Aaron Holiday

[13th Man]

Sorry for jumping in out of nowhere, as a fantasy player isn't Holiday a point guard? Would it not make sense for him to take over Collison's spot who's been playing like garbage? I realize that this isn't going to happen after 2 good games but I kind of see this being inevitable with how things are trending...

[Nuntius]

Sorry for jumping in out of nowhere, as a fantasy player isn't Holiday a point guard? Would it not make sense for him to take over Collison's spot who's been playing like garbage? I realize that this isn't going to happen after 2 good games but I kind of see this being inevitable with how things are trending...

Yes, Holiday is a point guard. No, I don't expect him to take over Collison's spot. If anyone takes over Collison's spot that would be Cory Joseph. That said, I don't expect Collison to actually lose his spot. We are very patient when it comes to changing our lineup. We've always been that way.

[Wizop]

Why Evans... he is perfect 6th man for this team...

The Evans we thought we were getting would be perfect. So far that's not the Evans we have.

[Wizop]

I'm moving this out of the Bojan thread. I could have started a DC thread but I think this is a logical place to put it.

We should try to force trade for Rubio this season.... DC +2nd for Rubio... we need upgrade on PG...

If Rubio is such an upgrade from DC, as you believe, how on earth would Utah agree to swap them for just a 2nd?

Maybe they don't know how bad DC is... they are not watching him every game

our coaches watch them every game and in practice every day. wouldn't they know if DC is terrible and move Holiday up at least to 2nd unit behind CoJo or all of the way to starter? they could also move Sumner up from Fort Wayne.

Holiday and DC are similar in size but Holiday seems to have longer arms and more hops so he has the potential to be a better defender. he's also a fearless shooter although he's been mostly missing lately. now McMillan is a bit of an old school coach who may just think rookies need a year on the bench but he was willing to play Holiday when Vic was out. perhaps Holiday will get some time with Tyreke out.

[Vorda]

I'm moving this out of the Bojan thread. I could have started a DC thread but I think this is a logical place to put it.

If Rubio is such an upgrade from DC, as you believe, how on earth would Utah agree to swap them for just a 2nd?

Maybe they don't know how bad DC is... they are not watching him every game

our coaches watch them every game and in practice every day. wouldn't they know if DC is terrible and move Holiday up at least to 2nd unit behind CoJo or all of the way to starter? they could also move Sumner up from Fort Wayne.

Holiday and DC are similar in size but Holiday seems to have longer arms and more hops so he has the potential to be a better defender. he's also a fearless shooter although he's been mostly missing lately. now McMillan is a bit of an old school coach who may just think rookies need a year on the bench but he was willing to play Holiday when Vic was out. perhaps Holiday will get some time with Tyreke out.

Maybe Aaron is not yet ready to be starting PG

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[Wizop]

Maybe Aaron is not yet ready to be starting PG

now on that we can agree. I suppose we can also agree that DC is the least valuable of our 5 current starters. I just don't think that makes him terrible or that anything is to be gained by bringing in another veteran ahead of Holiday and CoJo. someone will always be the least valuable starter.

[Vorda]

Maybe Aaron is not yet ready to be starting PG

now on that we can agree. I suppose we can also agree that DC is the least valuable of our 5 current starters. I just don't think that makes him terrible or that anything is to be gained by bringing in another veteran ahead of Holiday and CoJo. someone will always be the least valuable starter.

The problem is that quality PG is missing part what we need to be contender

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[pacers33granger]

I suppose we can also agree that DC is the least valuable of our 5 current starters. I just don't think that makes him terrible or that anything is to be gained by bringing in another veteran ahead of Holiday and CoJo. someone will always be the least valuable starter.

While this is true, the major issue I see with him being our worst starter is the fact that PG is so deep right now with talent. Short of having legit stars at all other positions, a PG really should not be anyone's worst starter. Ideally going into next season Thad would be our worst starter, but I'm not entirely sure how we get to that without Holiday taking a huge step unfortunately.

