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I worry that the Pacers will sell out and keep everybody this summer

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Re: I worry that the Pacers will sell out and keep everybody this summer 

Post#61 » by Scoot McGroot » Sat Jan 19, 2019 11:58 pm

Topofthekey wrote:
Instead, I think what most people are saying is, instead of paying players like Bogie, DC, and Tyreke a combined $33m in salary, why not pay that salary to one single player (or two) who is better than all of them?

Depth certainly isn't the issue here, as we have young players like Leaf, Holiday, and to an extent Alize and Sumner, who aren't getting much minutes

I know I'd MUCH rather pay, say, Kemba Walker $33m, rather than paying those three collectively


Well, if we pay Kemba Walker the combined salary of Bogie, DC, and Tyreke, we still legally have to fill out those roster spots and sign two more players, so it raises costs a minimum of $3m (2 salaries at vet minimum salary). Then, we either are leaning on Leaf, Holiday, Alize, and Sumner to consistently play winning ball night in and out, which is a tough ask. Not saying it's not possible, but it both drastically raises salary rates, as we're likely to use the Room Exception/BAE to fill those 2 other roster spots. Also, I personally don't totally disagree with you. Just raising the valid questions. And adding a huge money long-term contract makes it tougher down the line to re-sign Dom, and even Holiday and Leaf if they pan out.

Topofthekey wrote:As for trades, there are some ideas thrown around in this thread already, but one that I'd really like to see is Bogie to the Pelicans for their FRP - they are on record saying they are looking to deal their FRP for SF help this season; Bogie is an SF, and Bogie certainly can help them this season

But I can hear it already - "oh but Pacers are 3rd in the standings!", or "why trade a starter of a winning team for a pick?!"


It's possible that NOP would deal their 1st to get Bogie, but to match salaries and value, it means we're taking on Solo Hill's extra year of salary, which also means we're down to around $28m in cap space, decently short of a max salary, at that point, we have to deal away either Dougie for absolutely no salary in return, or we are dumping all of Holiday, Leaf, Anigbogu, and Alize for just enough to get in at a max salary.
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Re: I worry that the Pacers will sell out and keep everybody this summer 

Post#62 » by Scoot McGroot » Sun Jan 20, 2019 12:00 am

pacers70 wrote:Ike (20)...reports are that he is learning and improving in Fort Wayne.


I haven't heard anything of Ike improving in a way that he would be playable in the NBA level. He's an old school center. In a bad way. He may have been a great fit 5 years ago, but I'm not sure he has an NBA future in the current NBA, unless we go forcefully counter culture.
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Re: I worry that the Pacers will sell out and keep everybody this summer 

Post#63 » by Vorda » Sun Jan 20, 2019 7:43 pm

OMG.. Bogie to NO for FRP... in the middle of the season... I just dont understand this... what Bogie do to you... just to notice... we still have the worst playmaker in league...
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Re: I worry that the Pacers will sell out and keep everybody this summer 

Post#64 » by basketballwacko2 » Sun Jan 20, 2019 11:43 pm

All this love/lust for kemba walker, best player on a bad team. Not like he's leading his team to the finals. No way I'd give him $32 million a yr.
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Re: I worry that the Pacers will sell out and keep everybody this summer 

Post#65 » by Scoot McGroot » Mon Jan 21, 2019 3:32 am

Vorda wrote:OMG.. Bogie to NO for FRP... in the middle of the season... I just dont understand this... what Bogie do to you... just to notice... we still have the worst playmaker in league...


I think he's merely making a fair point that Bogie is playing very well, and likely to earn a much higher salary and longer contract than the Pacers may look to give him. And if he's played up his value, and we may not be in a position to re-sign him, then we may need to look at moving Bojan for value (a 1st) that could maybe be packaged to help this team (say, along with Collison and our 1st for an upgrade at the PG spot? I mean, we can't expect to upgrade Collison without paying something along with him, right?)
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Re: I worry that the Pacers will sell out and keep everybody this summer 

Post#66 » by Tom White » Mon Jan 21, 2019 2:36 pm

Topofthekey wrote:Instead, I think what most people are saying is, instead of paying players like Bogie, DC, and Tyreke a combined $33m in salary, why not pay that salary to one single player (or two) who is better than all of them?

