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Potential FA to pursue in 2019

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Re: Potential FA to pursue in 2019 

Post#21 » by Scoot McGroot » Wed Sep 26, 2018 11:25 pm

HurricaneDij25 wrote:
Scoot McGroot wrote:
HurricaneDij25 wrote:
It's not that I'm not excited about the year, just envisioning the world of possibilities we're going to have going forward. That, and creating this year's version of "FA to pursue" thread. That said, bringing back relatively the same core as last season makes us a bit prone to complacency, however, after a surprise season last year.

Maybe Turner breaks out, maybe he doesn't. But to me, he has to improve dramatically to be worth $20 million a year IMO. I'd give that money to Harris over Turner 24/7. Keep in mind Tobias' rebound numbers were down last season in large part due to the fact he's played alongside the likes of Drummond and DeAndre Jordan.


That doesn’t quite explain his Orlando year’s, though. And he’s also a career 33% shooter from 3 if you leave out his magical season last year from 3. So, it’s hard to know what you’re getting. But at the least, you know you’re getting a lesser rebounding, lesser 3 pt shooter, lesser defender, and worse rim protector than Myles, while likely paying Tobias over $25m per season, and maybe even a max contract.


"Rim protection" is literally the only thing Turner has on Tobias, and of course a center's rebounding numbers are going to be higher than that of a tweener power forward, and the difference really isn't that significant as is. And rim protection is overrated in today's NBA, especially with LeBron James now in the other conference. Look, I don't want to turn this into a Turner bashing session on my part. I like his work ethic and positive outlook on things. It's simply a matter of him not being worth the money he's going to command - That is all.


It’s arguabke that Tobias May get MORE money than Turner in free agency. 10+ teams will have space for a maximum contract offer, and Myles will likely have any chance of offers from the outside lessened because he will be restricted. Tobias will be unrestricted and in the first tier of guys that are possibly changing places.
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Re: Potential FA to pursue in 2019 

Post#22 » by Pacers_Freak » Thu Sep 27, 2018 12:58 pm

HurricaneDij25 wrote:
Scoot McGroot wrote:
HurricaneDij25 wrote:
It's not that I'm not excited about the year, just envisioning the world of possibilities we're going to have going forward. That, and creating this year's version of "FA to pursue" thread. That said, bringing back relatively the same core as last season makes us a bit prone to complacency, however, after a surprise season last year.

Maybe Turner breaks out, maybe he doesn't. But to me, he has to improve dramatically to be worth $20 million a year IMO. I'd give that money to Harris over Turner 24/7. Keep in mind Tobias' rebound numbers were down last season in large part due to the fact he's played alongside the likes of Drummond and DeAndre Jordan.


That doesn’t quite explain his Orlando year’s, though. And he’s also a career 33% shooter from 3 if you leave out his magical season last year from 3. So, it’s hard to know what you’re getting. But at the least, you know you’re getting a lesser rebounding, lesser 3 pt shooter, lesser defender, and worse rim protector than Myles, while likely paying Tobias over $25m per season, and maybe even a max contract.


"Rim protection" is literally the only thing Turner has on Tobias, and of course a center's rebounding numbers are going to be higher than that of a tweener power forward, and the difference really isn't that significant as is. And rim protection is overrated in today's NBA, especially with LeBron James now in the other conference. Look, I don't want to turn this into a Turner bashing session on my part. I like his work ethic and positive outlook on things. It's simply a matter of him not being worth the money he's going to command - That is all.


Harris is a solid player. Got nothing against him. But he screams not being worth the money he is going to command. Just find it ironic you think that about Myles but not Tobias. To me Harris is a good player that has been a stat stuffer on some bad teams.
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Re: Potential FA to pursue in 2019 

Post#23 » by Wizop » Thu Sep 27, 2018 1:28 pm

I like Harris based upon how much trouble we've had defending him, but let's not get sidetracked. The market will determine what Turner is worth and it will probably be more that many will think justified. that's just the way NBA deals work. I imagine that there were tons of OKC fans who thought Vic getting 20 million was a huge overpay. Now it looks cheap. we older folks remember John Koncak who got a contract that seemed so big he was called John Kontract, but before the deal was over it was normal.
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Re: Potential FA to pursue in 2019 

Post#24 » by Pacers_Freak » Thu Sep 27, 2018 2:32 pm

Wizop wrote:I like Harris based upon how much trouble we've had defending him, but let's not get sidetracked. The market will determine what Turner is worth and it will probably be more that many will think justified. that's just the way NBA deals work. I imagine that there were tons of OKC fans who thought Vic getting 20 million was a huge overpay. Now it looks cheap. we older folks remember John Koncak who got a contract that seemed so big he was called John Kontract, but before the deal was over it was normal.


