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Tortious interference, also known as intentional interference with contractual relations, Example: A tort of negligent interference occurs when one party's negligence damages the contractual or business relationship between others.

8305 wrote:

Andre Roberstan wrote:http://www.indianasportscoverage.com/tracking-the-latest-paul-george-trade-rumors/

Aggregates all the rumors. One I hadn't seen mentioned: George's camp is apparently telling every team with trade interest that PG is a rental.

Lakers haven't been contacted re: trade.

I have seen rumors that PG has told the Lakers not give up any assets in a trade because he's coming there next year, Magic wining and dining his parents, etc. Sounds like collusion to me. PG stabbing his team in the back with another team coaching him along the way. Might be time to bring Adam Silver into these discussions.

If the Indiana Pacers organization has any guts at all they will file charges with the league against the Lakers, Paul George and his agent Aaron Mintz. There is no question that this is a case of tampering with a teams contracted player not only to sign that player but to destroy the contracted teams trade value for said player.

Relief to the Pacers in terms of damages should be Cash, Draft picks should be stripped from the Lakers and awarded to the Pacers and Paul George should be fined $5 million and suspended for at least 82 games without pay by the NBA and his Agent should be fined $5 million.

This is worse than the Joe Smith/Minnesota Timberwolves case:

https://www.canishoopus.com/2014/1/31/5364554/david-stern-and-the-minnesota-timberwolves-the-joe-smith-debacle

Smith was the first overall pick in the 1995 draft, the draft in which the Wolves got Kevin Garnett with the fifth pick. After a couple of good but not superstar seasons in Golden State, he was traded to Philadelphia for half a season, then became a free agent just in time for the lockout that killed the first half of the 1998-99 season. After the settlement, he signed with the Wolves for one season at a low dollar value (after he turned down a sizable extension offer from Golden State, which prompted his trade).

As it turns out, Smith had an agreement with the Wolves to sign three one year deals in a row with them in order to establish Bird rights, and then the team would sign him to a lucrative contract over the salary cap. This agreement was discovered after his 2nd year with the club (following the 1999-2000 season) when a lawsuit between his agent and his agent's former partner led to the discovery of incriminating documents about Smith and the Wolves.

Stern came down hard. It seems clear that he chose to make an example out of the Wolves and try to put an end to teams trying to circumvent the salary cap. The Wolves were penalized by having their next five first round picks taken away, (though one was later returned), and then GM Kevin McHale and owner Glen Taylor were suspended for a year. The club was also fined $3.5M. Smith had his previous contracts with the Wolves voided, which meant that Bird rights were not forthcoming. He wound up signing with the Pistons for a year before returning to the Wolves on a long term contract.

But as we know the NBA is corrupt and riddled with Fraud such as the Fake Lottery that awards top teams with players from their home towns, Derrick Rose, Chicago, LBJ, Cleveland, the infamous 1985 draft lottery with the turned corner on the envelope. Now they don't bother with that sort of fakery they just draw numbers in private and then award picks to who ever they choose.

We must face facts now that the NBA is rigged and a farce, it is set up to build super teams in the large markets and throw crumbs to the small markets.

This is not a tort. And, even if it were, a franchise is not going to sue another franchise under a tort claim. If anything, this is a breach of contract situation. But, given league precedent regarding more obvious instances of tampering, the most that the Lakers would likely get is a warning. The only real serious tampering penalty was self-inflicted by the Miami Heat when they, in 1995, actually negotiated a contract with Riley while he was employed with the Knicks. I don't see those facts here. Perhaps they may come to light, but given the facts as they currently exist, the Lakers would likely only get fined.

The lakers and the Agent Mintz have engaged in illegal tampering that has impeded the ability of the Pacers to exercise their rights and realize the value of the contract that they have with their player who is under contract. I believe that the Player PG is complicit in this illegal act. All should be punished severely!

I realize that this seems bad and unfair from our point of view. Pacers fans were hoping to either keep him or trade him off for a good haul of assets. One leak about this and now it seems like neither are possible.

