Game 71: Indiana Pacers (36-34) @ Boston Celtics (45-26) - 7:30 PM ET

[ducler]

[Pacersike]

http://www.indystar.com/story/sports/nba/pacers/2017/03/22/paul-george-gets-little-help-pacers-fall-celtics/98589710/?from=global&sessionKey=&autologin=



Strong? Brilliance? Blistering? Really?

Paul George his individual stats:

FG%: .423 barely qualifies as good enough
3P%: .385 very good, not strong
FT%: .769 good, not strong
REB: 5 good, not strong
BLK: 1 good, not strong
STL: 3 strong
AST/TO: 2/5 not good to stay polite

It bothers me quite a bit how some see this as a one direction problem: Paul George is awesome but he gets little help.

Not many, but there are numerous other NBA players who can score 37 points with the same below average efficiency if given the green light.

The team played 6 minutes without PG on the court, going from 19-21 behind to 27-31 behind or as little as 2 points differential.

PG himself was at -4

How does this guy dare to write an article mentioning how Paul George gets little help, not only overrating PG's performance, but also severely underrating Jeff Teague's performance? Who was outstanding btw

“They’ve been together for a while and they’ve been through battles together. They know how to rise to another level. It’s just what you see with chemistry teams. They just know at a certain point to take it to the next level and they did tonight.”

Chemistry my ass. Leadership. Players who can't stand losing and are not afraid to tell their teammates to give some **** effort.
David West was the heart and soul of the Pacers ECF teams. Draymond Green is the heart and soul of the Warriors.

Our bench sucks, I know that, but the great Paul George of march is averaging 3.6 turnovers for 3.1 assists in march.
For a player who refuses to play against bigs (which would help cut down his turnovers), that is just awful.


https://www.espn.com/nba/statistics/player/_/stat/assists/sort/assistTurnoverRatio/count/81

81 out of 83 with only star players of lottery teams in his proximity. With as much difference between PG(81) and Derozan(74), as between Derozan(74) and Will Barton (47).

Sure, PG could use some (much) better help, I won't deny that, but please, let's not act like PG is freaking awesome and that his lack of good leadership or terrible assist/turnover ratio of 1.08 is not in any way for a part responsible for the suckiness of his help.

[Pacers_Freak]

http://www.indystar.com/story/sports/nba/pacers/2017/03/22/paul-george-gets-little-help-pacers-fall-celtics/98589710/?from=global&sessionKey=&autologin=



Strong? Brilliance? Blistering? Really?

Paul George his individual stats:

FG%: .423 barely qualifies as good enough
3P%: .385 very good, not strong
FT%: .769 good, not strong
REB: 5 good, not strong
BLK: 1 good, not strong
STL: 3 strong
AST/TO: 2/5 not good to stay polite

It bothers me quite a bit how some see this as a one direction problem: Paul George is awesome but he gets little help.

Not many, but there are numerous other NBA players who can score 37 points with the same below average efficiency if given the green light.

The team played 6 minutes without PG on the court, going from 19-21 behind to 27-31 behind or as little as 2 points differential.

PG himself was at -4

How does this guy dare to write an article mentioning how Paul George gets little help, not only overrating PG's performance, but also severely underrating Jeff Teague's performance? Who was outstanding btw

“They’ve been together for a while and they’ve been through battles together. They know how to rise to another level. It’s just what you see with chemistry teams. They just know at a certain point to take it to the next level and they did tonight.”

Chemistry my ass. Leadership. Players who can't stand losing and are not afraid to tell their teammates to give some **** effort.
David West was the heart and soul of the Pacers ECF teams. Draymond Green is the heart and soul of the Warriors.

Our bench sucks, I know that, but the great Paul George of march is averaging 3.6 turnovers for 3.1 assists in march.
For a player who refuses to play against bigs (which would help cut down his turnovers), that is just awful.


https://www.espn.com/nba/statistics/player/_/stat/assists/sort/assistTurnoverRatio/count/81

81 out of 83 with only star players of lottery teams in his proximity. With as much difference between PG(81) and Derozan(74), as between Derozan(74) and Will Barton (47).

Sure, PG could use some (much) better help, I won't deny that, but please, let's not act like PG is freaking awesome and that his lack of good leadership or terrible assist/turnover ratio of 1.08 is not in any way for a part responsible for the suckiness of his help.