Yeah seems we have struggled with the free agents that hurt us while with other teams. Chris Copeland was a Pacer killer then nada here. I recall Monte taking over some games against us when he was in Dallas, we all know that result. Not that Chris Copeland is the same as Tobias.... just food for thought.
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Re: Potential FA to pursue in 2019 

Post#25 » by Jake0890 » Thu Sep 27, 2018 5:20 pm

HurricaneDij25 wrote:
Jake0890 wrote:Klay. Thompson.

A west coast guy that will never come here.


Him being from the west coast means he will refuse to play for Indiana? :crazy:

Klay Thompson is going to be the signing of the off-season if a team can get him to leave the Warriors. It'll take a max, but I'd pay a max to a 28 year old elite SG with all-time great shooting skills.

Him next to Vic would be DISGUSTING.
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Re: Potential FA to pursue in 2019 

Post#26 » by Wizop » Thu Sep 27, 2018 6:58 pm

Jake0890 wrote:Klay Thompson is going to be the signing of the off-season if a team can get him to leave the Warriors. It'll take a max, but I'd pay a max to a 28 year old elite SG with all-time great shooting skills.

Him next to Vic would be DISGUSTING.


Klay is worth big money, but I want to see Reke play with Vic before I put a 2 rather than a 3 at the top of my wish list. I also want to see Doug and to a lesser extent TJ. in draft terms, BPA works best when it intersects with need.
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Re: Potential FA to pursue in 2019 

Post#27 » by Jake0890 » Thu Sep 27, 2018 8:23 pm

Wizop wrote:
Jake0890 wrote:Klay Thompson is going to be the signing of the off-season if a team can get him to leave the Warriors. It'll take a max, but I'd pay a max to a 28 year old elite SG with all-time great shooting skills.

Him next to Vic would be DISGUSTING.


Klay is worth big money, but I want to see Reke play with Vic before I put a 2 rather than a 3 at the top of my wish list. I also want to see Doug and to a lesser extent TJ. in draft terms, BPA works best when it intersects with need.


I'm all in on the idea of Vic becoming the primary ballhandler and phasing the traditional point guard role out our lineups. Vic's explosiveness and penetration ability makes him far more effective on-ball whether as a distributer or scorer than off-ball. Klay is the IDEAL off-ball SG in the NBA today.

Vic at 1, Klay at 2, and while we're dreaming, maybe a Tobias Harris type at the 3/4.
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Re: Potential FA to pursue in 2019 

Post#28 » by HurricaneDij25 » Wed Oct 31, 2018 4:21 pm

Let's bump this up. The Cavs have their own 2019 FA thread, and I think we could all agree that we're more likely to attract someone than they are.

Scratch the Bledsoe idea. If he does leave Milwaukee, I think he's more likely to join up with his fellow Klutch Sports buddy in LeBron.

Keep the Harris idea. Re-sign Evans and CoJo, and maybe bring in an extra point guard option like a Cameron Payne. He hit seven threes that one game and could be a good fit next to 'Dipo...
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Re: Potential FA to pursue in 2019 

Post#29 » by Scoot McGroot » Wed Oct 31, 2018 6:01 pm

HurricaneDij25 wrote:Let's bump this up. The Cavs have their own 2019 FA thread, and I think we could all agree that we're more likely to attract someone than they are.

Scratch the Bledsoe idea. If he does leave Milwaukee, I think he's more likely to join up with his fellow Klutch Sports buddy in LeBron.

Keep the Harris idea. Re-sign Evans and CoJo, and maybe bring in an extra point guard option like a Cameron Payne. He hit seven threes that one game and could be a good fit next to 'Dipo...


For Payne, he’s had one good shooting game all year where he went 7/11 from three. Throw out the one outlier, and he’s 3/13 from three otherwise on the season. He’s also a horrific defender. Think if him as a less proven DJ Augustin. He’s definitely not an answer at the Pg spot, and would be more competing for the 3rd PG spot, maybe the 2nd on a decent team.

Ultimately, I could see us going after Harris. Though, he’s almost a guarantee to get maxed. I could see us more going with Middleton than Harris though.
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Re: Potential FA to pursue in 2019 

Post#30 » by boomershadow » Wed Oct 31, 2018 7:32 pm

There are a lot of options out there, but it is super difficult to guess what the team will do imo just because it's so open. So many roster spots will need filled, and what happens with one will necessarily affect what will need done with the others, and so on.
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Re: Potential FA to pursue in 2019 

Post#31 » by Scoot McGroot » Thu Nov 1, 2018 2:41 am

boomershadow wrote:There are a lot of options out there, but it is super difficult to guess what the team will do imo just because it's so open. So many roster spots will need filled, and what happens with one will necessarily affect what will need done with the others, and so on.



