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The catch is on defense, where Turner averages 2.8 blocks and Sabonis just 0.9.

Although McMillan made it a point to play the two together in each game before Turner's injury, and will do so again when Turner returns, he has no interest in starting them together. He doesn't consider either of them capable of defending "fours" on the perimeter well and doesn't consider Thad Young to be well-suited to move to the "three" position.

"We've had success with our starting group … pump the brakes is what I would say," McMillan said Thursday. "(We'll play Turner and Sabonis together) when that opportunity presents itself with our rotation and we're comfortable with that rotation. You need balance between the first and second rotation. We feel we have the proper balance."

The advanced analytics support McMillan. Turner and Sabonis have played together for 174 minutes this season, over 29 games. The Pacers' offensive rating is virtually the same when they are on the court at the same time, but their defense drops off fairly significantly, from 105.9 to 108 – the number of points allowed over 100 possessions.

Mark Montieth
http://www.nba.com/pacers/news/sabonis-and-turner-180125


The article goes on to speculate that the Turner/Sabonis duo might be still be the future of the Pacers starting lineup, even if it isn't right for the present. Do you agree? Is it inevitable that Turner and Sabonis start together? I didn't watch Domas in OKC much to watch him attempting to guard 4s. Anyone know how that went? Is this combo so inevitable that they should just try it out now, despite their reluctance?

if the coaches are satisfied based upon practice that Thad is not suited to move to 3, he's our best starting 4 for now. this is a long term concern though. there are 96 minutes at 4 and 5 and we'd like Turner and Sabonis to each get at least 32 and if neither is the starting 4 then whoever is gets the other 32 (okay I'm ignoring backup 4's, but that's just a simplifying assumption) which means that they need to cover the other 16 minutes at the 4. I hope one of them can learn to not be a liability there.

I'm reminded of Vogel who never matched down and felt he could pressure the opponent to match up. neither Turner nor Sabonis can do what Thad does, but does that mean they can't play together? I always come back to the Tom Moore football philosophy of putting the best players on the field and changing the scheme to maximize their skills. with Thad we play a 2-2-1. With Turner and Sabonis playing together I'd try a 1-2-2.

Pretty much everyone is aware that we have the "good problem" of 3 starter quality players for 2 positions. For the sake of continuity and chemistry (and don't fix what ain't broken), Thad is going to finish this season as the starter, barring injury or a huge slump. I look forward to Myles and Sabonis putting in the work in the off-season to become better defenders, which I think they both could do by training at the gym Oladipo went to last summer and just getting faster. Domas is an intelligent player and Myles has tremendous height and length and elite shot blocking skills already. If they put in the work to improve on the defensive side by next season, they'll be starting together.

It looks like an inevitable meeting with Thad is imminent. One where McMillan sits him down and says "listen, you've done everything we've asked and you're a great guy to coach - but you're going to be coming off the bench next year, and if you're not comfortable with that, we'll have no hard feelings if you opt out and seek a starting job." But fans and media are looking at the team with Sabonis starting and thinking "something has to give." So Nate is doing the savvy coach's job and putting a stop to that talk for now.

Facepalm at the part where Myles Turner said something about him hanging around at the perimeter feeding the ball to Domas in the post.

While Myles Turner having a smooth shooting stroke with 3pt range is definitely a boon, he really needs to develop beyond that. He needs to improve his footwork underneath the basket, and also his court awareness. Too often I noticed him just looking at the ball when it goes up, and then his opponent sneak in and boxing HIM out for the offensive rebound. Imagine if Hakeem Olajuwon could teach Myles Turner some of that dream shake, he's going to be an absolute beast. Hakeem Olajuwon-lite but with a 3pt shot, just imagine.

As for the problem of having 3 starters for 2 positions, it's really a problem for Nate to solve. He didn't like Thad at 3, but that was last year. This year's team is very different, why not give it a try? Besides, all 3 of them seem to be very professional about the situation, that alone should really give Nate a lot of leeway to experiment, without having to worry about any of them sulking or regressing.

