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Auch. Bogdanovic is going to get exposed defensively and we have already few other options to play the 3.
Maybe move Thad to the 3 and start Sabonis?

I've added the poll to see how many secretly wish the Pacers get a top 5-10 pick next draft. It doesn't have to be active tanking, just what you hope will happen.

A real bummer. I was hoping to see GR3 push Bojan for the starting job. Bojan's defense worries me a bit, but honestly i don't see the backup SF really making such an impact in the win column that it becomes the difference between tanking and not.

I do think it means we will see more Lance at the 3 though.

boomershadow wrote:A real bummer. I was hoping to see GR3 push Bojan for the starting job. Bojan's defense worries me a bit, but honestly i don't see the backup SF really making such an impact in the win column that it becomes the difference between tanking and not.

I do think it means we will see more Lance at the 3 though.

Considering who we had at the small forward position and who we have right now, I think many of us were hoping our backup SF would have become our starting SF. The drop off from PG to Bojan is huge, the last thing the Pacers need is another drop off with their backup SF.

The Pacers can make the playoffs, but without a go-to player like George (George had very good clutch final minute stats and was terrible in the final 20 seconds, so everything before the last 20 seconnds he was pretty great at) a couple of setbacks like these is all it takes for the Pacers to miss the playoffs. That's why I'm guessing that the Pacers crew, who where already thinking the Pacers would miss the playoffs, wouldn't be too upset about this, because it kind of helps the tank in a passive way. Hence my question.

So far, my expectations were met. Very little reaction here because in a way this unfortunate event could have the advantage that the Pacers pick higher in june.

http://www.indianasportscoverage.com/t-j-leaf-is-practicing-at-small-forward-in-glenn-robinson-iiis-absence/

O boy, I'm going to miss PG playing defense with half effort and 3 making defensive mistakes again and again. This is a lot worse.

Brings me to my 1 point of criticism about our roster. I would have liked to see us adding a veteran wing who has been active in the NBA the last few years and that was before 3 went down. Leaf, Stephenson, Poythress, Wilkins, I think I much rather have Thad Young defending small forwards. Good thing we kept him and hopefully Sabonis plays well enough for our coach to consider the move.

I do agree we need another small forward on the roster, not anyone fancy, just a guy that could be an average third stringer and not muck things up too badly if he needed to fill in.

Leaf? I don't know. If he can shoot the ball and manage not to suck too badly at guarding opposing backup SFs, it's worth a shot I guess. Could it be much worse than the Chase Budinger experience?

My bad. The previous Leaf link just came from a Pacer fan with little credibility.

Scott Agness is saying Damien Wilkins is going to take his place. Got to see him play in the NBA, before I can judge him.
Wednesday we will know a lot more. Bucks have an abundance of great small forwards: Antakenumpo, Middleton, Parker.

Regarding the poll question, I don't really think GR3's injury is the deciding factor of whether to tank or not.

Pacers.com also says Leaf has been practising a little at SF, but yes apparently it will be old man Wilkins who will be the main replacement.

http://www.nba.com/pacers/news/day-later-robinson-iii-feeling-grateful

The game minutes that would have gone to Robinson likely will be spread among a few players. T.J. Leaf, the Pacers' first-round draft pick, ran with the second unit for much of Saturday's practice, moving from power forward to small forward. That adjustment will require even more on-the-job-training for the 20-year-old rookie.

"I'm more comfortable as a four, but once I learn the offense I'll play whatever position coach puts me at," Leaf said.

"I've been progressing. At the beginning it was learning the plays, learning the speed. I've gotten more comfortable."

"T.J. looks great, man," Myles Turner said. "The first day he came out real strong, had all the energy, all the adrenaline. The second day was a little fast for him as we started going up and down a little more, but that's how it is for any rookie. My first couple of practices were the same way. But he's adjusted better than anybody I've seen. He's out there doing his role, he's competing, he's working hard, he's getting where he fits in, he's moving the ball well … he looks good."

McMillan said Lance Stephenson, who can back up both guard positions and small forward, also could get minutes in Robinson's place. Robinson's injury also could enhance the odds of veteran free agent Damien Wilkins earning a roster spot.

"This is what we were looking to bring him on board for – an emergency," McMillan said. "He's a veteran who can provide leadership in the locker room, but if we need him to play a few minutes in a few games he should be able to do that. We'll certainly take a look at him."

