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I worry that the Pacers will sell out and keep everybody this summer

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I worry that the Pacers will sell out and keep everybody this summer 

Post#1 » by HurricaneDij25 » Sun Jan 13, 2019 6:58 pm

(Namely Thaddeus Young and Bojan Bogdanovic)

I know I had ruffled quite a few feathers on here last September when I said we should save our remaining 2019 cap space on the Tobias Harris/Eric Bledsoe tandem. How I was able to ruffle so many feathers I will never know, but that's water under the bridge.

We're 28-14, and that's great. However, we should observe the current Charlotte Hornets as the top reason as to why we should not invest too much in this current team going forward. They had a surprisingly good year in 2016, to the point they felt compelled to keep everyone, and now they are saddled with retread veterans such as Zeller, Nic Batum, and Kidd-Gilchrist.

In today's NBA, you need scoring power to compete for titles. And yes, nothing against what we have now, but I would have taken a fab four of Oladipo, Sabonis, Bledsoe, and Tobias Harris over what we currently have. And had we hypothetically came up short with those four, then so be it. While Thad and Bogey are solid in the scoring department, they just aren't good enough to be starters on a title contender. Again, they are both are solid players. But, by no means are they worth committing eight figures per season as they both reach the wrong side of 30 by the time their next contracts begin.

And yes, as we currently stand, I would in fact let both players walk for a chance to land Tobias Harris, who has played with 'Dipo before mind you. We're committed to Turner for the long haul and we'll give him a pass (for now) since he's young and still could get better. Thad and Bogey, while solid players, should not be given the same benefits.
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Re: I worry that the Pacers will sell out and keep everybody this summer 

Post#2 » by basketballwacko2 » Sun Jan 13, 2019 10:20 pm

One thing the Pacers management has done is to show financial restraint. This is not the Charlotte Hornets. I don't know how bringing back players who have played so well as Bogie and Thad is "Selling out." I don't believe they will be given bloated contracts that run way too long but depending on what happens. I know that Thad wants a long term contract, that may mean 3 or 4 years depending on how it is structured it could be a win/win.

You mentioned Toby Harris and Eric Bledsoe. I don't care for Bledsoe, but Harris I like. The issue with Harris is that he is no longer a small forward and is he really better than Thad? Does he play defense like Thad? And he'll cost close to 2X as much.
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Re: I worry that the Pacers will sell out and keep everybody this summer 

Post#3 » by Topofthekey » Sun Jan 13, 2019 10:26 pm

I share your sentiments completely; the Pacers shouldn't be complacent, which is a really easy trap to fall into, seeing that the team is currently sitting near the top of the standings

I also agree that current roster is still unsatisfactory; if the Pacers do have ambitions to be a title contender, Bogie isn't good enough to be who we want long-term at SF

Thad though I feel is quite underrated and I'm happy to see the Pacers re-sign him - however, the question with Thad isn't so much whether he is good enough (he is), but rather is he going to be worth the price tag (he's likely looking for one final big contract), and are we OK with paying him that kind of money to (possibly) come off the bench - I suppose it all depends on how the free agency goes

To me though, before looking at free agency, I think the first order of business is to try to make a trade for someone like either Taurean Prince or Robert Covington - Pelicans are looking to trade their 1rp for a starting SF; suppose we trade them Bogie for their 1rp, and then offer both that pick and our own 1rp for either Prince or Covington, and perhaps sweeten the deal with a 2rp and/or Leaf- the Hawks/Wolves just might bite?

With Prince/Covington (say Covington) filling the hole at SF, we can then renounce all our own FAs and go shopping, and this is the fun part

Plan A (Operation Walk the Walk):
I'd start by throwing max money at Kemba Walker. It's a longshot, but sell him on prospects of going to the finals, and of course the Pacers' legendary close-knit locker room culture. If he signs, we're looking at a starting lineup of Myles/Domas/Covington/Vic/Kemba - quite solid I'll say

Plan B-1 (Operation A Young Upgrade):
Suppose Plan A fails, we initiate Plan B-1, which would be to sign one of these three options: Tobias Harris, Julius Randle, and Nikola Mirotic - they're all probably an upgrade over Thad (and they're all younger than Thad Young, hehe), and they probably don't require max money like Kemba, which probably leaves us with enough cap space to follow up with

Plan B-2 (Operation Pacing Wings):
Immediately after signing one of those PFs above, we sign one of Danny Green or JJ Redick

Net result of Plan B, the lineup is Myles/Tobias(or Randle or Mirotic)/Covington/Green(or Redick)/Vic - also a pretty good lineup, especially with Domas still available off the bench
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Re: I worry that the Pacers will sell out and keep everybody this summer 