And we can’t just plan on re signing our guys affordably either. They’ve played real well with us and other teams are going to want what they provide too. We’re going to have to continue to scout and find under appreciated guys elsewhere that can do what we want them to do for us.

A whole lot of moving parts, for sure.
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Re: Potential FA to pursue in 2019 

Post#32 » by Topofthekey » Fri Nov 2, 2018 7:14 pm

Not sure where to post this since we don't have a trades thread, so I'll just park it here

There seems to be some support behind the idea that Hornets should trade for Jimmy Butler and pair him with Kemba walker, believing he'd re-sign long term; I guess this comes from the feeling that Butler wants to play for a team that plays hard and wins

But if this were the case, wouldn't a team like Bucks be an even better destination? Pairing Butler with Giannis would be deadly, and Bucks do have some pieces to offer in a trade

For the matter, wouldn't Pacers also be a better destination for Butler than Hornets? If Butler is going to be happy playing with Kemba, won't he be even happier playing with Vic and Domas and Myles? Plus Pacers did relatively well in the playoffs last season, compared to Bucks who clearly got outmatched by Celtics, and Hornets who missed the playoffs altogether

So how come Butler to Hornets is gaining traction somewhat on the trade boards, but Butler to Pacers rarely get a mention
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Re: Potential FA to pursue in 2019 

Post#33 » by Scoot McGroot » Fri Nov 2, 2018 7:40 pm

Topofthekey wrote:Not sure where to post this since we don't have a trades thread, so I'll just park it here

There seems to be some support behind the idea that Hornets should trade for Jimmy Butler and pair him with Kemba walker, believing he'd re-sign long term; I guess this comes from the feeling that Butler wants to play for a team that plays hard and wins

But if this were the case, wouldn't a team like Bucks be an even better destination? Pairing Butler with Giannis would be deadly, and Bucks do have some pieces to offer in a trade

For the matter, wouldn't Pacers also be a better destination for Butler than Hornets? If Butler is going to be happy playing with Kemba, won't he be even happier playing with Vic and Domas and Myles? Plus Pacers did relatively well in the playoffs last season, compared to Bucks who clearly got outmatched by Celtics, and Hornets who missed the playoffs altogether

So how come Butler to Hornets is gaining traction somewhat on the trade boards, but Butler to Pacers rarely get a mention

Just my opinion, but likely because Indy is viewed as long term competitive and stable. We can build around Vic, Myles, and Dom and figure the rest out. We’re not quick hitters in terms of changing plans super quick. We also have our “stars” under long term control, whereas Kemba is expiring for Charlotte. The trade board seems to view it more as Charlotte having to make a move to keep Kemba interested, and Butler still wanting out of Minnesota.

But yeah. I think if we dealt for Butler, and we’re willing to sign him to his 5yr/$190+m max contract, he’d be happy to stay. But, if Thibs is holding firm, we’d probably have to include Dom to get him, and I think that’s too far. But if we could net him for a Bogs/Collison/1st package? Sure!
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Re: Potential FA to pursue in 2019 

Post#34 » by Topofthekey » Tue Nov 6, 2018 10:51 pm

So let's take a look at what the free agency season might look like for Pacers

Only 6 (I think) of the current Pacers roster are contracted to return next season: Vic, Myles, Domas, Dougie, Leaf, Holiday

I read somewhere that Pacers will have close to 50m in cap space, but there are a lot of holes to fill. Pacers can of course opt to just re-sign all their own FAs and basically bring the same team back, but should they?

Thad and Bogie are both good to have around (especially Thad), but I think they probably are looking for one more payday. If they're willing to come back for something similar to Dougie's contract, that'll be fantastic. But I'm guessing they'll probably command something starting between 10-15m on the FA market, or perhaps more if some team randomly decides that they are the missing piece they need and throw money at them. Do Pacers give them that kind of contract and bring them back? For me it's a bit hard to say, maybe Pacers bring back one of them, depending on who else they manage to sign

Next there's Collison and CoJo. They should probably be cheaper than Thad and Bogie, but DC's getting old, and CoJo is... an averagish player? DC as a starter is ok-ish, and CoJo as a backup just basically means no playing time for Holiday. I'm of the opinion that it's time for Pacers to move on

And then there's Tyreke, and he's probably looking for a payday as well. Again, it's easy to see him commanding something around 10-15m, or more. He's been a bit unimpressive, not horrible, but he hasn't shown enough to make me want to commit to having him on the team long term, so short answer for me would be, unless his play improves markedly I'm ok with Pacers moving on as well