Depth certainly isn't the issue here, as we have young players like Leaf, Holiday, and to an extent Alize and Sumner, who aren't getting much minutes


If you were to pay a single player a wage equal to the combined salaries of Bogie, DC and Tyreke, where do you get the money to pay starting level players to replace them? If you don't pony up that money (for replacement starters) you are left with starting players the level of Leaf, Holiday and Alize. Then you have to replace those guys to have any depth. The three guys you mention replacing are on pretty close to bargain contracts right now. I don't know if you can replace them with equal value at an equal cost.

By going with your plan, do you know what you wind up with? The Hornets is what you wind up with.
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Re: I worry that the Pacers will sell out and keep everybody this summer 

Post#67 » by Topofthekey » Mon Jan 21, 2019 5:34 pm

Tom White wrote:If you were to pay a single player a wage equal to the combined salaries of Bogie, DC and Tyreke, where do you get the money to pay starting level players to replace them? If you don't pony up that money (for replacement starters) you are left with starting players the level of Leaf, Holiday and Alize. Then you have to replace those guys to have any depth. The three guys you mention replacing are on pretty close to bargain contracts right now. I don't know if you can replace them with equal value at an equal cost.

By going with your plan, do you know what you wind up with? The Hornets is what you wind up with.

Let's assume that keeping in mind that Domas needs an extension soon the Pacers do not bring back Thad and CoJo either, and only re-sign Kyle, we have:

Myles / Kyle
Domas / Leaf
Doug / Alize
Vic / Sumner
Kemba / Holiday

I like the fact that this will give Leaf and Holiday and Sumner ample opportunity to play (I'm in the camp that we may have a diamond in the rough in Holiday)

The starting 5 looks really solid, so I don't think there's any problem there. If you're concerned about the lack of experience in the 2nd unit, we can always sign someone like Trevor Ariza or Patrick Beverly or other vets, who can probably be had on short contracts for $5m or so

And there will also be rookies drafted with the FRP and SRP - who will basically takeover the role of Sumner or Alize this season - playing in the D league, to be called up when needed

I suppose it really depends on your opinion on Leaf, Sumner, and Holiday. For me, I'm optimistic that they are ready to be inserted into the rotation, 15 minutes a game for each of them seems reasonable

And remember this is assuming Pacers do not re-sign Thad or CoJo - if they do decide to splurge a little and bring back either or both of them, depth really isn't an issue

As for the Hornets comparison, come on man, they're starting Jeremy Lamb in place of Vic, and Myles + Domas are miles ahead of whoever they have at those positions

Bear in mind that I'm not arguing that signing Kemba is like the absolute best thing ever, just saying that there's no reason why it cannot be done, from a financial standpoint
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Re: I worry that the Pacers will sell out and keep everybody this summer 

Post#68 » by Topofthekey » Mon Jan 21, 2019 7:34 pm

Anyway, I found the discussion about the financial implications of signing Kemba to a max deal quite interesting, so I did a rough payroll projection for the team for the next 3 years (starting next season), using what information I can find, and making generic assumptions to fill in the holes:

Image

Salary cap and luxury tax projections taken from here: https://www.si.com/nba/2018/09/17/nba-109-million-salary-cap-2019-20-season-118-million-cap-2020-21