The rotation:

http://www.nba.com/pacers/news/montieth-training-camp-notebook-october2

McMillan has stayed with the anticipated starting lineup of Darren Collison, Victor Oladipo, Bojan Bogdanovic, Thad Young and Myles Turner throughout camp. He said Monday his second unit will consist of point guard Cory Joseph, shooting guard Lance Stephenson, forward T.J. Leaf and center Domantas Sabonis. Damien Wilkins will fill in for Robinson, although Stephenson, Leaf and Alex Poythress could get minutes there as well.

Domas not playing PF is a bit surprising to me, but I suppose we have a glut there. Leaf beating out veteran Al Jeff for a rotation spot does surprise me, not because I'm a big fan of Al but more because I was expecting Leaf to spend time with the Ants. So that's a fairly pleasant surprise. It seems we're really committed to a spread-style offense.

We are really thin at the wing, as GR3's injury shows. Though I suspect once the real games start, Lance and Dipo will just up their minutes to compensate. If we had more capable wings though, I'd think Bojan would get shifted to PF a bit more. But then again, we have a glut at that position.

We will know soon enough if it is because Leaf has been a pleasant surprise or Jefferson declined some more.
Maybe Sabonis best position is center now.

Either way, all our starters and backups can hit threes now. Not many teams have that, especially not center AND backup center.
If Sabonis develops a 3 point shot, it's going to add another dimension to basketball. Rim protectors will have no choice but to step out and defend the 3 point line and the driving guard (prime Monta Ellis type) will thrive again.

I'm glad my Pacers are building like this, because I believe it is the future of basketball. Warriors made their move with a smallball shooting group of players. Many teams followed. The best countermove is getting big men who can shoot it from anywhere on the court and still be able to defend the rim(Turner), the post (Sabonis) with them. Not saying our players are going to beat the Warriors, but I find it the right way to try to beat them.

winter_mute_13 wrote:The rotation:

http://www.nba.com/pacers/news/montieth-training-camp-notebook-october2

McMillan has stayed with the anticipated starting lineup of Darren Collison, Victor Oladipo, Bojan Bogdanovic, Thad Young and Myles Turner throughout camp. He said Monday his second unit will consist of point guard Cory Joseph, shooting guard Lance Stephenson, forward T.J. Leaf and center Domantas Sabonis. Damien Wilkins will fill in for Robinson, although Stephenson, Leaf and Alex Poythress could get minutes there as well.

Domas not playing PF is a bit surprising to me, but I suppose we have a glut there. Leaf beating out veteran Al Jeff for a rotation spot does surprise me, not because I'm a big fan of Al but more because I was expecting Leaf to spend time with the Ants. So that's a fairly pleasant surprise. It seems we're really committed to a spread-style offense.

We are really thin at the wing, as GR3's injury shows. Though I suspect once the real games start, Lance and Dipo will just up their minutes to compensate. If we had more capable wings though, I'd think Bojan would get shifted to PF a bit more. But then again, we have a glut at that position.

It really surprises me after watching Leaf last night. Has a long way to go athletically on the D end.

Hope GRIII comes back quicker than the diagnosis.

Pacers_Freak wrote:It really surprises me after watching Leaf last night. Has a long way to go athletically on the D end.

The way big Al played last night, it looked like he had run a very very long way before he entered the game.
Lighter or not, Jefferson has alwas been a bad fit for the fast style they are trying to play and being a center, he might be equally bad as Leaf defensively. His rim protection is awful, he can't step out. Sabonis as center gives us better defense and much more movement.

Leaf, though not fysically ready, understands the game a lot better than other athletic Pacer freaks when they were a rookie or even when they were a sophomore. I'm in for giving him backup minutes for the entire preseason. I think he is a quick learner.
Jefferson as emergency center only.

Wilkins looked really good btw. It makes sense now why they haven't added another veteran wing. He belongs in the NBA.

Pacersike wrote:

Pacers_Freak wrote:It really surprises me after watching Leaf last night. Has a long way to go athletically on the D end.

The way big Al played last night, it looked like he had run a very very long way before he entered the game.
Lighter or not, Jefferson has alwas been a bad fit for the fast style they are trying to play and being a center, he might be equally bad as Leaf defensively. His rim protection is awful, he can't step out. Sabonis as center gives us better defense and much more movement.

Leaf, though not fysically ready, understands the game a lot better than other athletic Pacer freaks when they were a rookie or even when they were a sophomore. I'm in for giving him backup minutes for the entire preseason. I think he is a quick learner.
Jefferson as emergency center only.