Dude watch the games. Teague played really well but other than that there was zero help out there. Lavoy was our next best player because he was a monster on the glass. You percentages are strongly skewed because he missed a lot of shots late when his legs were gone from playing all 24 minutes of the 2nd half. Anyone who actually watched the game last night knew the PG was the best player on the floor for both teams. It may not look like that in a box score as you look at your cute percentages but on the court there was no doubt who the best player was. He does need more help. Teague provided help last night but no one else did. I'm by no means a PG apologist but that is one of the worst PG negative posts I've read on here. And last night he did not deserve to be ripped. If he weren't on the court lord knows how many we would have lost by. Also you said we only lost 2 points when PG was off the court but he was -4.... that simple math would say we lost by 6. But, we lost by 9. You can't even look at the box score right smh.

[Pacersike]

Dude watch the games. Teague played really well but other than that there was zero help out there. Lavoy was our next best player because he was a monster on the glass. You percentages are strongly skewed because he missed a lot of shots late when his legs were gone from playing all 24 minutes of the 2nd half. Anyone who actually watched the game last night knew the PG was the best player on the floor for both teams. It may not look like that in a box score as you look at your cute percentages but on the court there was no doubt who the best player was. He does need more help. Teague provided help last night but no one else did. I'm by no means a PG apologist but that is one of the worst PG negative posts I've read on here. And last night he did not deserve to be ripped. If he weren't on the court lord knows how many we would have lost by. Also you said we only lost 2 points when PG was off the court but he was -4.... that simple math would say we lost by 6. But, we lost by 9. You can't even look at the box score right smh.

I don't intend to rip his performance last night. I'm just saying he wasn't that brilliant or strong last night.
His assist/turnover ratio over the entire season is worthy of ripping though, especially because he swiped a possible solution for it right off the tabe after 1 game.

You are right you are no PG apologist, because you provided evidence of why he wasn't that great last night.
Brilliance would demand his legs do holding up. I have seen it before with other players, even with PG, though not as often.

I still have to watch the game, but there is little chance I would change my point of view.
Good leaders know how to motivate their helpers. Helpers need help of their own, but that is hard to do when you rack up more turnovers than assists. I have seen plenty of PG games to know what type of help he provides his helpers with.

It's not a one way street is all I'm saying. The bench needs an upgrade, but PG's leadership could use one too. His attitude perhaps too, because playing the PF could help to get his turnovers down. One game against AD, who can even play center, is hardly a good way to see if it is doable or not.

[Pacers_Freak]

Dude watch the games. Teague played really well but other than that there was zero help out there. Lavoy was our next best player because he was a monster on the glass. You percentages are strongly skewed because he missed a lot of shots late when his legs were gone from playing all 24 minutes of the 2nd half. Anyone who actually watched the game last night knew the PG was the best player on the floor for both teams. It may not look like that in a box score as you look at your cute percentages but on the court there was no doubt who the best player was. He does need more help. Teague provided help last night but no one else did. I'm by no means a PG apologist but that is one of the worst PG negative posts I've read on here. And last night he did not deserve to be ripped. If he weren't on the court lord knows how many we would have lost by. Also you said we only lost 2 points when PG was off the court but he was -4.... that simple math would say we lost by 6. But, we lost by 9. You can't even look at the box score right smh.

I don't intend to rip his performance last night. I'm just saying he wasn't that brilliant or strong last night.
His assist/turnover ratio over the entire season is worthy of ripping though, especially because he swiped a possible solution for it right off the tabe after 1 game.

You are right you are no PG apologist, because you provided evidence of why he wasn't that great last night.
Brilliance would demand his legs do holding up. I have seen it before with other players, even with PG, though not as often.

I still have to watch the game, but there is little chance I would change my point of view.
Good leaders know how to motivate their helpers. Helpers need help of their own, but that is hard to do when you rack up more turnovers than assists. I have seen plenty of PG games to know what type of help he provides his helpers with.

It's not a one way street is all I'm saying. The bench needs an upgrade, but PG's leadership could use one too. His attitude perhaps too, because playing the PF could help to get his turnovers down. One game against AD, who can even play center, is hardly a good way to see if it is doable or not.

I don't think he is a great leader... That is a whole different discussion. IMO these are grown ass men and a player shouldn't have to "fire his team up" this ain't little league. However, if you are down on a dude because he got tired for playing the whole 2nd half then you need to look around the league. There is a reason guys don't play entire halves.