Post#4 » by SmashMouthRod » Sun Jan 13, 2019 11:27 pm

I agree although I think we would be smart to keep Thad at the right number. I definitely feel upgrades are needed especially at guard and small forward. I think Vic can be used at the 1 so a solid three and D two guard wouldnt be a bad idea if there are no great options at point guard that are attainable. Two good three and D options at the two and three and this team would be even better. I think Vic at the one would allow for him to match up with many of the tough matchups around the league at the one. Or would allow Indy the flexibility of using a bigger longer wing player to defend/disrupt point guards.
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Re: I worry that the Pacers will sell out and keep everybody this summer 

Post#5 » by Wizop » Mon Jan 14, 2019 3:03 am

I'm in no hurry to play fantasy basketball. let's see how the year pays out. I certainly don't want to overpay a player to keep him or worse yet saddle ourself with a long, big contract.

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Re: I worry that the Pacers will sell out and keep everybody this summer 

Post#6 » by basketballwacko2 » Mon Jan 14, 2019 4:57 am

Oh boy another "Let's get Kemba Walker" thread! He's gonna be 29 in May, do you really want to pay him $30 million per year? He has not made Charlotte into a winner in this his 8th season. Granted that is a poorly managed team. I'd rather look somewhere else, and we may have the guy we need on our team now.

I'm not at all in love with Randle, he's improved but is he better than Sabonis? Not in my opinion. Harris and Niko are not Small forwards either so who plays if you get one of those guys for $20 million.

I like Prince but he seems to be hurt a lot lately, he just played tonight on a 12 min pitch count. Also Covington is out with a bone bruise on is ankle he'll be out some time.


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Re: I worry that the Pacers will sell out and keep everybody this summer 

Post#7 » by BooomBaby » Mon Jan 14, 2019 12:23 pm

They'll probably stay the same and keep everyone as is.

That's good if we're trying to stay being an average (mediocre) team.

Our record right now is great and all, but it's inflated thanks to beating up on weak teams like the Knicks and Bulls.

Me personally, I want more than mediocrity.
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Re: I worry that the Pacers will sell out and keep everybody this summer 

Post#8 » by Wizop » Mon Jan 14, 2019 1:29 pm

one thing I have learned to look at in evaluating records is the number of home games played versus road games. since almost all teams play better at home and the schedule will even out, a team who has played more at home can be expected to slide while a team that has played more on the road often climbs. as I write this, Pacers have played 5 more on the road. a home stand starts tomorrow.

by this measure, our record is not inflated. I don't know whether or not we have a lot of games yet to play against other top teams, but if we haven't played them, they haven't played us.

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Re: I worry that the Pacers will sell out and keep everybody this summer 

Post#9 » by Pacers_Freak » Mon Jan 14, 2019 1:59 pm

HurricaneDij25 wrote:(Namely Thaddeus Young and Bojan Bogdanovic)

I know I had ruffled quite a few feathers on here last September when I said we should save our remaining 2019 cap space on the Tobias Harris/Eric Bledsoe tandem. How I was able to ruffle so many feathers I will never know, but that's water under the bridge.

We're 28-14, and that's great. However, we should observe the current Charlotte Hornets as the top reason as to why we should not invest too much in this current team going forward. They had a surprisingly good year in 2016, to the point they felt compelled to keep everyone, and now they are saddled with retread veterans such as Zeller, Nic Batum, and Kidd-Gilchrist.

In today's NBA, you need scoring power to compete for titles. And yes, nothing against what we have now, but I would have taken a fab four of Oladipo, Sabonis, Bledsoe, and Tobias Harris over what we currently have. And had we hypothetically came up short with those four, then so be it. While Thad and Bogey are solid in the scoring department, they just aren't good enough to be starters on a title contender. Again, they are both are solid players. But, by no means are they worth committing eight figures per season as they both reach the wrong side of 30 by the time their next contracts begin.

And yes, as we currently stand, I would in fact let both players walk for a chance to land Tobias Harris, who has played with 'Dipo before mind you. We're committed to Turner for the long haul and we'll give him a pass (for now) since he's young and still could get better. Thad and Bogey, while solid players, should not be given the same benefits.


I like Harris he is a fine player. I've got no problems with him. If we are going to spend money in free agency I prefer it be at PG or SF. We have bigs with a bright future and once Sabonis gets paid would have too much money tied up in the 4-5 position.
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Re: I worry that the Pacers will sell out and keep everybody this summer 

Post#10 » by Pacers_Freak » Mon Jan 14, 2019 2:01 pm

Topofthekey wrote:I share your sentiments completely; the Pacers shouldn't be complacent, which is a really easy trap to fall into, seeing that the team is currently sitting near the top of the standings

I also agree that current roster is still unsatisfactory; if the Pacers do have ambitions to be a title contender, Bogie isn't good enough to be who we want long-term at SF

Thad though I feel is quite underrated and I'm happy to see the Pacers re-sign him - however, the question with Thad isn't so much whether he is good enough (he is), but rather is he going to be worth the price tag (he's likely looking for one final big contract), and are we OK with paying him that kind of money to (possibly) come off the bench - I suppose it all depends on how the free agency goes

To me though, before looking at free agency, I think the first order of business is to try to make a trade for someone like either Taurean Prince or Robert Covington - Pelicans are looking to trade their 1rp for a starting SF; suppose we trade them Bogie for their 1rp, and then offer both that pick and our own 1rp for either Prince or Covington, and perhaps sweeten the deal with a 2rp and/or Leaf- the Hawks/Wolves just might bite?