[Wizop]

The problem is that quality PG is missing part what we need to be contender

contender? we're two games out of first with Toronto coming back to the pack with Lowry out. to me that's contending.

now if you mean we aren't favorites to beat Golden State, who is? if you could waive a magic wand, would any transformation short of DC for Curry or Douggie for Durant make us clearly better than they are?

[Vorda]

The problem is that quality PG is missing part what we need to be contender

contender? we're two games out of first with Toronto coming back to the pack with Lowry out. to me that's contending.

now if you mean we aren't favorites to beat Golden State, who is? if you could waive a magic wand, would any transformation short of DC for Curry or Douggie for Durant make us clearly better than they are?

We can win against Torontobor Boston in PO... we need more talent... or better PG

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[Major Cold]

The problem is that quality PG is missing part what we need to be contender

contender? we're two games out of first with Toronto coming back to the pack with Lowry out. to me that's contending.

now if you mean we aren't favorites to beat Golden State, who is? if you could waive a magic wand, would any transformation short of DC for Curry or Douggie for Durant make us clearly better than they are?

IF the playoffs system was like the regular season system you would have a point. But do you really think we can beat Toronto in 7 games with the talent on our roster? A clicking Boston?

[Wizop]

But do you really think we can beat Toronto in 7 games with the talent on our roster? A clicking Boston?

do you think this year's team could win a 7 game series against last year's Cleveland team? we came awfully close last year and I think we're better now.

Sent from my phone.

[basketballwacko2]

I'm not sure that you are getting much back for either of those 2. May be better off just keeping them for depth. Agree that Holiday needs to play though.

Hard to say. DC could probably not something small if dealt to the right spot like Phoenix. Could maybe get salary filler and the future Milwaukee 1st if we include a 2nd? Or, if Phoenix is real down on Josh Jackson, maybe we could snag him if we include a little extra value?

But, as I think Wizop pointed out in another thread, DC is a leader and it may hurt us more to dump him than to add talent, kind of like when we dealt Granger for Turner/Lavoy.

IDK the Suns traded Ariza for Austin Rivers and Kelly Oubre and now they are buying out Rivers. I don't think they care about winning games this year. I suppose like you said if they are really ready to dump Josh Jackson they might give us him and Bender who I'm pretty sure they want to dump, but then they only have TJ Warren to play at PF and he's not really a PF.

Sitting tied for 2nd in the east despite going 11 games without Victor I say we sit tight and just make some playing time for Aaron, hang on to our guys. No need to rock the boat.

[basketballwacko2]

The problem is that quality PG is missing part what we need to be contender

contender? we're two games out of first with Toronto coming back to the pack with Lowry out. to me that's contending.

now if you mean we aren't favorites to beat Golden State, who is? if you could waive a magic wand, would any transformation short of DC for Curry or Douggie for Durant make us clearly better than they are?

IF the playoffs system was like the regular season system you would have a point. But do you really think we can beat Toronto in 7 games with the talent on our roster? A clicking Boston?

Who's to say? I think the Pacers are as good as any team in the East, yeah the Raps have Leonard, and Lowry but both those guys have been a bit brittle of late and either could get hurt. Boston has been having injury issues with Horford and Irving and Gordo is not himself that's clear, Brown and Tatum are good youngsters but both seem to be regressing a little, especially Brown.

[Major Cold]

But do you really think we can beat Toronto in 7 games with the talent on our roster? A clicking Boston?

do you think this year's team could win a 7 game series against last year's Cleveland team? we came awfully close last year and I think we're better now.

Sent from my phone.

No I don’t think this team would defeat last year’s Cavs team in 7 games. While they might be better at this point in the season, I still think their turnovers, 3point defense, and free throws make them a worse playoff team in my eyes. But they have the rest of the season to overcome that. The team we have now, playing the way they are, aren’t good enough to get to the Finals

[Wizop]

I still think their turnovers, 3point defense, and free throws make them a worse playoff team in my eyes. But they have the rest of the season to overcome that. The team we have now, playing the way they are, aren’t good enough to get to the Finals

well as I write this we're 23-11 which puts us in 3rd over all 1/2 game ahead of the leaders in the West. I agree though that free throws and turnovers are unacceptable. had we'd fixed those problems in November, we'd have reversed our last three losses and would have the best record in the league.

last year we won every close game. this year we have not. I think you've put your finger on the problems though and lack of talent is not the issue.

