RealGM

Ok, he's not ready to start but needs to be in the rotation. Trade DC or Cojo and get what you can for them. Holiday brings us energy that the other 2 do not.

I'm not sure that you are getting much back for either of those 2. May be better off just keeping them for depth. Agree that Holiday needs to play though.

Pacers_Freak wrote:I'm not sure that you are getting much back for either of those 2. May be better off just keeping them for depth. Agree that Holiday needs to play though.

Hard to say. DC could probably not something small if dealt to the right spot like Phoenix. Could maybe get salary filler and the future Milwaukee 1st if we include a 2nd? Or, if Phoenix is real down on Josh Jackson, maybe we could snag him if we include a little extra value?

But, as I think Wizop pointed out in another thread, DC is a leader and it may hurt us more to dump him than to add talent, kind of like when we dealt Granger for Turner/Lavoy.

Scoot McGroot wrote:

Pacers_Freak wrote:I'm not sure that you are getting much back for either of those 2. May be better off just keeping them for depth. Agree that Holiday needs to play though.

Hard to say. DC could probably not something small if dealt to the right spot like Phoenix. Could maybe get salary filler and the future Milwaukee 1st if we include a 2nd? Or, if Phoenix is real down on Josh Jackson, maybe we could snag him if we include a little extra value?

But, as I think Wizop pointed out in another thread, DC is a leader and it may hurt us more to dump him than to add talent, kind of like when we dealt Granger for Turner/Lavoy.

I know the Suns are looking for a PG, but at 3-13 I can't see them giving up a 1st (all be it a low one) for a one year Collison rental and a 2. Then again.... it is the Suns.

I think we're going to see more of the small ball 2nd unit with Holiday, CoJo, Evans, Dougie, and Sabonis.

Pacers_Freak wrote:

Scoot McGroot wrote:

Pacers_Freak wrote:I'm not sure that you are getting much back for either of those 2. May be better off just keeping them for depth. Agree that Holiday needs to play though.

Hard to say. DC could probably not something small if dealt to the right spot like Phoenix. Could maybe get salary filler and the future Milwaukee 1st if we include a 2nd? Or, if Phoenix is real down on Josh Jackson, maybe we could snag him if we include a little extra value?

But, as I think Wizop pointed out in another thread, DC is a leader and it may hurt us more to dump him than to add talent, kind of like when we dealt Granger for Turner/Lavoy.

I know the Suns are looking for a PG, but at 3-13 I can't see them giving up a 1st (all be it a low one) for a one year Collison rental and a 2. Then again.... it is the Suns.

Without denigrating the suns, I get what you’re saying, both ways. They desperately need a PG, and a veteran like DC would be perfect for them. He’s efficient, plays professionally, and has seemed to really help out the young guys here. He’s not ball dominant, so he can play off ball and let Booker continue to grow. Giving up a 1st seems bad, but it would be a lower 1st and could be offset a tad by adding a 2nd to replace it. And the fact the salary filler would be Bender/Daniels would mean they’re giving up nothing else of value. Maybe it could be changed to just a straight up Phoenix 2nd, as that would likely be in the 30-35 range. But there would seem to be something there that could be had.

Scoot McGroot wrote:
....a veteran like DC would be perfect for them. He’s efficient, plays professionally, and has seemed to really help out the young guys here. He’s not ball dominant, so he can play off ball and let Booker continue to grow.

Given what you've just said, why would the Pacers give up those attributes? I know they (the Pacers) have to consider what is best for their own team first, but it would seem like a real smack in the head to Collison to send him to the Suns, when he can perform the same functions here. Why have him tudor Booker when he can tudor Holiday? Much like Al Jefferson was credited with being a mentor to the bigs when he was here.

Also, the way things seem to happen, just as soon as you trade Collison or Joseph the remaining one will get an injury that makes your depth at the position weaker. Sort of a Murphy's (Troy?) Law.

I'm totally onboard with playing Holiday as the one and Joseph as the two.

Tom White wrote:

Scoot McGroot wrote:
....a veteran like DC would be perfect for them. He’s efficient, plays professionally, and has seemed to really help out the young guys here. He’s not ball dominant, so he can play off ball and let Booker continue to grow.

Given what you've just said, why would the Pacers give up those attributes? I know they (the Pacers) have to consider what is best for their own team first, but it would seem like a real smack in the head to Collison to send him to the Suns, when he can perform the same functions here. Why have him tudor Booker when he can tudor Holiday? Much like Al Jefferson was credited with being a mentor to the bigs when he was here.

