Page 1 of 3
Vogel: "Our backup PG is"....Joe Young?!?
Posted: Tue Oct 13, 2015 5:05 am
by Scoot McGroot
http://www.indystar.com/story/sports/nba/pacers/2015/10/12/pacers-new-backup-point-guard-joe-young/73833652/When the Indiana Pacers selected Joe Young in the second round of the draft last June, coach Frank Vogel had a specific role in mind for his 23-year-old rookie. On Monday, Vogel announced that Young is ready to be the Pacers’ backup point guard.
Vogel said Young has impressed him enough through three preseason games be the floor general of the second unit in his remolded offense.
....
“If you don’t give them minutes early and they sit on the bench and watch the whole time, then they’re not really going to help you that much late in the season when we need them to,” Vogel said of his rookies. He added of Young: “He’s going to struggle at times. We’re committed to getting (Young and first-round rookie Myles Turner) some minutes early on as long as they keep proving themselves and having the right approach. We want to see they develop early on.”
Sounds like there is a plan in place for Turner/Young to play good minutes this year in development. Also, sounds like we'll see essentially a guard/wing rotation of:
Hill/Young
Ellis/Stuckey
Miles/Budinger or Solo
Re: Vogel: "Our backup PG is"....Joe Young?!?
Posted: Wed Oct 14, 2015 4:04 am
by Pacemaker94
Looks like Stuckey's minutes will be down unless he plays at the 3 as well.
Sent from my iPhone using RealGM Forums
Re: Vogel: "Our backup PG is"....Joe Young?!?
Posted: Wed Oct 14, 2015 9:57 am
by basketballwacko2
Mighty Joe Young!!!
Re: Vogel: "Our backup PG is"....Joe Young?!?
Posted: Wed Oct 14, 2015 12:57 pm
by Skejcik
im glad we have this guy. Go Joe!!
Re: Vogel: "Our backup PG is"....Joe Young?!?
Posted: Fri Oct 16, 2015 1:01 pm
by Wizop
[quote="Scoot McGroot"Also, sounds like we'll see essentially a guard/wing rotation of:
Hill/Young
Ellis/Stuckey
Miles/Budinger or Solo[/quote]
PG has to be in that wing rotation as well. and maybe Little Dog (GRob III) too although maybe he'll just be a injury replacement this year.
Re: Vogel: "Our backup PG is"....Joe Young?!?
Posted: Sat Oct 17, 2015 5:03 am
by Miller4ever
...We now have some trade pieces.
Re: Vogel: "Our backup PG is"....Joe Young?!?
Posted: Sat Oct 17, 2015 8:28 pm
by chube
With the wings likely being handled by PG, Stuck, Ellis, Chase, and CJ, everybody think it's all but official that Solo is all but done? Sounds like GR3 has maybe even leapfrogged him
Sent from my iPhone using RealGM Forums
Re: Vogel: "Our backup PG is"....Joe Young?!?
Posted: Sun Oct 18, 2015 1:14 am
by boomershadow
I still kinda wish Toney Douglas would get some more of an opportunity.
Re: Vogel:
Posted: Sun Oct 18, 2015 3:21 am
by Scoot McGroot
chube wrote:With the wings likely being handled by PG, Stuck, Ellis, Chase, and CJ, everybody think it's all but official that Solo is all but done? Sounds like GR3 has maybe even leapfrogged him
Sent from my iPhone using RealGM Forums
I have a lot of trouble seeing his 4th year option being picked up before the season starts. Though, it's so cheap, it's hard not to pick it up. I'd think if we could get anything of value, he'd be dealt right now. Like, 2nd rounder.
Re: Vogel:
Posted: Mon Oct 19, 2015 5:34 pm
by pacers33granger
Scoot McGroot wrote:chube wrote:With the wings likely being handled by PG, Stuck, Ellis, Chase, and CJ, everybody think it's all but official that Solo is all but done? Sounds like GR3 has maybe even leapfrogged him
Sent from my iPhone using RealGM Forums
I have a lot of trouble seeing his 4th year option being picked up before the season starts. Though, it's so cheap, it's hard not to pick it up. I'd think if we could get anything of value, he'd be dealt right now. Like, 2nd rounder.