[Major Cold]

I still think their turnovers, 3point defense, and free throws make them a worse playoff team in my eyes. But they have the rest of the season to overcome that. The team we have now, playing the way they are, aren’t good enough to get to the Finals

well as I write this we're 23-11 which puts us in 3rd over all 1/2 game ahead of the leaders in the West. I agree though that free throws and turnovers are unacceptable. had we'd fixed those problems in November, we'd have reversed our last three losses and would have the best record in the league.

last year we won every close game. this year we have not. I think you've put your finger on the problems though and lack of talent is not the issue.

Except our turnovers are caused by players doing things they don’t gave the skill to do. And giving up 3pointers is because of both lack of skill (DC) and scheme. But we lack athletic skill and length on the perimeter. Outside of CoJo and Vic we aren’t great enough on the perimeter to actually make a run on the Raptors.

[Wizop]

Except our turnovers are caused by players doing things they don’t gave the skill to do. And giving up 3pointers is because of both lack of skill (DC) and scheme. But we lack athletic skill and length on the perimeter. Outside of CoJo and Vic we aren’t great enough on the perimeter to actually make a run on the Raptors.

not sure I agree completely but even if the turnovers come from trying to do too much. I'd say the solution is discipline. the most talented players will make bad plays if they are reckless.

as for Toronto, Lowry isn't a big guard. nor is van vleet. they are very good when they're healthy and we blew a game when they weren't. we'll meet again. we absolutely could be ahead of them now but for late game mistakes.

our 3 point defense can't be all that bad given the fact that we're holding teams below their averages.

Sent from my phone.

[Indy07]

I'm really enjoying this season and team so far, but I think saying we are dark-horse contenders is getting wayyyy too far ahead of ourselves. I think overachieving this year would be reaching the ECF.

We feasted in December on a very favorable schedule, which is what good teams should do. But looking at a potential 7 game series against someone like TOR, I just don't see any real meaningful advantage.

-They have the better superstar.
-They are better at PG & PF.
-They have far greater depth and lineup flexibility.
-They are crazy long and athletic and they know how to use this ability in ways that have historically made us very uncomfortable (see last year's playoffs w/ double teams or last game against TOR w/ Danny G. & Kawhi pressuring Oladipo).
-They have legitimately 4 defenders (OG / Kawhi / DG / Siakam) who can either switch on to Oladipo w/ no issues or guard him straight up and give him problems

Looking around the east, I know we've had success against MIL. I frankly don't think we are better than the 76ers. We beat them when they were depleted and without depth (no Saric & Roco) and lost to them at home despite a monster Oladipo game.

We do have one shared similarity to Philly IMO - both teams haven't figured out a way to effectively play their 3 best players together at one time. Unfortunately, their 3 best are leaps and bounds ahead of ours. Regardless, this Sunday should be interesting..

I think any meaningful improvements to our ceiling will have to come from learning how to effectively play Sabonis & Turner together for more than 4-6 minutes a game. The numbers have improved a lot from last year, but they are still objectively bad. Plus, our roster construction has left us with some real weaknesses like PG, shot creation, etc. that will be vulnerable in any playoff series. I know Reke was supposed to address some of these but oh well...

Reaching the ECF should be a lofty but realistic goal. I personally think setting our aims beyond that would require us to make a significant roster move. We just don't have enough talent IMO.

[Wizop]

Looking around the east, I know we've had success against MIL. I frankly don't think we are better than the 76ers.

I think we are regular season better because they have a serious lack of depth. whether we are playoff better when they can get away with a shortened rotation is another matter but if we can hold onto the 2 or 3 seed, we may never have to face them this year.