Wilkins looked really good btw. It makes sense now why they haven't added another veteran wing. He belongs in the NBA.

I don't disagree on Al's D decencies, but Teletovic drove by Leaf like he was standing still. That's not good. I understand the game.... doesn't mean I should be out there. Leaf is young and I think he will be fine. At least Al will bring some offense.

Pacers_Freak wrote:

Pacersike wrote:

Pacers_Freak wrote:It really surprises me after watching Leaf last night. Has a long way to go athletically on the D end.

The way big Al played last night, it looked like he had run a very very long way before he entered the game.
Lighter or not, Jefferson has alwas been a bad fit for the fast style they are trying to play and being a center, he might be equally bad as Leaf defensively. His rim protection is awful, he can't step out. Sabonis as center gives us better defense and much more movement.

Leaf, though not fysically ready, understands the game a lot better than other athletic Pacer freaks when they were a rookie or even when they were a sophomore. I'm in for giving him backup minutes for the entire preseason. I think he is a quick learner.
Jefferson as emergency center only.

Wilkins looked really good btw. It makes sense now why they haven't added another veteran wing. He belongs in the NBA.

I don't disagree on Al's D decencies, but Teletovic drove by Leaf like he was standing still. That's not good. I understand the game.... doesn't mean I should be out there. Leaf is young and I think he will be fine. At least Al will bring some offense.

The athletic Pacer freaks I mean are Born Ready and 3. Sorry for the confusion. I forgot it is your nickname as well.
When Lance and Glenn were Leaf's age, they were much more ready athletically than Leaf now. One of the reasons why they barely played in their rookie and sophomore years, was because of the way they read the game. Leaf IMO understands the game very well for a man/boy of his age. You said Leaf is athletically behind. I agree while adding his BBIQ is already pretty good. BBIQ is just as important as having an NBA body.

I saw that. I think it was a rookie mistake, being caught by surprise. Jefferson got exposed too, with the difference that Jefferson knows how the game is played. He got exposed because he simply lacks the footspeed and jumping ability to not get exposed.
I value defense from a center as more important than defense from other positions. 5s can protect the rim. 4s 3s 2s 1s not with a few exceptions. Sabonis is no Myles Turner but at least he can jump high enough to contest shots a little bit. Sabonis is a better defender, fits the running, shooting style the Pacers want to play. If that means Leaf will get exposed defensively (as opposed to Jefferson), I'll take it. Leaf had a very polished offensive game in college. Giving him the opportunity now to allow him to make mistakes, can only benefit his game. And he seems like a smart dude. I don't think he gonna need 2 years to be ready to play like Lance and 3 needed.

I thought Jefferson was going to better than last year and it is just 1 game, but it looked like everything (not just defense) was going too fast for him last night. Jefferson has always been a ballhog. I was surprised too that Leaf got that spot, but when I think about it and watched the game last night, it doesn't surprise me anymore. Jefferson doesn't fit. Leaf fits. Jefferson is a huge liability defensively, Leaf also. Leaf can run, Leaf can hit threes, Jefferson can not. When everything else fails in our offense, that's when Jefferson can be useful for this team. That and teaching our young centers his footwork. Sabonis playing center opened my eyes. Remember Jefferson was also benched for Seraphin last season. Emergency center and mentor should be his role now.

Pacersike wrote:

Pacers_Freak wrote:

Pacersike wrote:The way big Al played last night, it looked like he had run a very very long way before he entered the game.
Lighter or not, Jefferson has alwas been a bad fit for the fast style they are trying to play and being a center, he might be equally bad as Leaf defensively. His rim protection is awful, he can't step out. Sabonis as center gives us better defense and much more movement.

Leaf, though not fysically ready, understands the game a lot better than other athletic Pacer freaks when they were a rookie or even when they were a sophomore. I'm in for giving him backup minutes for the entire preseason. I think he is a quick learner.
Jefferson as emergency center only.

Wilkins looked really good btw. It makes sense now why they haven't added another veteran wing. He belongs in the NBA.

I don't disagree on Al's D decencies, but Teletovic drove by Leaf like he was standing still. That's not good. I understand the game.... doesn't mean I should be out there. Leaf is young and I think he will be fine. At least Al will bring some offense.

The athletic Pacer freaks I mean are Born Ready and 3. Sorry for the confusion. I forgot it is your nickname as well.
When Lance and Glenn were Leaf's age, they were much more ready athletically than Leaf now. One of the reasons why they barely played in their rookie and sophomore years, was because of the way they read the game. Leaf IMO understands the game very well for a man/boy of his age. You said Leaf is athletically behind. I agree while adding his BBIQ is already pretty good. BBIQ is just as important as having an NBA body.