Assumptions made:
-Kemba signs, for approximately those numbers
-Vic re-signs for something that starts at $35m after his current contract ends
-Domas signs an extension similar to the one Myles got
-Doug walks after his current contract
-Leaf signs a similar contract to the one that brought Doug here, after his rookie contract ends
-Alize and Sumner sign contracts similar to what the Cavs gave to Cedi Osman, after their current contracts end
-Future rookies drafted sign similar contracts to what Holiday and Alize signed with the team last year
-Kyle re-signs for a 2 year $10m contract at 5m per year, and then walks after that
-Trevor Ariza and Patrick Beverly (or whatever other veteran) sign for one year at $5m each
-Salary cap and luxury tax in 2021-2022 are guesstimates, based on previous year's increment

Conclusion:
The team should hover comfortably at around the salary cap for the next two seasons. Once Vic's current contract expires though, the team's payroll would definitely exceed the salary cap, but not by too much, and would still sit well below the luxury tax threshold. Even then, it wouldn't be a concern, as the younger players on the team now and any future draftees can reasonably be expected to be contributors by that point
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Re: I worry that the Pacers will sell out and keep everybody this summer 

Post#69 » by Wizop » Mon Jan 21, 2019 8:59 pm

Topofthekey wrote:And remember this is assuming Pacers do not re-sign Thad or CoJo


or Boyan or DC or Tyreke. so you are turning over roughly half of a 50 win team.
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Re: I worry that the Pacers will sell out and keep everybody this summer 

Post#70 » by pacers70 » Wed Jan 23, 2019 8:38 pm

Topofthekey wrote:
Tom White wrote:If you were to pay a single player a wage equal to the combined salaries of Bogie, DC and Tyreke, where do you get the money to pay starting level players to replace them? If you don't pony up that money (for replacement starters) you are left with starting players the level of Leaf, Holiday and Alize. Then you have to replace those guys to have any depth. The three guys you mention replacing are on pretty close to bargain contracts right now. I don't know if you can replace them with equal value at an equal cost.

By going with your plan, do you know what you wind up with? The Hornets is what you wind up with.

Let's assume that keeping in mind that Domas needs an extension soon the Pacers do not bring back Thad and CoJo either, and only re-sign Kyle, we have:

Myles / Kyle
Domas / Leaf
Doug / Alize
Vic / Sumner
Kemba / Holiday

I like the fact that this will give Leaf and Holiday and Sumner ample opportunity to play (I'm in the camp that we may have a diamond in the rough in Holiday)

The starting 5 looks really solid, so I don't think there's any problem there. If you're concerned about the lack of experience in the 2nd unit, we can always sign someone like Trevor Ariza or Patrick Beverly or other vets, who can probably be had on short contracts for $5m or so

And there will also be rookies drafted with the FRP and SRP - who will basically takeover the role of Sumner or Alize this season - playing in the D league, to be called up when needed

I suppose it really depends on your opinion on Leaf, Sumner, and Holiday. For me, I'm optimistic that they are ready to be inserted into the rotation, 15 minutes a game for each of them seems reasonable

And remember this is assuming Pacers do not re-sign Thad or CoJo - if they do decide to splurge a little and bring back either or both of them, depth really isn't an issue

As for the Hornets comparison, come on man, they're starting Jeremy Lamb in place of Vic, and Myles + Domas are miles ahead of whoever they have at those positions

Bear in mind that I'm not arguing that signing Kemba is like the absolute best thing ever, just saying that there's no reason why it cannot be done, from a financial standpoint


McDermott as starting SF? No thanks, he couldn't guard my 88 year old mom. :o Just kidding. :lol: Seriously though, his defense sucks.

Alize is an undersized PF not a SF. He is similar to Thad only not as much length and maybe a better 3 point shooter and rebounder.
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Re: I worry that the Pacers will sell out and keep everybody this summer 

Post#71 » by HurricaneDij25 » Thu Jan 24, 2019 6:32 pm

Pacers_Freak wrote:
HurricaneDij25 wrote:(Namely Thaddeus Young and Bojan Bogdanovic)

I know I had ruffled quite a few feathers on here last September when I said we should save our remaining 2019 cap space on the Tobias Harris/Eric Bledsoe tandem. How I was able to ruffle so many feathers I will never know, but that's water under the bridge.