Also, the way things seem to happen, just as soon as you trade Collison or Joseph the remaining one will get an injury that makes your depth at the position weaker. Sort of a Murphy's (Troy?) Law.

To allow Holiday to develop on court, utilize Joseph’s defensive presence and schematic abilities, get Sumner some minutes, and reap some value out of Collison’s diminishing talents, obviously.

But yeah, if you want to play Murphy’s law, one could argue that we should acquire 15 players, and have 2 2 ways at all times and never trade anyone in case we might need them at some other time.

Scoot McGroot wrote:But yeah, if you want to play Murphy’s law, one could argue that we should acquire 15 players, and have 2 2 ways at all times and never trade anyone in case we might need them at some other time.

incluiding 2 to 4 players from Europe.

Wizop wrote:I think we're going to see more of the small ball 2nd unit with Holiday, CoJo, Evans, Dougie, and Sabonis.

Yep, this is it, in all likelihood. Holiday pushes Leaf out of the rotation in the second unit. I like Dougie at 4 - creates some mismatch problems like how the Bucks use Ilyasova, Sixers use(d) Saric, etc.

Looking long term, DC has struggled this year based on the eye test...

gmc5032 wrote:Ok, he's not ready to start but needs to be in the rotation. Trade DC or Cojo and get what you can for them. Holiday brings us energy that the other 2 do not.

CoJo is too good defensively. He is not going anywhere.

DC or Evans will be goner by All-Star.

verysalt wrote:

gmc5032 wrote:Ok, he's not ready to start but needs to be in the rotation. Trade DC or Cojo and get what you can for them. Holiday brings us energy that the other 2 do not.

CoJo is too good defensively. He is not going anywhere.

DC or Evans will be goner by All-Star.

I agree with the first sentence. I don’t agree at all with the second sentence.

I think it’s possible we deal Collison close to the ASB if Holiday continues to prove himself and plays a little more mistake free. It might also require Sumner proving himself ready to play on the nba level too.

I don’t see Evans being dealt though. He was a relatively big FA that chose to sign here and here’s other implications from that. Also, when playoff time comes, his improvisation and ball handling will be necessary.

Wizop wrote:I think we're going to see more of the small ball 2nd unit with Holiday, CoJo, Evans, Dougie, and Sabonis.

I think this is your answer. Leaf leaves the rotation and if Holiday has a game where he really has it working, Collison plays less. No sense trading Collison unless someone really makes an offer you can't refuse. IF Collison + value and say Josh Jackson were primary pieces of a deal sure. But, I think we all know the value of a journeyman on an expiring contract is probably no more than a 2nd round pick. Collison has more value to a team with aspirations than he does to a team rebuilding.

verysalt wrote:DC or Evans will be goner by All-Star.

if you're local I'll bet you a pregame beer on that. a season ending injury doesn't count though.

I was saying that he needed to be in the rotation right away based on his summer league performances. I remember many here didn't agree. His strengths (shooting and defense) are perfect complements to the playmakers (Evans, Vic and Sabonis).

SmashMouthRod wrote:I was saying that he needed to be in the rotation right away based on his summer league performances. I remember many here didn't agree. His strengths (shooting and defense) are perfect complements to the playmakers (Evans, Vic and Sabonis).

Honestly, I didn’t agree, but I don’t regret it, based on his early season struggles, really. I think he’s someone that really had to practice awhile to get it right. He was pretty terrible his first several appearances. That might have gotten him turned around mentally.

verysalt wrote:

gmc5032 wrote:Ok, he's not ready to start but needs to be in the rotation. Trade DC or Cojo and get what you can for them. Holiday brings us energy that the other 2 do not.

CoJo is too good defensively. He is not going anywhere.

DC or Evans will be goner by All-Star.

Why Evans... he is perfect 6th man for this team... especially when Oladipo is unavailable... we should give Holliday more minutes, but if we trade DC, we have to get another PG for him... we are PO team, we cant stay on Holliday and CoJo only...

If HOliday’s last two games is the norm, he could assume Tyreke’s role on this team. I’d like to see Vic take another night off.

Agree with those saying he's likely to take Leaf's minutes. I like the idea of running a 3 guard bench with Doug/Sabonis in the frontcourt.

We can really use his shooting if he can keep it up (he does have the best looking shot on the team imo) and he certainly has the potential to be a real nice fit next to Vic going forward.