Problem is though, there aren't that many great options out there in the FA market for the Pacers to pursue. Maybe Ricky Rubio. Not sure how much it will take to lure him away from Jazz, but he could be a nice albeit unspectacular upgrade at PG. Maybe Harrison Barnes as well, but again not sure how much it is going to take, and if he gets too expensive, Pacers might be better off bringing back Bogie for cheaper

I think ultimately Pacers might just spend most of their cap space bringing back the existing crew, with a small addition or two here and there. Not that there's anything wrong with that, but it'll just feel a little underwhelming, especially given how much the other teams in the same conference are going to improve
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Re: Potential FA to pursue in 2019 

Post#35 » by Scoot McGroot » Wed Nov 7, 2018 2:55 am

Topofthekey wrote:So let's take a look at what the free agency season might look like for Pacers

Only 6 (I think) of the current Pacers roster are contracted to return next season: Vic, Myles, Domas, Dougie, Leaf, Holiday

I read somewhere that Pacers will have close to 50m in cap space, but there are a lot of holes to fill. Pacers can of course opt to just re-sign all their own FAs and basically bring the same team back, but should they?

Thad and Bogie are both good to have around (especially Thad), but I think they probably are looking for one more payday. If they're willing to come back for something similar to Dougie's contract, that'll be fantastic. But I'm guessing they'll probably command something starting between 10-15m on the FA market, or perhaps more if some team randomly decides that they are the missing piece they need and throw money at them. Do Pacers give them that kind of contract and bring them back? For me it's a bit hard to say, maybe Pacers bring back one of them, depending on who else they manage to sign

Next there's Collison and CoJo. They should probably be cheaper than Thad and Bogie, but DC's getting old, and CoJo is... an averagish player? DC as a starter is ok-ish, and CoJo as a backup just basically means no playing time for Holiday. I'm of the opinion that it's time for Pacers to move on

And then there's Tyreke, and he's probably looking for a payday as well. Again, it's easy to see him commanding something around 10-15m, or more. He's been a bit unimpressive, not horrible, but he hasn't shown enough to make me want to commit to having him on the team long term, so short answer for me would be, unless his play improves markedly I'm ok with Pacers moving on as well

Problem is though, there aren't that many great options out there in the FA market for the Pacers to pursue. Maybe Ricky Rubio. Not sure how much it will take to lure him away from Jazz, but he could be a nice albeit unspectacular upgrade at PG. Maybe Harrison Barnes as well, but again not sure how much it is going to take, and if he gets too expensive, Pacers might be better off bringing back Bogie for cheaper

I think ultimately Pacers might just spend most of their cap space bringing back the existing crew, with a small addition or two here and there. Not that there's anything wrong with that, but it'll just feel a little underwhelming, especially given how much the other teams in the same conference are going to improve


$50m was before re signing Myles. We know project to max at around $33m in cap space if we renounce everyone.
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Re: Potential FA to pursue in 2019 

Post#36 » by Topofthekey » Wed Nov 7, 2018 3:26 pm

Well, with not that much cap space available, I think Pacers can only target more affordable FAs

Try to sign both Nikola Mirotic and Ricky Rubio maybe. And try to trade for Taurean Prince before the deadline. I can see a starting lineup of Domas/Mirotic/Prince/Vic/Rubio working quite well, with Myles as 6th man
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Re: Potential FA to pursue in 2019 

Post#37 » by Vorda » Thu Nov 8, 2018 7:09 am

Rozier is available for trade... what can we give for him... DC+Holliday +2nd?
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Re: Potential FA to pursue in 2019 

Post#38 » by Scoot McGroot » Thu Nov 8, 2018 6:38 pm

Vorda wrote:Rozier is available for trade... what can we give for him... DC+Holliday +2nd?


He’s not available. He may be unhappy with his Playing time, but Boston made it clear they’re not trading him this year since they’re playing for a championship.
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Re: Potential FA to pursue in 2019 

Post#39 » by Vorda » Thu Nov 8, 2018 6:45 pm

Scoot McGroot wrote:
Vorda wrote:Rozier is available for trade... what can we give for him... DC+Holliday +2nd?


He’s not available. He may be unhappy with his Playing time, but Boston made it clear they’re not trading him this year since they’re playing for a championship.
I dont understand... what championship are playing Celtics for? In NBA they have no chance...

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Re: Potential FA to pursue in 2019 

Post#40 » by Wizop » Thu Nov 8, 2018 8:42 pm

Scoot McGroot wrote:
Vorda wrote:Rozier is available for trade... what can we give for him... DC+Holliday +2nd?


He’s not available. He may be unhappy with his Playing time, but Boston made it clear they’re not trading him this year since they’re playing for a championship.


and if they did want to trade him, they'd surely send him West so they didn't have to face him before the finals of the playoffs.
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