We're 28-14, and that's great. However, we should observe the current Charlotte Hornets as the top reason as to why we should not invest too much in this current team going forward. They had a surprisingly good year in 2016, to the point they felt compelled to keep everyone, and now they are saddled with retread veterans such as Zeller, Nic Batum, and Kidd-Gilchrist.

In today's NBA, you need scoring power to compete for titles. And yes, nothing against what we have now, but I would have taken a fab four of Oladipo, Sabonis, Bledsoe, and Tobias Harris over what we currently have. And had we hypothetically came up short with those four, then so be it. While Thad and Bogey are solid in the scoring department, they just aren't good enough to be starters on a title contender. Again, they are both are solid players. But, by no means are they worth committing eight figures per season as they both reach the wrong side of 30 by the time their next contracts begin.

And yes, as we currently stand, I would in fact let both players walk for a chance to land Tobias Harris, who has played with 'Dipo before mind you. We're committed to Turner for the long haul and we'll give him a pass (for now) since he's young and still could get better. Thad and Bogey, while solid players, should not be given the same benefits.


I like Harris he is a fine player. I've got no problems with him. If we are going to spend money in free agency I prefer it be at PG or SF. We have bigs with a bright future and once Sabonis gets paid would have too much money tied up in the 4-5 position.


If you were going to sign a Top FA at PG or SF, who would it be? Difficult to picture Middleton going anywhere given his comfort level in Milwaukee. Kemba costs too much and even though I like him as a player, I'm just not sure I like him for this team. The one guy at those positions that makes remote sense is Bledsoe, and you couldn't stop bashing him.

I knew all along that Vic was bound to get hurt without a true second scorer. We got blown out by the Philadelphia 76ers at home last week. Obviously I hate Philly with a passion, but they probably beat us in a seven-game series even with Vic.

To me, Harris was the guy to fill our scoring needs. A frontcourt player so be it, for it adds to our strength. One guy was bound to come off the bench anyway, and I fail to see that as a bad thing. Worst thing that could happen is that one of them becomes an intriguing trade chip after year one.

I've edited your post. That kind of language is uncalled for. You have been warned.
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Re: I worry that the Pacers will sell out and keep everybody this summer 

Post#72 » by Scoot McGroot » Thu Jan 24, 2019 6:37 pm

HurricaneDij25 wrote:
Pacers_Freak wrote:
HurricaneDij25 wrote:(Namely Thaddeus Young and Bojan Bogdanovic)

I know I had ruffled quite a few feathers on here last September when I said we should save our remaining 2019 cap space on the Tobias Harris/Eric Bledsoe tandem. How I was able to ruffle so many feathers I will never know, but that's water under the bridge.

We're 28-14, and that's great. However, we should observe the current Charlotte Hornets as the top reason as to why we should not invest too much in this current team going forward. They had a surprisingly good year in 2016, to the point they felt compelled to keep everyone, and now they are saddled with retread veterans such as Zeller, Nic Batum, and Kidd-Gilchrist.

In today's NBA, you need scoring power to compete for titles. And yes, nothing against what we have now, but I would have taken a fab four of Oladipo, Sabonis, Bledsoe, and Tobias Harris over what we currently have. And had we hypothetically came up short with those four, then so be it. While Thad and Bogey are solid in the scoring department, they just aren't good enough to be starters on a title contender. Again, they are both are solid players. But, by no means are they worth committing eight figures per season as they both reach the wrong side of 30 by the time their next contracts begin.

And yes, as we currently stand, I would in fact let both players walk for a chance to land Tobias Harris, who has played with 'Dipo before mind you. We're committed to Turner for the long haul and we'll give him a pass (for now) since he's young and still could get better. Thad and Bogey, while solid players, should not be given the same benefits.