Nate has a point about preserving the strength of the bench. Still, even if he did start Myles-Domas-Thad, he can always stagger the minutes so that one of them gets to rest early, depending on match-up, and then ensuring that 2 out of 3 of them are always on the court. That keeps all 3 of them fresh, and when the situation calls for it put all three of them back in. I can understand Nate's reluctance to do that if the Pacers also had a great SF, as doing that would mean squeezing that player out of the starting lineup. But the team has Bogie at SF right now, so whatever perceived shortcomings Thad has at playing SF, it's not as if Bogie is that much of a better player at SF over Thad.

I think if the team can acquire a good SF who doesn't mind being swapped in and out of the starting lineup, a lineup of Myles-Domas-Thad-Mr.SF for three starting positions is workable, just start the 3 best combination each game according to who the opponent is. Besides, someone else misses games due to injuries or whatnot, so all the more reason that looking at the problem as 4 starters for 3 positions rather than 3 starters for 2 positions isn't going to be much of a problem in the end

we win when Bogie scores 15. he's a bigger part of our success than anyone predicted.

if it ain't broke, don't fix it.

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pizza guy wrote:It looks like an inevitable meeting with Thad is imminent. One where McMillan sits him down and says "listen, you've done everything we've asked and you're a great guy to coach - but you're going to be coming off the bench next year, and if you're not comfortable with that, we'll have no hard feelings if you opt out and seek a starting job." But fans and media are looking at the team with Sabonis starting and thinking "something has to give." So Nate is doing the savvy coach's job and putting a stop to that talk for now.

McMillan won't have to have that meeting. Thad will opt out this summer.

Their skillsets will really need to develop because the matchup problems starting both of them provides outweighs the current upside for this season.

The measuring stick is going to be the Pelicans for head-to-head and the Warriors' small lineups. As it stands we'd be torn apart by both unless Myles gain physicality, and Domas gains whistle immunity.

pacers70 wrote:

pizza guy wrote:It looks like an inevitable meeting with Thad is imminent. One where McMillan sits him down and says "listen, you've done everything we've asked and you're a great guy to coach - but .

McMillan won't have to have that meeting. Thad will opt out this summer.

the meeting may be Pritchard and McMillan. I'm not at all sure Leaf will be ready for the number of minutes he'd need to play if Thad walks. but a lot may depend upon playoff results. if we can't win a series with Thad, moving on will make more sense.

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Wizop wrote:we win when Bogie scores 15. he's a bigger part of our success than anyone predicted.

if it ain't broke, don't fix it.

Sent from my phone.

Bojan is shooting less than 0.300 from downtown in these last 2 months. If 3 were healthy I would have fixed that already

Pacers prefer playoffs and team loyalty over a chance to be a bit better in the not so near future.

I understand that now, but players get older, smarter and bigger, not faster. Usually they get slower from adding muscle.

If Nate thinks Sabonis can not start at the 4 now, while starting him all these games at the 5 with good results, it isn't likely he will change his mind in the future.

I know they only have to play 8 minutes together, but only 1 of them can start and both deserve to start. IMO Turner is also struggling because he is feeling the heat of Domas in his back.

The Pacers will have a very hard time finding a replacement for Thad if he opts out and gets a new big contract. If we solve that by trading for someone like Harkless and later find out that Sabonis and Turner can't start together, we would have missed opportunities to get a better smallball 4.

And of course, Thad is one of few who have not missed a single game this season.

Right now they are both getting minutes and that’s the important thing. Thad is a better fit with either Turner or Sabonis than Turner or Sabonis are with each other. The issue is complicated by 1st round pick TJ Leaf. It’s important for him to get some run too and the only position where that can happen is the 4.

Pacers have always been good at developing young players while trying to be competitive. You can argue that being competitive and making guys earn their playing time is a key part of the process. I’ve got no problem with the process this year. But as time moves on Turner and Subonas have to develop to where they can be effective together or the Pacers have to assemble enough talent at the other positions to justify limited minutes for either Turner or Sabonis. Otherwise logic would dictate a trade.

wouldn't it work against the Cavs with Thompson starting? Thad could guard LeBron at the 3, either Sabonis or Turner can guard Thompson, and no one is great against Love anyway.