With Prince/Covington (say Covington) filling the hole at SF, we can then renounce all our own FAs and go shopping, and this is the fun part

Plan A (Operation Walk the Walk):
I'd start by throwing max money at Kemba Walker. It's a longshot, but sell him on prospects of going to the finals, and of course the Pacers' legendary close-knit locker room culture. If he signs, we're looking at a starting lineup of Myles/Domas/Covington/Vic/Kemba - quite solid I'll say

Plan B-1 (Operation A Young Upgrade):
Suppose Plan A fails, we initiate Plan B-1, which would be to sign one of these three options: Tobias Harris, Julius Randle, and Nikola Mirotic - they're all probably an upgrade over Thad (and they're all younger than Thad Young, hehe), and they probably don't require max money like Kemba, which probably leaves us with enough cap space to follow up with

Plan B-2 (Operation Pacing Wings):
Immediately after signing one of those PFs above, we sign one of Danny Green or JJ Redick

Net result of Plan B, the lineup is Myles/Tobias(or Randle or Mirotic)/Covington/Green(or Redick)/Vic - also a pretty good lineup, especially with Domas still available off the bench


I'm not a cap expert and don't pretend to be so this is an honest question. If we traded for Covington and had his contract would there still be cap space for a max offer to Kemba? Doesn't seem like there would be, but again I'm not a cap guy.
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Re: I worry that the Pacers will sell out and keep everybody this summer 

Post#11 » by Wizop » Mon Jan 14, 2019 3:44 pm

Pacers_Freak wrote:I'm not a cap expert and don't pretend to be so this is an honest question. If we traded for Covington and had his contract would there still be cap space for a max offer to Kemba? Doesn't seem like there would be, but again I'm not a cap guy.


I'll lay odds that we do not make a max offer to anyone.
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Re: I worry that the Pacers will sell out and keep everybody this summer 

Post#12 » by pizza guy » Mon Jan 14, 2019 6:06 pm

I've been on board the Kemba train for a long time now, and I'm getting giving up on that. I'm also interested in Bledsoe. And I'd be really interested in Dennis Smith Jr, if Dallas really wants to move him. I'm really starting to lean toward taking a significant risk at some point, if possible. Short of KD or Kawhi deciding Indy is where their heart is, we're going to be among the group fighting for first-runner-up. I'm not sure what that risk looks like just yet, but I think we'll have to do something aggressive if we're going to break into that next level.
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Re: I worry that the Pacers will sell out and keep everybody this summer 

Post#13 » by pacers33granger » Mon Jan 14, 2019 6:15 pm

I'm not sure what the issue would be with bringing guys back, provided we don't hand them lengthy deals (which seems very unlikely). The odds of us doing something major are much bigger with trades than free agency and frankly this crop of free agents is ripe for 2nd tier guys getting way overpaid by small market teams.

Sign the guys to reasonable short deals and then see if something shakes out with a Jimmy Butler-type situation where we may have a chance to nab a real star on the cheap. If Leaf, Alize, Sumner, Holiday, or our first this coming year progress, then we may have a good package to offer along with someone like Bogie and future picks.

It's not exactly the same, but everyone chided Toronto for giving a huge deal to Derozan and he was the piece that got them Kawhi in the end. If they let him walk to LA, that never happens.
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Re: I worry that the Pacers will sell out and keep everybody this summer 

Post#14 » by Wizop » Mon Jan 14, 2019 6:56 pm

pizza guy wrote:I'm also interested in Bledsoe. ...we're going to be among the group fighting for first-runner-up.


but it is Bledsoe's current team that we're fighting with. why in the world would they make a trade that made their immediate competition better?
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Re: I worry that the Pacers will sell out and keep everybody this summer 

Post#15 » by pacers33granger » Mon Jan 14, 2019 6:58 pm

Wizop wrote:
pizza guy wrote:I'm also interested in Bledsoe. ...we're going to be among the group fighting for first-runner-up.


but it is Bledsoe's current team that we're fighting with. why in the world would they make a trade that made their immediate competition better?


I assume he means in free agency.

