting that he plays purely at the PF position yet, but unless you want to permanently bench one or more of Stuckey, Miles, and Solo, you have to play Paul at the PF position, at least a good amount.

8305 wrote:On another note how did Glen Robinson III fall from grace so quickly?

I think mostly poor circumstances? Minnesota was over full on roster spots when they drafted him and then waived to clear the roster spot when they wanted to claim Justin Hamilton off waivers. As for why Philadelphia didn't offer him a QO? I think it was above the league minimum, and they didn't want him to sign for that, but if they bring him back, likely want him to sign for the league minimum.

Stretch 4's that should fit nicely...
Mirza Teletovic
Matt Bonner

Scoot McGroot wrote:I'd rather have Hill/Monta/Miles/Paul George on the court than have to bench one of them for Tayshaun Prince. Honestly, Paul George is going to be bigger than most PF's he matches up against. And, unless we play PG at the PF position for 15-20 minutes a night (I don't think anyone is suggesting that he plays purely at the PF position yet, but unless you want to permanently bench one or more of Stuckey, Miles, and Solo, you have to play Paul at the PF position, at least a good amount.

No disagreement that at games end you want those 4 guys on the floor with whoever manning the 5. But let's say your are playing Toronto (or any team who has a strong wing scorer) and a less threatening guy at the 4. Do you take one of the best lock wing defenders and assign him to guard the 4 while that teams wings go to work on Miles and either Hill or Monta? Or do you roll with Prince who can still spread the floor, guard the 4 allowing you to use George to his best advantage?

Or say you are playing one of the teams that have big 4's. Do you want see PG getting beat up by the likes of Zack Randolph or Lemarcus Aldridge.

8305 wrote:

Scoot McGroot wrote:I'd rather have Hill/Monta/Miles/Paul George on the court than have to bench one of them for Tayshaun Prince. Honestly, Paul George is going to be bigger than most PF's he matches up against. And, unless we play PG at the PF position for 15-20 minutes a night (I don't think anyone is suggesting that he plays purely at the PF position yet, but unless you want to permanently bench one or more of Stuckey, Miles, and Solo, you have to play Paul at the PF position, at least a good amount.

No disagreement that at games end you want those 4 guys on the floor with whoever manning the 5. But let's say your are playing Toronto (or any team who has a strong wing scorer) and a less threatening guy at the 4. Do you take one of the best lock wing defenders and assign him to guard the 4 while that teams wings go to work on Miles and either Hill or Monta? Or do you roll with Prince who can still spread the floor, guard the 4 allowing you to use George to his best advantage?

Or say you are playing one of the teams that have big 4's. Do you want see PG getting beat up by the likes of Zack Randolph or Lemarcus Aldridge.

No. I have PG defend the strong wing scorer and have Miles defend the non-threatening 4. For Toronto, I have Solo or Miles guard Demarre Carroll or Patrick Patterson and have PG guard Demar. I don't see much of an issue here. Don't think of it as much of "Paul George must play the 4 and if he's doing so he can only defend the other team's 4, no matter the situation". We'll probably play more fluid and free of form than that. Theoretically, I don't bench CJ Miles or Monta Ellis to play Tayshaun Prince major minutes. No matter how you shake that out, you're going to be much worse on the court.

As for the teams that have big 4's? Check out my run down in the "starting PF" thread. I went team by team. There's really not a single one in the Eastern Conference (especially not in our division), so there's 52 games a year we don't have to worry about that. As for essentially San Antonio, Memphis, Sacramento and maybe Utah? Well, there's 8 total games a year we have to worry about. But, we have to worry about them anyway. Otherwise, the NBA has gone to much more of "Paul George's" at the 4. I'm not going to play a different style of basketball all season long just to worry about 8 games a year. If we were, we would've plead with Roy Hibbert to come back, and David West likely wouldn't have opted out. We'd be able to continue that style of play. Or, we re-sign Scola for those few games a year.

Teletovic is good. I think the idea of Ayres coming back is intriguing. I always liked him.

MNPacersfan wrote:I like Jason Smith as a small ball center that can shoot a bit, but still has some post footwork. Not an elite option, but are any of them?

Jason Smith = gone to the Magic