I'd be kind of shocked if they didn't pick it up. We need someone on the wing who can defend and he's quite good at that. I'll be kind of annoyed if we don't just because we traded for Budinger. We can't rely on him to be healthy, he can't play the 2, and he's not very good when healthy anyways.
Re: Vogel:
Posted: Mon Oct 19, 2015 8:57 pm
by Scoot McGroot
pacers33granger wrote:Scoot McGroot wrote:chube wrote:With the wings likely being handled by PG, Stuck, Ellis, Chase, and CJ, everybody think it's all but official that Solo is all but done? Sounds like GR3 has maybe even leapfrogged him
Sent from my iPhone using RealGM Forums
I have a lot of trouble seeing his 4th year option being picked up before the season starts. Though, it's so cheap, it's hard not to pick it up. I'd think if we could get anything of value, he'd be dealt right now. Like, 2nd rounder.
I'd be kind of shocked if they didn't pick it up. We need someone on the wing who can defend and he's quite good at that. I'll be kind of annoyed if we don't just because we traded for Budinger. We can't rely on him to be healthy, he can't play the 2, and he's not very good when healthy anyways.
I wouldn't think it's because we traded for Budinger. I'd think it's because Solo played his value down in summer league, and still hasn't shown that he deserves minutes over Chase Budinger, and Budinger is technically 3rd string at SF in line for minutes. It's more that Solo has not shown enough to be a true rotation player long-term (from what he's shown, thus far).
Plus, oddly enough, that $2.3m 4th year option for Solo is the difference between a max contract in the summer of 2016 or not.
Re: Vogel:
Posted: Mon Oct 19, 2015 9:20 pm
by pacers33granger
Scoot McGroot wrote:pacers33granger wrote:Scoot McGroot wrote:
I have a lot of trouble seeing his 4th year option being picked up before the season starts. Though, it's so cheap, it's hard not to pick it up. I'd think if we could get anything of value, he'd be dealt right now. Like, 2nd rounder.
I'd be kind of shocked if they didn't pick it up. We need someone on the wing who can defend and he's quite good at that. I'll be kind of annoyed if we don't just because we traded for Budinger. We can't rely on him to be healthy, he can't play the 2, and he's not very good when healthy anyways.
I wouldn't think it's because we traded for Budinger. I'd think it's because Solo played his value down in summer league, and still hasn't shown that he deserves minutes over Chase Budinger, and Budinger is technically 3rd string at SF in line for minutes. It's more that Solo has not shown enough to be a true rotation player long-term (from what he's shown, thus far).
Plus, oddly enough, that $2.3m 4th year option for Solo is the difference between a max contract in the summer of 2016 or not.
I'd disagree that he hasn't shown that he deserves minutes. He's shown to be a plus defender and that was after being thrown into the starting lineup last year and usually guarding the best wing. And I think we need a wing defender at the end of the rotation rather than a scorer whose not that great at scoring.
His offense sucks and it looks like it will never be anything at all, but his numbers last year aren't all that far off from Budinger's in his time with the Wolves. They're just 2% less on FGs and 3s and with 3 more attempts per game. And his other numbers are either the same or better, except for rebounding which is slightly worse and turnovers which are slightly higher. The rest of Hill's advanced stats (WS, BPM, VORP) are better as well.
I know that he looked very bad in summer league, but I think that was more about him trying to play a game he can't. Once he's an 8-12 mpg guy who is in there solely for defense and making the right play on offense (I think he does this well when he's not in attack mode) I think he will look just fine.
And I'd bet we could easily trade him next offseason if need be. If it takes a couple of 2nds to even do it so we can sign a max guy (which we'd have in place first), then it shouldn't be a problem at all.
Re: Vogel:
Posted: Tue Oct 20, 2015 12:08 am
by Scoot McGroot
pacers33granger wrote:Scoot McGroot wrote:pacers33granger wrote:
I'd be kind of shocked if they didn't pick it up. We need someone on the wing who can defend and he's quite good at that. I'll be kind of annoyed if we don't just because we traded for Budinger. We can't rely on him to be healthy, he can't play the 2, and he's not very good when healthy anyways.
