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I'm not wishing any bad luck nor do I have any ill will toward big Roy. But look at this stat line for Thursdays game against the Kings: 12 min 0 points 2 rbs 1 ast and zero blocks. His PER is 11.82. Roy just turned 29 last month, he's not that old. I just gotta wonder what the heck is going on with him that has caused him to regress like this?

I know we could have gotten more out of him 2 yrs ago rather than the 2nd round pick that we got last summer, but right now I'm happy he's in LA and we have Christmas in Ft Wayne.

Can't say I'm too surprised. Cousins is a nightmare for anybody and Roy clearly has some flaws in his game that have multiplied in a last couple years,

Also, Roy isn't nearly the key cog he was here. In Indy, he was paired with Paul, who wasn't quite the consistent threat he is now, and guys like G-Hill and D-West who are offensively solid, but can't consistently lean on to light up the box score. But with young guns like Randle, Russell and Clarkson, not to mention the Kobe show, there's not much statistically for him.

He's kind of a doof and I'm not convinced that he was the locker room cancer he was rumored to be. He always seemed like a solid teammate. Has he clearly regressed? Yes, but by most accounts it's not for a lack of effort. Just one of those things where it seems like he's his own worst enemy.

If his contract wasn't what it is, different story. It's the curse of the blessing of a max contract. On a more reasonable contract, I'd be okay with him coming back. Objectively though, the ship has sailed.


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One of the things that has killed Roy is that the NBA style of play has changed drastically over the last couple years. With the rise of the "4 Out" type strategies, and push for more mobile big men to push the ball up to their wings, Roy is just being left behind, literally. It's hard to play a style that suits him best; one where the team slows down it's offense and grinds out games.

With Mahinmi playing the way he has been and a rookie center that looks like he'll turn into a real stud, I just don't see a place for him here anymore. I too don't think he was the cancer that some of the fans villainized him as. But as much as I loved the old Blue Collar, Gold Swagger crew, "that ship has sailed" seems like the real applicable statement here. I really think that he could find a role as a defense-first big man off the bench for a decent team. Or a starter on a team as terrible as the Lakers this year.

Given a situation in which Myles Turner develops his skills as the stretch 4 that some have theorized he could be, and a very reasonable contract for Roy, I wouldn't mind that being here. But I think the relationship between him and the team has really been degraded to the point where that wouldn't be possible, even if Larry was the type to retread over those old roads. And he really isn't.

I don't think Hibbert was a cancer in the traditional sense, but I still think he was one last year. He seems like a good guy, but he clearly lets things get to him too much and that can be horrible for a team and especially when it comes from someone who should be a leader.

His body language last year was terrible and really with Paul injured, Hibbert being in his "prime," and the one max guy, he should have been one of the guys setting an example, like Hill did. I'm fine with West kind of mailing it in because he just couldn't be that leader/mentor anymore and gave all he had to it the past few years.

He's really just a guy who ultimately could not handle the pressure. So I don't think he was a malcontent, but he was mailing it in, wasn't engaged, and set a poor example. That's still a cancer to me.

Here's a comparison.

http://8points9seconds.com/2016/01/07/is-ian-mahinmi-as-good-as-roy-hibbert-was-for-the-indiana-pacers/

"Ian Mahinmi has been much better than expected this season with the Indaina Pacers, averaging 8.2 points and 7.2 rebounds a game. It isn’t that he’s just getting more minutes, he’s actually playing his best since he got to Indiana.

When you look at his per 100 possession stats on Basketball-Reference, you see this is the best season he’s had since the limited minutes he played with the Dallas Mavericks in the 2010-11 season.

...

In the preseason when he scored 16 points, we joked about his ‘offensive explosion’ while noting how he was projected to compared to Roy Hibbert. He never scored quite as much as Indiana’s former starting center, even when you adjusted for pace. Before the season began Basketball-Reference had him projected to score 8.9 points and 9.4 rebounds per a game this season, which he’s relatively close to. So far he’s compared well to Hibbert offensively.

Rk Player Season G MP FG FGA FG% eFG% FT% ORB DRB TRB AST STL BLK TOV PF PTS
1 Roy Hibbert 2014-15 76 25.3 4.2 9.3 .446 .446 .824 2.1 5.1 7.1 1.1 0.2 1.6 1.4 2.8 10.6
2 Ian Mahinmi 2015-16 33 24.2 3.3 5.5 .590 .590 .557 2.1 5.2 7.2 1.4 0.9 1.0 1.1 3.2 8.2

However more important than replacing Hibbert’s 10.6 points a game (roughly his career average) was replacing his defense — and particular his rim protection — and that was the big question. Mahinmi’s rim defense was always close to Roy’s, but that was starters versus bench. Now Ian is facing tougher competition this season as he’s become the Pacers starting center. So when you look at last season’s rim defense numbers, Roy Hibbert ended the season limiting defenders to a 42.7% field goal percentage. This season Ian Mahinmi’s stands at 53.7%, that’s rank 61st among centers in the NBA who have played 20 or more games. It is also up from the 45.3% he had a season ago, which ranked him 12th. For the record Hibbert has fallen down the list as well but still stands above Mahinmi at 48.9%.