I just don't see the NBA or a team being able to do much about this type of thing. We have heard whispers about where players want to go and who they want to play with before. Very rarely is anything done about it, nothing ever litigated. I don't think there is a huge chance the Indiana Pacers can be the team that changes that. Call me cynical.

The Joe Smith saga had a paper trail. People learned their lesson. Obviously, agents represent players from many teams. They have conversations with owners about the players on their team. If they also talk about another player...there's nothing to be done about that. Unless someone records it or puts something in writing. It's impossible to prove.

I don't know what the typical rules are for tampering when trades are on the table. In some cases a team may ask about whether an extension can be worked. Does that get cleared through the team that currently employs the player? I don't know. This all seems to be out in the media.

It sucks, but realistically he's going to be a FA and this is his chance to sign wherever he wants. I don't see why he cares about playing for the Lakers given he was a Clippers fan but wherever he wants to go is up to him. It just sucks that he's completely tanking his trade value seemingly on purpose. I guess it's more honest to the other teams? I mean, if he wants to sign in LA, go ahead but why not just say you want to explore your options so that the Pacers can get something out of you via trade. Not wanting to play here anymore is different than only wanting to play in one other place. If you don't want the Lakers to gut the team the agent can tell them that behind the scenes. This really only makes sense if you want to make sure you play in LA and that they trade for you so you can get all the money possible via bird rights.

I don't really mind. Signing him to the max contract would have been a mistake for us, he'll likely try harder somewhere else. This will kick us off the treadmill anyway. It'll be hilarious if the new Lakers management sign Dion Waiters this offseason and tie up all their cap space. Dion has an agent too you guys.

I look at it as payback time for a Pacers GM throwing a teammate under the bus, trading away a mentor/friend for scrubs, trading away a friend without consulting, saying stuff like "he don't make decisions around here" and going towards an important trade deadline without consulting your star player.

When you think about, Larry Bird cared very little how his star player would feel about one of his moves.
But this isn't 1986. Players have more feelings and more opinions now. They want to feel a bit like a queen.

Pacersike wrote:I look at it as payback time for a Pacers GM throwing a teammate under the bus, trading away a mentor/friend for scrubs, trading away a friend without consulting, saying stuff like "he don't make decisions around here" and going towards an important trade deadline without consulting your star player.

When you think about, Larry Bird cared very little how his star player would feel about one of his moves.
But this isn't 1986. Players have more feelings and more opinions now. They want to feel a bit like a queen.

You have to wonder if there isn't something to this theory. One of the problems with legendary people in the position of GM is they are likely to have egos just as big as their players. And, I think we would have to admit that the Pacers didn't treat Danny Granger very well. The guy was instrumental in bringing both David West and Paul George to the team. He and his agent could have easily felt he was at least entitled finish out his contract in Indy.

That said I can see the theory behind multiple parties colluding to make PG's contract far less valuable than it should be right now. Not sure what the restitution would be or if it makes long term business sense to file a complaint. This type thing is something the NBA needs to consider. Unabated I could see a day where there are maybe 7 viable franchises where todays unrestricted free agents will congregate and 25 teams serving as a glorified developmental league.

easier to fault the agent than the Lakers. Magic has slipped a few times but he was probably told by someone to keep quiet. whether that was a formal warning from the league, I wouldn't know. I doubt it.

Who knows the extent of agent Laker conversations. Lots of smoke though when, it would appear the agent is executing a "to do list" that couldn't be more beneficial to the Lakers if they authored it.

Pacersike wrote:I look at it as payback time for a Pacers GM throwing a teammate under the bus, trading away a mentor/friend for scrubs, trading away a friend without consulting, saying stuff like "he don't make decisions around here" and going towards an important trade deadline without consulting your star player.

When you think about, Larry Bird cared very little how his star player would feel about one of his moves.
But this isn't 1986. Players have more feelings and more opinions now. They want to feel a bit like a queen.

I like to think I am not too prone to overreaction, but this hits pretty close to how I feel. Take our 2013 conference finals team that took the LBJ Heat to seven games. That was a superteam, and you don't see many playoff series against super teams go to seven games.