I wouldn't think it's because we traded for Budinger. I'd think it's because Solo played his value down in summer league, and still hasn't shown that he deserves minutes over Chase Budinger, and Budinger is technically 3rd string at SF in line for minutes. It's more that Solo has not shown enough to be a true rotation player long-term (from what he's shown, thus far).
Plus, oddly enough, that $2.3m 4th year option for Solo is the difference between a max contract in the summer of 2016 or not.
I'd disagree that he hasn't shown that he deserves minutes. He's shown to be a plus defender and that was after being thrown into the starting lineup last year and usually guarding the best wing. And I think we need a wing defender at the end of the rotation rather than a scorer whose not that great at scoring.
His offense sucks and it looks like it will never be anything at all, but his numbers last year aren't all that far off from Budinger's in his time with the Wolves. They're just 2% less on FGs and 3s and with 3 more attempts per game. And his other numbers are either the same or better, except for rebounding which is slightly worse and turnovers which are slightly higher. The rest of Hill's advanced stats (WS, BPM, VORP) are better as well.
I know that he looked very bad in summer league, but I think that was more about him trying to play a game he can't.
Once he's an 8-12 mpg guy who is in there solely for defense and making the right play on offense (I think he does this well when he's not in attack mode) I think he will look just fine.
And I'd bet we could easily trade him next offseason if need be. If it takes a couple of 2nds to even do it so we can sign a max guy (which we'd have in place first), then it shouldn't be a problem at all.
I think the bold should indicate that he's not worth picking up the option on. Especially if it would take 2 2nds to dump him, when we could set him him to be dumped for free, now.
Re: Vogel:
Posted: Tue Oct 20, 2015 12:23 am
by pacers33granger
Scoot McGroot wrote:pacers33granger wrote:Scoot McGroot wrote:
I wouldn't think it's because we traded for Budinger. I'd think it's because Solo played his value down in summer league, and still hasn't shown that he deserves minutes over Chase Budinger, and Budinger is technically 3rd string at SF in line for minutes. It's more that Solo has not shown enough to be a true rotation player long-term (from what he's shown, thus far).
Plus, oddly enough, that $2.3m 4th year option for Solo is the difference between a max contract in the summer of 2016 or not.
I'd disagree that he hasn't shown that he deserves minutes. He's shown to be a plus defender and that was after being thrown into the starting lineup last year and usually guarding the best wing. And I think we need a wing defender at the end of the rotation rather than a scorer whose not that great at scoring.
His offense sucks and it looks like it will never be anything at all, but his numbers last year aren't all that far off from Budinger's in his time with the Wolves. They're just 2% less on FGs and 3s and with 3 more attempts per game. And his other numbers are either the same or better, except for rebounding which is slightly worse and turnovers which are slightly higher. The rest of Hill's advanced stats (WS, BPM, VORP) are better as well.
I know that he looked very bad in summer league, but I think that was more about him trying to play a game he can't.
Once he's an 8-12 mpg guy who is in there solely for defense and making the right play on offense (I think he does this well when he's not in attack mode) I think he will look just fine.
And I'd bet we could easily trade him next offseason if need be. If it takes a couple of 2nds to even do it so we can sign a max guy (which we'd have in place first), then it shouldn't be a problem at all.
I think the bold should indicate that he's not worth picking up the option on. Especially if it would take 2 2nds to dump him, when we could set him him to be dumped for free, now.
2.4 mil for an 8-10th man who can come in and do his job is pretty standard, if not lower than market value. Gary Neal just got 2.1, Dante Cunningham got 2.8, Casspi got 2.8, Weems got 2.8, Barton got 3.5, etc.
And I don't see a scenario where we need to dump him anyways. If it's for a max guy (which has a low chance of happening), then we pay the cost. And if it's just because he regressed this season, then whatever, we let him expire or trade him if someone wants him.
I guess I'm not as down on him as others are and I'm not sold that our other young guys will beat him out over the season.
Re: Vogel:
Posted: Tue Oct 20, 2015 2:32 am
by Scoot McGroot
pacers33granger wrote:Scoot McGroot wrote:pacers33granger wrote:
I'd disagree that he hasn't shown that he deserves minutes. He's shown to be a plus defender and that was after being thrown into the starting lineup last year and usually guarding the best wing. And I think we need a wing defender at the end of the rotation rather than a scorer whose not that great at scoring.