I like Harris he is a fine player. I've got no problems with him. If we are going to spend money in free agency I prefer it be at PG or SF. We have bigs with a bright future and once Sabonis gets paid would have too much money tied up in the 4-5 position.


If you were going to sign a Top FA at PG or SF, who would it be? Difficult to picture Middleton going anywhere given his comfort level in Milwaukee. Kemba costs too much and even though I like him as a player, I'm just not sure I like him for this team. The one guy at those positions that makes remote sense is Bledsoe, and you couldn't stop bashing him.

I knew all along that Vic was bound to get hurt without a true second scorer. We got blown out by the Philadelphia 76ers at home last week. Obviously I hate Philly with a passion, but they probably beat us in a seven-game series even with Vic.

To me, Harris was the guy to fill our scoring needs. A frontcourt player so be it, for it adds to our strength. One guy was bound to come off the bench anyway, and I fail to see that as a bad thing. Worst thing that could happen is that one of them becomes an intriguing trade chip after year one.



What the hell man. You don’t ever have to use discriminatory language. Ever.

And also, get the hell off your high horse. You KNEW Vic was gonna rupture his patellar quad while slipping on a wet spot while rushing back on defense and playing all out all the time because we dont have a “true second scorer”. Nah. Bull. Get outta here with that. Trading away Myles so we can max out Eric Bledsoe wouldn’t have changed this.
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Re: I worry that the Pacers will sell out and keep everybody this summer 

Post#73 » by Pacers_Freak » Thu Jan 24, 2019 7:20 pm

HurricaneDij25 wrote:
Pacers_Freak wrote:
HurricaneDij25 wrote:(Namely Thaddeus Young and Bojan Bogdanovic)

I know I had ruffled quite a few feathers on here last September when I said we should save our remaining 2019 cap space on the Tobias Harris/Eric Bledsoe tandem. How I was able to ruffle so many feathers I will never know, but that's water under the bridge.

We're 28-14, and that's great. However, we should observe the current Charlotte Hornets as the top reason as to why we should not invest too much in this current team going forward. They had a surprisingly good year in 2016, to the point they felt compelled to keep everyone, and now they are saddled with retread veterans such as Zeller, Nic Batum, and Kidd-Gilchrist.

In today's NBA, you need scoring power to compete for titles. And yes, nothing against what we have now, but I would have taken a fab four of Oladipo, Sabonis, Bledsoe, and Tobias Harris over what we currently have. And had we hypothetically came up short with those four, then so be it. While Thad and Bogey are solid in the scoring department, they just aren't good enough to be starters on a title contender. Again, they are both are solid players. But, by no means are they worth committing eight figures per season as they both reach the wrong side of 30 by the time their next contracts begin.

And yes, as we currently stand, I would in fact let both players walk for a chance to land Tobias Harris, who has played with 'Dipo before mind you. We're committed to Turner for the long haul and we'll give him a pass (for now) since he's young and still could get better. Thad and Bogey, while solid players, should not be given the same benefits.


I like Harris he is a fine player. I've got no problems with him. If we are going to spend money in free agency I prefer it be at PG or SF. We have bigs with a bright future and once Sabonis gets paid would have too much money tied up in the 4-5 position.


If you were going to sign a Top FA at PG or SF, who would it be? Difficult to picture Middleton going anywhere given his comfort level in Milwaukee. Kemba costs too much and even though I like him as a player, I'm just not sure I like him for this team. The one guy at those positions that makes remote sense is Bledsoe, and you couldn't stop bashing him.

I knew all along that Vic was bound to get hurt without a true second scorer. We got blown out by the Philadelphia 76ers at home last week. Obviously I hate Philly with a passion, but they probably beat us in a seven-game series even with Vic.

To me, Harris was the guy to fill our scoring needs. A frontcourt player so be it, for it adds to our strength. One guy was bound to come off the bench anyway, and I fail to see that as a bad thing. Worst thing that could happen is that one of them becomes an intriguing trade chip after year one.

