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I grew up when centers ruled the league in the low post. There was contact, a little wrestling, punching, and low post scoring. What do you do with a guy that can score at will in the post, but can't guard the 3 point line? Would it have effected Shaq? Would his man camp out on the three point line and bombs away? On the Pacers, we have Sabonis. He can move his feet, score down low, but he is still a liability on the perimeter. Is there a way to protect a low post scorer? I'm not talking about slow stiffs, I'm talking about quick bigs who can run the floor, but they are just not perimeter defenders. What kind of personnel or scheme is needed to help them, so that the defense can still be at a high level with them on the court? For an even bigger challenge, could a guy like Issac Haas from Purdue ever find a role in today's NBA? He is not nearly as quick as Sabonis, but to be fair, he runs the floor well. It is a shame that a dominant low post guy who can run the floor has no fit in today's game.

Some months ago I started a thread on the draft forum asking why no love for Haas. I'd bring him to summer league. Wingspan shouldn't be sole factor.

Haas signed by Utah.

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I love this question.

I think we may actually be on the cusp, the very beginning of a return to importance of those sort of players.

Why?

Because teams will start to figure out that you can't "out Warrior the Warriors". You have to do something different to beat them. One way to do that is to punish them inside. Make them pay for daring to come into the lane, and make them get out of your way on the other end. Think of the outcome of their playoff series if the Rockets would have had a Hakeem or even a Ewing. Yeah, those players were rare, but I think we will start to see more of them. I hope so anyway.

Wizop wrote:Some months ago I started a thread on the draft forum asking why no love for Haas. I'd bring him to summer league. Wingspan shouldn't be sole factor.

Haas signed by Utah.

Sent from my phone.

Outside of Haas being too slow for the NBA imo, I think the biggest reason for him not to get drafted was the off the court stuff.

Jake0890 wrote:Outside of Haas being too slow for the NBA imo, I think the biggest reason for him not to get drafted was the off the court stuff.

must admit I follow IU and Butler and not Purdue and really didn't pay attention to the his off court problems.

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Off the court stuff on Haas? Never heard that. There might be some situational use for Haas. In the gan
Me I’m seeing it’s hard to identify.

Tom White wrote: Think of the outcome of their playoff series if the Rockets would have had a Hakeem or even a Ewing. Yeah, those players were rare, but I think we will start to see more of them. I hope so anyway.

we were right there with the Hibbert team if Granger hadn't gone down.

agree completely that you won't beat the warriors at their own game.

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The old timer's(me) thought that if some 5 tried to be a three point shooter, that the more physical center would punish him down low. That never seemed to happen. The low post guy could never be enough of a problem to offset a wide open guy chucking threes.

If you can play D and shoot the 3 there is a place in the NBA for you. The main needs in the NBA today are positional flexibility, primarily the ability to guard different positions, and the ability to stretch the floor. Todays game is far more athletic than it was when post play was a big part of the game. There is a good chance that a dominant post player can find a role, but the ability to make 3 point shots at a 40+% clip will always be of more value on the offensive side.

It's not so much that the skills are obsolete, it's that versatility has become important. The best players in NBA history have always been the versatile ones. We think of Wilt, Kareem, and Shaq as dominant post scorers, but they are a tier above someone like Moses Malone because they could see the floor and pass. Michael Jordan didn't just score, he did literally everything.

Basically, the more versatility you have, the fewer holes in your game the opposing team can exploit. Roy Hibbert did one thing. If he couldn't do that one thing, he was unplayable.

From a math perspective, NBA teams score on average about 1.06 points per possession. Post ups generally end up being less than that, and free throws and threes tend to be higher. Someone like Shaq would still dominate because for his career he shot 58% which is good for 1.16! He would been 1.05 PPP on free throws, which you'll take because there is more cost for hacking in today's NBA. The problem isn't that someone like Shaq can't play in the NBA. The problem is that the best post player in the Eastern Conference playoffs this season was... Jonas Valaciunas...

It's not so much that big men can't play anymore I think, it's that traditional big man skills are less valued.

On offense, the NBA is going away from isolation plays (a very good thing in my view), whether it's a star wing going iso from the perimeter or a star center going to work from the post. The difference is that wings are generally more flexible and can reconfigure to play in different ways (but not every wing can - see guys like Melo or Monta), while traditional bigs are generally more limited in their skills. So you see guys like the multi-skilled Love still being a potent scoring threat, or the more limited but athletic Capela being excellent as a roll man, but the guys whose main calling card is low post scoring - from Al Jefferson to Jah Okafor - just don't find a lot of use anymore. This doesn't mean that inside scoring has no value anymore (still the best percentage shot in the game), just that it should work in the team context and not just in isolation (which tends to bog down team play).

On defense, the emphasis now is on switchability instead of just protecting the paint. This moved in tandem with the changes in offense - with offensive threats now more spread out, it's far easier to neutralize the slow giants parked in the paint. Of course being able to stop inside shots is still of value, but the downside of not being able to challenge open shots from the perimeter is just too much. So versatile defenders who can adequately defend a wide range of players are now much sought after.

I think we're seeing a new generation of bigs who are able to adapt to the new demands. At the end of the day, basketball is a tall person's game, and as the cliche has it, "height is might" and "you can't teach height". The new bigs will just look different from the traditional ones, that's all.

the draft was dominated by bugs. we'll see how they get used. a good coach can still go old school. witness Utah and Gobert.

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8305 wrote:Off the court stuff on Haas? Never heard that. There might be some situational use for Haas. In the gan
Me I’m seeing it’s hard to identify.

it's some weird stuff about Haas knowingly infecting girls with STDs, lol. he's in court about in currently still, i think.

https://www.jconline.com/story/sports/ncaab/2018/04/11/purdue-isaac-haas-accused-infecting-partner-std-lawsuit/507899002/

Depends on the team fit, I think. Though the big man game has evolved since the time of the great big men. Most teams now look on big men who can shoot from outside on pick and roll plays. In turn, the other team needs one who can chase the outside shooting big men as well.

I think a team can capitalize on the lack of traditional big men too, like Capela and Houston, Adams and the Thunder, etc. I know they are a cut above the rest but it could be just a matter of finding a really good one.