Pacers non-guaranteed contracts.

basketballwacko2 · Post #1 » by **basketballwacko2** » Sat May 5, 2018 2:53 am

Ok I have a question for someone who knows the CBA better than I do. The Pacers have 3 partial guaranteed contracts, DC is only guaranteed $2 million, Bogie is Guaranteed $1.5 million and Al Jefferson is guaranteed $4 million.

My question is if DC is released and paid his $2 million does he have a cap hold? How much is it if so. If not can the Pacers resign him using cap space after bringing in another player in free agency. And does the $2 million count on this years cap hit or does it roll over to next year if we do it before July 1st.

My idea is the Pacers might release either Bogie or DC or both and then try to resign them for a slightly lower annual amount. Jefferson should be cut there is no question or used as a trade chip to acquire another player and a pick.

If either Bogie or DC could be released paid their 2018-19 guarantees and then resigned after FA begins July 1st it would give the team a chance to go after other players or trades. Then say bring back DC for 3 yrs $8.5 million maybe even as the mid level exception is the team is over the cap.

Wizop · Post #2 » by **Wizop** » Sat May 5, 2018 1:55 pm

I think not. you can't renounce a player and unrenouce him except in very limited circumstances involving failed offers for restricted free agents. you can't trade a player, have the new team waive him, and then sign him back within a year. see cbafaq.com.

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basketballwacko2 · Post #3 » by **basketballwacko2** » Mon May 7, 2018 11:22 pm

Ok I'm not talking about renouncing them you do that when they are a free agent and they have played out their contracts. They have a FA Hold and if you want to free up cap space you have to renounce them.

But if you have a player who has a non or Partial guaranteed deal and you release him pay him is guarantee amount (Collison $2 million) in June of 2018. The new season starts July 1st Free agency begins the same.

My question is Collison who would be a UFA does he have a cap hold? If so he'd have to be renounced. I believe you can renounce a player and later resign them, but you would not have Bird rights and would have to either use the MLE or cap space if you have it.

Wizop · Post #4 » by **Wizop** » Tue May 8, 2018 12:16 am

basketballwacko2 wrote:Ok I'm not talking about renouncing them you do that when they are a free agent and they have played out their contracts. They have a FA Hold and if you want to free up cap space you have to renounce them.

why would it be any different if they become a free agent via waiver?

you seem to be wanting to create cap room by waiving the guys with small guarantees, then using the room to sign a big money player, and then use exceptions to resign our guys to smaller deals. seems like a cap loophole that should be closed, but maybe Scoot will show up to clarify.

now we could certainly do something with Al's deal if his playing days are over here. and if Thad opts out and demands a huge raise, he could be renounced.

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basketballwacko2 · Post #5 » by **basketballwacko2** » Tue May 8, 2018 3:51 am

I don't know that is what I was asking but I want some place in the CBA where it tells and I haven't found it.

Vorda · Post #6 » by **Vorda** » Tue May 8, 2018 6:47 am

Can teams resign players before 1-st July? Croatia plays immportant World cup qualifing games in June so if Indiana will wait until July Bogie will not be able to play for his country...

I dont know why KP didnt already activate Bogies second year... he deserved one more year in Pacers...

winter_mute_13 · Post #7 » by **winter_mute_13** » Tue May 8, 2018 7:02 am

Wizop is talking about this:

http://www.cbafaq.com/salarycap.htm#Q64

When a team trades a player who is subsequently waived by the receiving team, it cannot claim the player off waivers or re-sign the player until the one-year anniversary of the trade, or until the July 1 following the end of his contract, whichever is earlier.

But basketballwacko's idea is to waive the players ourselves instead of trading them (yes, it's different). As far as I know, there's nothng to prevent that. But there is also no point because once waived, we won't have any exceptions to re-sign them with.

DC and Bojan only have 1 year with the team, so they don't qualify for Bird rights. The Pacers would have the so-called non-Bird exception though, but that is lost if the players are waived (same goes for Bird rights actually).

http://www.cbafaq.com/salarycap.htm#Q25

NON-BIRD EXCEPTION -- This is also a component of the Veteran Free Agent exception. Its name is somewhat of a misnomer, since Non-Bird really is a form of Bird rights. Players who qualify for this exception are called "Non-Qualifying Veteran Free Agents" in the CBA. They are veteran free agents who are neither Qualifying Veteran Free Agents nor Early Qualifying Veteran Free Agents, and include the following:

Players who finished the season with a given team, who have played no more than one season without clearing waivers or changing teams as a free agent.