[Pacersike]

I don't think he is a great leader... That is a whole different discussion. IMO these are grown ass men and a player shouldn't have to "fire his team up" this ain't little league. However, if you are down on a dude because he got tired for playing the whole 2nd half then you need to look around the league. There is a reason guys don't play entire halves.

I'm not down on him because of last night. Last night for me is just a confirmation that we should think twice about paying him the max while trading our picks to get him help. He is no Lebron, far from it.
When Lebron was PG's age, he could play 42 minutes on very good efficiency, not for a couple of times like PG, but multiple times.

Ask the Rockets what a difference it makes to have a guard next to Harden, who is all fired up.
Ask the Thunder players what it feels like playing next to Westbrook.
Ask the Warriors how good they would be without Draymond.

If you propose me to look around the league, I propose you dig into history books and find out how historic figures have motivated grown ass men to rise above themselves to defeat much larger armies.

And they fought for their freedom/lives, not to win some silly ball game. They didn't have millions of dollars on their bank account.
Motivation is exactly how a team can put itself above another. Motivation is exactly why some teams overachieve considering their talent or underachieve. IMO the Pacers have more talent than they are able to show

They want to win games, but other teams want it more. It's not everything (the Celtics do have a very well constructed team), but it's important to fire up teammates if they are not fired up by themselves.

[Pacers_Freak]

I don't think he is a great leader... That is a whole different discussion. IMO these are grown ass men and a player shouldn't have to "fire his team up" this ain't little league. However, if you are down on a dude because he got tired for playing the whole 2nd half then you need to look around the league. There is a reason guys don't play entire halves.

I'm not down on him because of last night. Last night for me is just a confirmation that we should think twice about paying him the max while trading our picks to get him help. He is no Lebron, far from it.
When Lebron was PG's age, he could play 42 minutes on very good efficiency, not for a couple of times like PG, but multiple times.

Ask the Rockets what a difference it makes to have a guard next to Harden, who is all fired up.
Ask the Thunder players what it feels like playing next to Westbrook.
Ask the Warriors how good they would be without Draymond.

If you propose me to look around the league, I propose you dig into history books and find out how historic figures have motivated grown ass men to rise above themselves to defeat much larger armies.

And they fought for their freedom/lives, not to win some silly ball game. They didn't have millions of dollars on their bank account.
Motivation is exactly how a team can put itself above another. Motivation is exactly why some teams overachieve considering their talent or underachieve. IMO the Pacers have more talent than they are able to show

They want to win games, but other teams want it more. It's not everything (the Celtics do have a very well constructed team), but it's important to fire up teammates if they are not fired up by themselves.

Damn you went all the way to fighting wars.... impressive.

[Pacersike]

I don't think he is a great leader... That is a whole different discussion. IMO these are grown ass men and a player shouldn't have to "fire his team up" this ain't little league. However, if you are down on a dude because he got tired for playing the whole 2nd half then you need to look around the league. There is a reason guys don't play entire halves.

I'm not down on him because of last night. Last night for me is just a confirmation that we should think twice about paying him the max while trading our picks to get him help. He is no Lebron, far from it.
When Lebron was PG's age, he could play 42 minutes on very good efficiency, not for a couple of times like PG, but multiple times.

Ask the Rockets what a difference it makes to have a guard next to Harden, who is all fired up.
Ask the Thunder players what it feels like playing next to Westbrook.
Ask the Warriors how good they would be without Draymond.

If you propose me to look around the league, I propose you dig into history books and find out how historic figures have motivated grown ass men to rise above themselves to defeat much larger armies.

And they fought for their freedom/lives, not to win some silly ball game. They didn't have millions of dollars on their bank account.
Motivation is exactly how a team can put itself above another. Motivation is exactly why some teams overachieve considering their talent or underachieve. IMO the Pacers have more talent than they are able to show

They want to win games, but other teams want it more. It's not everything (the Celtics do have a very well constructed team), but it's important to fire up teammates if they are not fired up by themselves.

Damn you went all the way to fighting wars.... impressive.

Ya, if even soldiers, who risk their lives, could use some firing up speeches, I don't see why 30 years old NBA players, making millions of dollars for the next couple of years, couldn't use some. Right now, it has to be forced with team meetings or home crowd expectations. But it is much easier when you have a couple of players or coach who are capable of doing so every game.
But it should come more naturally and depends on the personalities on the team.