I saw that. I think it was a rookie mistake, being caught by surprise. Jefferson got exposed too, with the difference that Jefferson knows how the game is played. He got exposed because he simply lacks the footspeed and jumping ability to not get exposed.
I value defense from a center as more important than defense from other positions. 5s can protect the rim. 4s 3s 2s 1s not with a few exceptions. Sabonis is no Myles Turner but at least he can jump high enough to contest shots a little bit. Sabonis is a better defender, fits the running, shooting style the Pacers want to play. If that means Leaf will get exposed defensively (as opposed to Jefferson), I'll take it. Leaf had a very polished offensive game in college. Giving him the opportunity now to allow him to make mistakes, can only benefit his game. And he seems like a smart dude. I don't think he gonna need 2 years to be ready to play like Lance and 3 needed.

I thought Jefferson was going to better than last year and it is just 1 game, but it looked like everything (not just defense) was going too fast for him last night. Jefferson has always been a ballhog. I was surprised too that Leaf got that spot, but when I think about it and watched the game last night, it doesn't surprise me anymore. Jefferson doesn't fit. Leaf fits. Jefferson is a huge liability defensively, Leaf also. Leaf can run, Leaf can hit threes, Jefferson can not. When everything else fails in our offense, that's when Jefferson can be useful for this team. That and teaching our young centers his footwork. Sabonis playing center opened my eyes. Remember Jefferson was also benched for Seraphin last season. Emergency center and mentor should be his role now.

I'm not a huge advocate for Big Al. Just think he's the best option. We'll agree to disagree on Leaf. Think he needs to spend this season focusing on athletic development and getting some garbage time with the occasional trip to Ft. Wayne to get a lot of game action. And this isn't based off the other night. I thought that should have been the plan for him when he was drafted. He's just not physically an NBA player right now. Still high on his future, but we got to remember he is only 20.

Pacers_Freak wrote:I'm not a huge advocate for Big Al. Just think he's the best option. We'll agree to disagree on Leaf. Think he needs to spend this season focusing on athletic development and getting some garbage time with the occasional trip to Ft. Wayne to get a lot of game action. And this isn't based off the other night. I thought that should have been the plan for him when he was drafted. He's just not physically an NBA player right now. Still high on his future, but we got to remember he is only 20.

And agree to disagree on Jefferson. I didn't expect Leaf to crack the rotation because I remember he is only 20 years old and has long ways to go. I just know that the Pacers are trying to be a running team, look faster this year compared with last year, that losing weight doesn't make a 32 years old player considerably faster (only stamina) and that Al Jefferson already lost his backup job to Seraphin last year. Seraphin who isn't in the NBA anymore.

TJ Leaf scored 2 baskets the other night. One post up against the heavier Wilson I believe and 1 where he outruns our opponent and has a rather easy basket. The last basket is exactly what the Pacers are trying to do. The Pacers need to outrun their opponents because they lack size. TJ Leaf is a great runner, Jefferson is terrible. To get good results, everybody on the Pacers has to run.
If 1 player of our team slows down the pace, our opponent gets what they want.

When Anigbogu can play, he has a decent chance to crack the rotation and to push Leaf out. Anigbogu has the body and his defense is already pretty good. Both Leaf and Ike are projects but the fit is just so much better than what Jefferson can add to this team.
Big Al's true value is in the lockerroom and St Vincent Center. Him losing weight had me optimistic for some time, but the fact the Pacers are really going to be a fast pace team this season hadn't crossed my mind yet. My mistake. He was a bad fit last season, now he looked like a dinosaur between gazelles.

Reports about training camp were that the third unit really struggled defensively. When your defensive anchor is Jefferson and if you look at how fast our starters and backups play, it all makes sense now. Some players still had to work on their conditioning.
If you connect the dots again, Leaf getting minutes before Jefferson, it is possible that they were talking about big Al. Who else could they be talking about when you see them all running like that?

Normally, I wouldn't want a rookie to get minutes before a decent veteran player, but Leaf has a polished offensive game, is a smart kid and Jefferson is an awful fit. Having the defense of Sabonis as center as opposed to that of Jefferson, is a bonus and helps to shift my balance towards Leaf.

Potentially 4 months now after surgery.

This is going to cause us some issues.