Playing against starters now is part of the reason his defense has suffered, but he’s also affected by the Pacers style and roster changes. Hibbert had David West and Paul George to help him, but now it’s C.J. Miles often taking the power forward spot while PG defends on the wing still. C.J. does a pretty good job, and more often than not has made up for any mistakes by shooting lights on from 3-point range, but he’s not nearly as big as West was, as C.J. stands 6’6 compared to West’s 6’9 frame.

It’s a strategic gamble, and, for the most part, is has worked as Indiana’s defensive rating is at 98.6 only two more points a game than the peak Roy Hibbert years. The Pacers net rating has dropped down to 3.8 compared to the 4.8 and 5 that Indiana sported in 2012-13 and 2013-14. Indiana’s scheme has went away from rim defense being a top priority and moved towards a more balanced approach on defense, and more emphasis on the offensive end overall.

It is impossible to compare the two directly as the roster has turned over so much, but it’s fair to say that while Roy’s time was up in Indiana, he still was a slightly better defender and scorer, for what’s that worth. It’s hard to look at Hibbert’s numbers from this season and take them seriously (6.9 ppg, 6 rpg) as the Lakers are more of a carnival act with the main attraction being Kobe Bryant than an actual basketball team.

That’s not to say it wasn’t the right move. It was clear that Roy Hibbert no longer wanted to be in Indiana nor did Larry Bird really want him there. The original contract he was on was likely one that the Pacers assumed he would grow into more and that never really happened. While he did fine as a Pacer, it became harder to justify the $15 million a season when he wasn’t improving much on the offensive end.

Mahinmi has served as a nice stop-gap between the Roy Hibbert and hopefully Myles Turner eras. Mahinmi deserves plenty of praise for stepping upping his production to nearly fill the gap, but he hasn’t fully covered what Hibbert did on either end. However to Mahinmi’s favor he seems more like a chemistry guy than Roy was. Hibbert’s moodiness was fine when the Pacers were at their peak, but as they declined it made it easier for Bird to look at the situation and see Hibbert as expendable. When you look at Mahinmi’s contract and the league averages, it becomes clear that the equation of money÷production meant Mahinmi would be an acceptable next step for Indiana.

...

The mix of money, chemistry, and production combined to make it was the right decision to move on, but it is up to Myles Turner to develop into a more consistent and productive player than both Hibbert and Mahinmi for that decision to truly look brilliant in the long-term"

Scoot McGroot wrote:One of the things that has killed Roy is that the NBA style of play has changed drastically over the last couple years. With the rise of the "4 Out" type strategies, and push for more mobile big men to push the ball up to their wings, Roy is just being left behind, literally. It's hard to play a style that suits him best; one where the team slows down it's offense and grinds out games.

Well he can always got to Europe they play a slower game there or China.

It will be interesting to see the type of contracts he gets from here on out. At the end of the day, he's still 7'2" and it's still a big man's sport, even with the small-ball style that has taken over.

I still think he can hold an NBA job for another 5-6 years, just not at the contract or role on a team we all expected a couple years ago.


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chube wrote:It will be interesting to see the type of contracts he gets from here on out. At the end of the day, he's still 7'2" and it's still a big man's sport, even with the small-ball style that has taken over.

I still think he can hold an NBA job for another 5-6 years, just not at the contract or role on a team we all expected a couple years ago.


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He's gonna be a backup center from now on unless he goes to a team that will say all they need is a shot blocker.

basketballwacko2 wrote:

chube wrote:It will be interesting to see the type of contracts he gets from here on out. At the end of the day, he's still 7'2" and it's still a big man's sport, even with the small-ball style that has taken over.

I still think he can hold an NBA job for another 5-6 years, just not at the contract or role on a team we all expected a couple years ago.


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He's gonna be a backup center from now on unless he goes to a team that will say all they need is a shot blocker.

Or unless he magically becomes a MUCH better passer; specifically, outlet passing.

Scoot McGroot wrote:

basketballwacko2 wrote:

chube wrote:It will be interesting to see the type of contracts he gets from here on out. At the end of the day, he's still 7'2" and it's still a big man's sport, even with the small-ball style that has taken over.

I still think he can hold an NBA job for another 5-6 years, just not at the contract or role on a team we all expected a couple years ago.


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He's gonna be a backup center from now on unless he goes to a team that will say all they need is a shot blocker.

Or unless he magically becomes a MUCH better passer; specifically, outlet passing.

The passing aspect of his game is probably what I was most disappointed about in his time here. He was never going to be a plus on offense, just doesn't have the body for it really. But after working out with Walton I expected him to at least be able to pass to cutters or out of a double team and he just couldn't do it.