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It seems like Nate prefers to have 3 guards on the floor over some kind of Myles-Domas-Thad combo.

I notice that out of Vic-DC-Lance-CoJo group, some combination of 3 out of 4 of them is on the floor quite often.

In other words, Pacers already have someone playing out of position at SF quite frequently, just that Nate prefers that someone to be one of the guards rather than Thad.

Not saying that I am doubting Nate's choice as the coach, just that the Myles-Domas-Thad combo definitely deserves some experimentation, I feel

Topofthekey wrote:It seems like Nate prefers to have 3 guards on the floor over some kind of Myles-Domas-Thad combo.

I notice that out of Vic-DC-Lance-CoJo group, some combination of 3 out of 4 of them is on the floor quite often.

In other words, Pacers already have someone playing out of position at SF quite frequently, just that Nate prefers that someone to be one of the guards rather than Thad.

Not saying that I am doubting Nate's choice as the coach, just that the Myles-Domas-Thad combo definitely deserves some experimentation, I feel

we play small ball but haven't tried going big.

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Have Myles and Domas started together? No. They were on the court together couple minutes per game this season. Domas was always a PF. Suddenly, he is a C???
We can all admit, that Domas has an exceptional bball iq. I have no doubt, that Myles - Domas combo will work out just fine.
Domas might have problems guarding stretch 4s on the perimeter? I see this situation differently. Stretch 4s will have problem not to pee, seeing Domas around.
This season I saw Domas chasing leagues best PGs, SGs, SFs, PFs and Cs while having enough speed to go and grab defensive board.
All that bs about Myles and Domas not able coexist together - that's just complete bs.
They complement each other perfectly, and Thad could play SF, while Bogie torch opponents from the bench.
If Nate insists, that Myles and Domas can't start together (for whatever reason), Nate has to go.

is Mac really saying they can't play together at all or just that the team is best with Thad at the 4?

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Wizop wrote:we win when Bogie scores 15. he's a bigger part of our success than anyone predicted.

if it ain't broke, don't fix it.

Sent from my phone.

I think the Pacers need a better small forward. Bogie is a backup sf in my opinion. The team needs a guy that will produce day in and day out and not just be a streaky 3 point shooter. Personally I don't think GRIII is it. Both of them look like good bench players. SF needs to be able to shoot, defend and provide a scoring option.

For those who talk about starting and playing Thad Young at sf, he's never played sf in his pro career. I expect he's gonna opt out of his contract to get a longer term deal. I don't know if I want to resign him, not that he's crap or anything but he is under sized, not a big rebounder and or shot blocker.

I think Sabonis and Turner will eventually play as starters with Sabonis as the center on offense and PF on D, while Turner plays center on Defense and PF offense.

Wizop wrote:

pacers70 wrote:

pizza guy wrote:It looks like an inevitable meeting with Thad is imminent. One where McMillan sits him down and says "listen, you've done everything we've asked and you're a great guy to coach - but .

McMillan won't have to have that meeting. Thad will opt out this summer.

the meeting may be Pritchard and McMillan. I'm not at all sure Leaf will be ready for the number of minutes he'd need to play if Thad walks. but a lot may depend upon playoff results. if we can't win a series with Thad, moving on will make more sense.

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I'm not convince that Leaf will be able to play PF in the NBA until he's 25, that's one skinny kid. The Pacers could have had John Collins or Kyle Kuzma with that pick and would be much deeper now.

The 2018 draft I want a SF I would kill for Miles Bridges of Michigan State.

basketballwacko2 wrote:
I'm not convince that Leaf will be able to play PF in the NBA until he's 25, that's one skinny kid. The Pacers could have had John Collins or Kyle Kuzma with that pick and would be much deeper now.

The 2018 draft I want a SF I would kill for Miles Bridges of Michigan State.

Leaf will gain muscle sooner than that but I'm with you on Bridges ... either Bridges. don't expect either to drop that far though. maybe Vanderbilt or Duval. I like Brunson lower too.

everyone missed on Kuzma but we might have drafted differently if the OKC trade went before the draft.

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Anyone rather have OG than Leaf?