Other than the fact that he's one of the better free agent PGs available, I don't get the Bledsoe obsession though. He's not a great off ball player, has had some injury concerns, and has had some attitude concerns. I see his fit going about as well as Tyreke's, except we'd have to lock him in for at least 3 years at more money.
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Re: I worry that the Pacers will sell out and keep everybody this summer 

Post#16 » by pizza guy » Mon Jan 14, 2019 7:09 pm

Yeah, I meant in free agency for Bledsoe. He's not a perfect player, but I think he could help move the needle. He's not that KD-level guy obviously, but it'd be a bold move, and I think, in the right direction.

I'd prefer Kemba though. Great guy, potentially low cost, and the Hornets fans on here are about to storm the castle in Charlotte if they don't do something. That team is sinking fast and I keep holding onto a little sliver of hope that they'll decide to blow it up.
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Re: I worry that the Pacers will sell out and keep everybody this summer 

Post#17 » by Pacers_Freak » Mon Jan 14, 2019 7:22 pm

pizza guy wrote:Yeah, I meant in free agency for Bledsoe. He's not a perfect player, but I think he could help move the needle. He's not that KD-level guy obviously, but it'd be a bold move, and I think, in the right direction.

I'd prefer Kemba though. Great guy, potentially low cost, and the Hornets fans on here are about to storm the castle in Charlotte if they don't do something. That team is sinking fast and I keep holding onto a little sliver of hope that they'll decide to blow it up.


I think he gets multiple max offers.
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Re: I worry that the Pacers will sell out and keep everybody this summer 

Post#18 » by pizza guy » Mon Jan 14, 2019 8:15 pm

Pacers_Freak wrote:
pizza guy wrote:Yeah, I meant in free agency for Bledsoe. He's not a perfect player, but I think he could help move the needle. He's not that KD-level guy obviously, but it'd be a bold move, and I think, in the right direction.

I'd prefer Kemba though. Great guy, potentially low cost, and the Hornets fans on here are about to storm the castle in Charlotte if they don't do something. That team is sinking fast and I keep holding onto a little sliver of hope that they'll decide to blow it up.


I think he gets multiple max offers.


I've gotta be more specific here, haha :lol:

Potentially low cost in a trade. His salary is comically low right now, and I trust KP to be smarter than taking CHA's worst contract to make it work. But they've got numerous contracts they'd want to dump if they're going to blow it up, and we could take one of those on, send whatever makes the money work, throw in Leaf and draft picks and have a great shot at re-signing Kemba in the summer. Yes, that contract will be pricey, no doubt. But in terms of what they can expect in a trade, a young player, draft picks, and cap relief isn't too costly for a team like Indy who historically relies on trades more than free agency to make big moves.
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Re: I worry that the Pacers will sell out and keep everybody this summer 

Post#19 » by Scoot McGroot » Mon Jan 14, 2019 9:02 pm

pizza guy wrote:
Pacers_Freak wrote:
pizza guy wrote:Yeah, I meant in free agency for Bledsoe. He's not a perfect player, but I think he could help move the needle. He's not that KD-level guy obviously, but it'd be a bold move, and I think, in the right direction.

I'd prefer Kemba though. Great guy, potentially low cost, and the Hornets fans on here are about to storm the castle in Charlotte if they don't do something. That team is sinking fast and I keep holding onto a little sliver of hope that they'll decide to blow it up.


I think he gets multiple max offers.


I've gotta be more specific here, haha :lol:

Potentially low cost in a trade. His salary is comically low right now, and I trust KP to be smarter than taking CHA's worst contract to make it work. But they've got numerous contracts they'd want to dump if they're going to blow it up, and we could take one of those on, send whatever makes the money work, throw in Leaf and draft picks and have a great shot at re-signing Kemba in the summer. Yes, that contract will be pricey, no doubt. But in terms of what they can expect in a trade, a young player, draft picks, and cap relief isn't too costly for a team like Indy who historically relies on trades more than free agency to make big moves.


Kemba has talked a big game about wanting to stay in Charlotte, so I really don't think they are going to deal him unless they both see no way out of their current dire straits they're in and if and only if they're getting solid value for him.

It'd probably take something around Holiday, Leaf, and a future 1st? Or, a lot less if we're eating a Batum or Biyombo (which I would say no on either).
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Re: I worry that the Pacers will sell out and keep everybody this summer 

Post#20 » by pacers33granger » Mon Jan 14, 2019 9:09 pm

Scoot McGroot wrote:
Kemba has talked a big game about wanting to stay in Charlotte, so I really don't think they are going to deal him unless they both see no way out of their current dire straits they're in and if and only if they're getting solid value for him.



Not that I believe this personally, but there's an argument to be made that he's done so in order to ensure max offers. He's a great player, but not an automatic max guy really. It's only because Charlotte needs to pony up the cash and other teams believe they do too in order to possibly entice him that its a foregone conclusion he gets multiple max offers.

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