LARRY BIRD EXCEPTION -- This exception allows teams to exceed the cap in order to re-sign their own free agents, up to the player's maximum salary. Teams are said to have "Bird rights" to players who qualify. To qualify for this exception a player essentially must play for three seasons without clearing waivers or changing teams as a free agent

winter_mute_13 · Post #8 » by **winter_mute_13** » Tue May 8, 2018 7:12 am

Vorda wrote:Can teams resign players before 1-st July? Croatia plays immportant World cup qualifing games in June so if Indiana will wait until July Bogie will not be able to play for his country...

I dont know why KP didnt already activate Bogies second year... he deserved one more year in Pacers...

I guess because there is still the possibility of trading him (for example, during the draft). Basically, teams generally won't decide until the option deadline in order to maximize their possibilities. If this was important to Bogie, he should have negotiated a different deadline date.

Also, from the business side of things, I would think KP would want the option to waive Bogey in case he does get injured playing for Croatia... it's harsh but it makes sense for the team.

Vorda · Post #9 » by **Vorda** » Tue May 8, 2018 7:47 am

winter_mute_13 wrote:
Vorda wrote:Can teams resign players before 1-st July? Croatia plays immportant World cup qualifing games in June so if Indiana will wait until July Bogie will not be able to play for his country...

I dont know why KP didnt already activate Bogies second year... he deserved one more year in Pacers...

I guess because there is still the possibility of trading him (for example, during the draft). Basically, teams generally won't decide until the option deadline in order to maximize their possibilities. If this was important to Bogie, he should have negotiated a different deadline date.

Also, from the business side of things, I would think KP would want the option to waive Bogey in case he does get injured playing for Croatia... it's harsh but it makes sense for the team.

Well there is not many options on SF, unless KP want sign LBJ, PG13 or KL... I dont Know whether he was able to negotiate deadline date... Possible injury is big issue... I agree with that... In theory, Bogie can play for his country, but he has to be at 1st July on medical test in USA... very complicated for him...

Post #10 » by **boomershadow** » Tue May 8, 2018 1:09 pm

winter_mute_13 wrote:
Vorda wrote:Can teams resign players before 1-st July? Croatia plays immportant World cup qualifing games in June so if Indiana will wait until July Bogie will not be able to play for his country...

I dont know why KP didnt already activate Bogies second year... he deserved one more year in Pacers...

I guess because there is still the possibility of trading him (for example, during the draft). Basically, teams generally won't decide until the option deadline in order to maximize their possibilities. If this was important to Bogie, he should have negotiated a different deadline date.

Also, from the business side of things, I would think KP would want the option to waive Bogey in case he does get injured playing for Croatia... it's harsh but it makes sense for the team.

Bogdanovich's contract doesn't have a "team option" for the second year that has to be activated like some contracts do. In order to keep him on the team next season, they basically don't have to do anything.

His salary for next season is only partially guaranteed, but in order to get that money off the books, the team would have to waive him before June 29th. I don't expect that to happen though.

Wizop · Post #11 » by **Wizop** » Tue May 8, 2018 1:35 pm

winter_mute_13 wrote:Also, from the business side of things, I would think KP would want the option to waive Bogey in case he does get injured playing for Croatia... it's harsh but it makes sense for the team.

from the basketball side of things, I doubt KP wants Bogie to play in the summer. he did that last year and didn't have fresh legs when he reported here.

Vorda · Post #12 » by **Vorda** » Tue May 8, 2018 2:50 pm

Wizop wrote:
winter_mute_13 wrote:Also, from the business side of things, I would think KP would want the option to waive Bogey in case he does get injured playing for Croatia... it's harsh but it makes sense for the team.

from the basketball side of things, I doubt KP wants Bogie to play in the summer. he did that last year and didn't have fresh legs when he reported here.

It's only two games in June and two games in september... he will be free all summer...

basketballwacko2 · Post #13 » by **basketballwacko2** » Wed May 9, 2018 12:09 am

Vorda wrote:Can teams resign players before 1-st July? Croatia plays immportant World cup qualifing games in June so if Indiana will wait until July Bogie will not be able to play for his country...

I dont know why KP didnt already activate Bogies second year... he deserved one more year in Pacers...

I expect he will be brought back probably hear it in June.

Pacers_Freak · Post #14 » by **Pacers_Freak** » Wed May 9, 2018 1:26 pm

Vorda wrote:Can teams resign players before 1-st July? Croatia plays immportant World cup qualifing games in June so if Indiana will wait until July Bogie will not be able to play for his country...

I dont know why KP didnt already activate Bogies second year... he deserved one more year in Pacers...

There is no activation. He is under contract with the Pacers for 10.5 million. If he is waived by June 29th the Pacers only owe him 1.5 million. So there is nothing the Pacers can do on his contract right now. On the 29th he is either on the team or not. Which I'm sure he will be unless he gets traded.