Either PG doesn't have enough personality to get his teammates to fight for him or his teammates have too much personality to be listening, or it is a combination of both: some of his teammates don't care enough and Paul's balls aren't big enough to persuade them to care more. It is more than just a bench that sucks when playing. There is a lack of effort every now and then together with a lack of courage/desire to set it right.

[Pacers_Freak]

I'm not down on him because of last night. Last night for me is just a confirmation that we should think twice about paying him the max while trading our picks to get him help. He is no Lebron, far from it.
When Lebron was PG's age, he could play 42 minutes on very good efficiency, not for a couple of times like PG, but multiple times.

Ask the Rockets what a difference it makes to have a guard next to Harden, who is all fired up.
Ask the Thunder players what it feels like playing next to Westbrook.
Ask the Warriors how good they would be without Draymond.

If you propose me to look around the league, I propose you dig into history books and find out how historic figures have motivated grown ass men to rise above themselves to defeat much larger armies.

And they fought for their freedom/lives, not to win some silly ball game. They didn't have millions of dollars on their bank account.
Motivation is exactly how a team can put itself above another. Motivation is exactly why some teams overachieve considering their talent or underachieve. IMO the Pacers have more talent than they are able to show

They want to win games, but other teams want it more. It's not everything (the Celtics do have a very well constructed team), but it's important to fire up teammates if they are not fired up by themselves.

Damn you went all the way to fighting wars.... impressive.

Ya, if even soldiers, who risk their lives, could use some firing up speeches, I don't see why 30 years old NBA players, making millions of dollars for the next couple of years, couldn't use some. Right now, it has to be forced with team meetings or home crowd expectations. But it is much easier when you have a couple of players or coach who are capable of doing so every game.
But it should come more naturally and depends on the personalities on the team.

Either PG doesn't have enough personality to get his teammates to fight for him or his teammates have too much personality to be listening, or it is a combination of both: some of his teammates don't care enough and Paul's balls aren't big enough to persuade them to care more. It is more than just a bench that sucks when playing. There is a lack of effort every now and then together with a lack of courage/desire to set it right.

Man that is a lot of hypothetical BS right there. Not a single damn one of us know what is said or what goes on with the team behind the scenes. You think PG is god awful you are entitled to your opinion. Good day sir.

[Pacersike]

Damn you went all the way to fighting wars.... impressive.

Ya, if even soldiers, who risk their lives, could use some firing up speeches, I don't see why 30 years old NBA players, making millions of dollars for the next couple of years, couldn't use some. Right now, it has to be forced with team meetings or home crowd expectations. But it is much easier when you have a couple of players or coach who are capable of doing so every game.
But it should come more naturally and depends on the personalities on the team.

Either PG doesn't have enough personality to get his teammates to fight for him or his teammates have too much personality to be listening, or it is a combination of both: some of his teammates don't care enough and Paul's balls aren't big enough to persuade them to care more. It is more than just a bench that sucks when playing. There is a lack of effort every now and then together with a lack of courage/desire to set it right.

Man that is a lot of hypothetical BS right there. Not a single damn one of us know what is said or what goes on with the team behind the scenes. You think PG is god awful you are entitled to your opinion. Good day sir.

Here it is evening, the day is already over, but thank you nonetheless

[Gam]

I know you guys don't have the most active board so I was hoping I could get an answer to a question in this thread if you don't mind.

On our board, one of our users proposed the following trade between our two teams:

Pacers out: Jeff Teague (S&T) (UFA this summer)

Bucks out: John Henson, Rashad Vaughn, Thon Maker.

What would you say to that trade?

[Pacers_Freak]

I know you guys don't have the most active board so I was hoping I could get an answer to a question in this thread if you don't mind.

On our board, one of our users proposed the following trade between our two teams:

Pacers out: Jeff Teague (S&T) (UFA this summer)

Bucks out: John Henson, Rashad Vaughn, Thon Maker.

What would you say to that trade?

I would say yuck. You are looking to unload Henson's contract so why would we take it in a sign and trade? I'm not a huge Maker fan so maybe my vision of this is skewed a bit.

[indypride]

I know you guys don't have the most active board so I was hoping I could get an answer to a question in this thread if you don't mind.

On our board, one of our users proposed the following trade between our two teams:

Pacers out: Jeff Teague (S&T) (UFA this summer)

Bucks out: John Henson, Rashad Vaughn, Thon Maker.

What would you say to that trade?

I'd take it.