His offense sucks and it looks like it will never be anything at all, but his numbers last year aren't all that far off from Budinger's in his time with the Wolves. They're just 2% less on FGs and 3s and with 3 more attempts per game. And his other numbers are either the same or better, except for rebounding which is slightly worse and turnovers which are slightly higher. The rest of Hill's advanced stats (WS, BPM, VORP) are better as well.
I know that he looked very bad in summer league, but I think that was more about him trying to play a game he can't. Once he's an 8-12 mpg guy who is in there solely for defense and making the right play on offense (I think he does this well when he's not in attack mode) I think he will look just fine.
And I'd bet we could easily trade him next offseason if need be. If it takes a couple of 2nds to even do it so we can sign a max guy (which we'd have in place first), then it shouldn't be a problem at all.
I think the bold should indicate that he's not worth picking up the option on. Especially if it would take 2 2nds to dump him, when we could set him him to be dumped for free, now.
2.4 mil for an 8-10th man who can come in and do his job is pretty standard, if not lower than market value. Gary Neal just got 2.1, Dante Cunningham got 2.8, Casspi got 2.8, Weems got 2.8, Barton got 3.5, etc.
And I don't see a scenario where we need to dump him anyways. If it's for a max guy (which has a low chance of happening), then we pay the cost. And if it's just because he regressed this season, then whatever, we let him expire or trade him if someone wants him.
I guess I'm not as down on him as others are and I'm not sold that our other young guys will beat him out over the season.
I'm just very disappointed that he hasn't done anything to push himself ahead of the others since the 1st month of two of last season, and merely looked not only a poor fit in any sense of offensive play in summer league, but that he actively was the worst player on the court at many times and hurt his team much of the time. I think it's hard to say that he's proven to be worth $2+ million, when we could go out with the BAE and find a guy to be better than him. Or, a guy like GR3 could end up pushing him further down the list and replace him at a minimum salary.
Honestly, I'd rather we'd have signed a Rasual Butler for the minimum and cut him loose this year.
Re: Vogel: "Our backup PG is"....Joe Young?!?
Posted: Tue Oct 20, 2015 7:49 pm
by Wizop
Scoot McGroot wrote:Also, sounds like we'll see essentially a guard/wing rotation of:
Hill/Young
Ellis/Stuckey
Miles/Budinger or Solo
PG has to be in that wing rotation as well. and maybe Little Dog (GRob III) too although maybe he'll just be a injury replacement this year.
Re: Vogel: "Our backup PG is"....Joe Young?!?
Posted: Wed Oct 21, 2015 4:51 pm
by 8305
I wonder if GRIII's strong play in the preseason could move him ahead of both Solo and Budinger? While the Pacers want to have as good a season as possible (make the playoffs) I think by any assessment this is a developmental season. Given that if Robinson looks like he can play I'd let him.
Re: Vogel: "Our backup PG is"....Joe Young?!?
Posted: Wed Oct 21, 2015 5:33 pm
by Moooose
I like Solo's potential to be a valuable defense guy, but with the strong play of Glenn Robinson and with Budinger looking to be a better fit, Solo's minutes will go down. He's not getting the minutes to prove himself unless he steps up big time.
Re: Vogel: "Our backup PG is"....Joe Young?!?
Posted: Wed Oct 21, 2015 5:49 pm
by pacers33granger
Moooose wrote:I like Solo's potential to be a valuable defense guy, but with the strong play of Glenn Robinson and with Budinger looking to be a better fit, Solo's minutes will go down. He's not getting the minutes to prove himself unless he steps up big time.
This is what I don't get. Budinger has looked awful in preseason. He's shooting 23% overall and 12% from three and has looked overmatched on defense. Yeah it's only been 3 games, but he looked like that for 3 years in Minny. In theory he's a better fit because of his shooting, but he offers absolutely nothing when his shot isn't falling and it hasn't been for a long time now.
Re: Vogel: "Our backup PG is"....Joe Young?!?
Posted: Thu Oct 22, 2015 5:25 am
by Miller4ever
Budinger played really well down the stretch last season once he recovered from his injury. It's the preseason.
But if it's all the same...I wanna see GRIII start.