We had an unceremonious ending with just about every player on that team because Bird does things his way and doesn't care who he ticks off in the process. Granger, Stephenson, Hibbert, West. You all know the story. George Hill was the least worrisome because at least he was traded for a similar quality player, but Bird still made him a scapegoat and shipped him off for not a clear upgrade. Mahinmi let walk for nothing even though he wanted to be here. Very controversial decision to let Vogel go.

Well, look who got ticked off. The best Pacer we have seen in a long time. It seems like a jerk move for him to purposely tank his trade value a full year before he could leave to go anywhere. But where might he have learned such cold and ruthless tactics from? He witnessed it for years right here first hand.

basketballwacko2 wrote:The lakers and the Agent Mintz have engaged in illegal tampering that has impeded the ability of the Pacers to exercise their rights and realize the value of the contract that they have with their player who is under contract. I believe that the Player PG is complicit in this illegal act. All should be punished severely!

Please stop these threads, actually embarrassing Pacer nation with your crying.

tocooks101 wrote:

basketballwacko2 wrote:The lakers and the Agent Mintz have engaged in illegal tampering that has impeded the ability of the Pacers to exercise their rights and realize the value of the contract that they have with their player who is under contract. I believe that the Player PG is complicit in this illegal act. All should be punished severely!

Please stop these threads, actually embarrassing Pacer nation with your crying.

I really don't give a damn what you think.

8305 wrote:You have to wonder if there isn't something to this theory. One of the problems with legendary people in the position of GM is they are likely to have egos just as big as their players. And, I think we would have to admit that the Pacers didn't treat Danny Granger very well. The guy was instrumental in bringing both David West and Paul George to the team. He and his agent could have easily felt he was at least entitled finish out his contract in Indy.

If George hadn't mentioned the Lakers and just said that he isn't going to re-sign here, wouldn't we all think first of the Boston Celtics as the team that has the pieces to get George and remain a contender? It might have been another good reason for George to leak.
Going to the Celtics and try to make them great again is the last thing on someone's mind if the boss you started to dislike is a Celtics legend. Their rival team, no matter how much they suck right now, that would be a good place to go to.

boomershadow wrote:Well, look who got ticked off. The best Pacer we have seen in a long time. It seems like a jerk move for him to purposely tank his trade value a full year before he could leave to go anywhere. But where might he have learned such cold and ruthless tactics from? He witnessed it for years right here first hand.

Ya, that is why I believe both guys share responsibilities of what is happening right now.
Bird should have consulted George more and should have kept the good guys. Bird wanted to play small and cared little to nothing about close friendships or his star player not willing to play the 4.

George on the other hand should have complained less in the media and should have told Bird face to face he is only staying if he gets to say something too. Hill for Teague was a very lateral move, but Hill was a close friend.
Granger's main value was that he was a lockerroom leader, tough guy. Paul isn't a tough guy, so it was a loss for the Pacers.

That being said, Larry Bird already won a ring at 24 years old. With everything George has said and done this season, looking at how he refuses to play physical, how much he misses players like West, Granger, Hill, he has more reasons than Bird to change his attitude and to grow up mentally.

In a way, I wished there more cold blooded players like Bird in this generation, but reality is that most are softer now and it's the GM's job to adapt to it and try to be softer, even though I wish it was different and players wouldn't feel so emotionally hurt every time something happens they don't like. Granger's game had very much declined, it wasn't working out good enough with Hill and Vogel, Hibbert's sulking behavior was not worthy of a good team player, Bird had every right to make moves to try to make the team better and coaches are the ones who have to decide which player plays which position, not the players. Refusing to play the 4 again after 1 game says a lot about the player George. He wasn't going to lead his team back to any finals.

I just wished we could have gotten the #2 or #3 in exchange for him, so that next season wouldn't feel so bad when the Pacers draft second half lottery again. That's the second time in 3 years time they miss out on a great opportunity to draft high. They could have had Porzingis (not Towns, Pacers aren't that lucky) or Tatum, Ball, Jackson knowing that the veterans in a George trade or George being healthy again would keep them out of the cellar of the NBA and the high pick was just a one time opportunity.
That's what bothers me the most, not the loss of George.