I've edited your post. That kind of language is uncalled for. You have been warned.
-Jake


Aw shucks I missed the bad language. I never bashed Bledsoe. I didn't like the idea of letting a 22 year old Myles walk for him. I also think Harris is a very good player. I don't like the idea of spending most of our cap money on 3 guys that play 2 spots. I prefer to look elsewhere.... doesn't make me right. I'm not opposed to the idea of sliding Vic to the 1 and getting a SG type in. Vic is the primary ball handler anyways. Also, with the cap space it opens us up to a lot of trade possibilities, so it may not be a FA.

You don't like me for some reason and that's cool. You seem to think I've attacked you or something. Ask around the board here.... I've disagreed with almost every damn person in here about something or another. But, I'll bet every damn person will say I was always respectful. That is the point of this board is to share ideas.
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Re: I worry that the Pacers will sell out and keep everybody this summer 

Post#74 » by Pacers_Freak » Thu Jan 24, 2019 7:23 pm

Scoot McGroot wrote:
HurricaneDij25 wrote:
Pacers_Freak wrote:
I like Harris he is a fine player. I've got no problems with him. If we are going to spend money in free agency I prefer it be at PG or SF. We have bigs with a bright future and once Sabonis gets paid would have too much money tied up in the 4-5 position.


If you were going to sign a Top FA at PG or SF, who would it be? Difficult to picture Middleton going anywhere given his comfort level in Milwaukee. Kemba costs too much and even though I like him as a player, I'm just not sure I like him for this team. The one guy at those positions that makes remote sense is Bledsoe, and you couldn't stop bashing him.

I knew all along that Vic was bound to get hurt without a true second scorer. We got blown out by the Philadelphia 76ers at home last week. Obviously I hate Philly with a passion, but they probably beat us in a seven-game series even with Vic.

To me, Harris was the guy to fill our scoring needs. A frontcourt player so be it, for it adds to our strength. One guy was bound to come off the bench anyway, and I fail to see that as a bad thing. Worst thing that could happen is that one of them becomes an intriguing trade chip after year one.



What the hell man. You don’t ever have to use discriminatory language. Ever.

And also, get the hell off your high horse. You KNEW Vic was gonna rupture his patellar quad while slipping on a wet spot while rushing back on defense and playing all out all the time because we dont have a “true second scorer”. Nah. Bull. Get outta here with that. Trading away Myles so we can max out Eric Bledsoe wouldn’t have changed this.


Hurricane I know you don't like me but after knowing that would happen do you mind sharing the powerball numbers for the upcoming draw? I'll give you half!
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Re: I worry that the Pacers will sell out and keep everybody this summer 

Post#75 » by wco81 » Fri Jan 25, 2019 4:57 am

Zach Lowe had Jackie McMullen on his podcast and they talked about a lot of teams.

They briefly touched on the Pacers. Jackie said that back when Bird was GM, he was under payroll restrictions. The owners just weren't interested in spending whatever it took to be contenders.

They also said Pacers would probably have to move either Turner or Sabonis because they can't play both of them together more than about 10 minutes a game.

So while they're both promising young players, you trade one to strengthen the team in other areas.
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Re: I worry that the Pacers will sell out and keep everybody this summer 

Post#76 » by Scoot McGroot » Fri Jan 25, 2019 5:21 am

wco81 wrote:Zach Lowe had Jackie McMullen on his podcast and they talked about a lot of teams.

They briefly touched on the Pacers. Jackie said that back when Bird was GM, he was under payroll restrictions. The owners just weren't interested in spending whatever it took to be contenders.

They also said Pacers would probably have to move either Turner or Sabonis because they can't play both of them together more than about 10 minutes a game.

So while they're both promising young players, you trade one to strengthen the team in other areas.


That's the prevailing thought on Turner and Sabonis. I just think when you have to great talents like them, you better damn well figure out how to play them together. Maybe you have to zig when everyone else is zagging, but we need to figure out how to surround them and Oladipo with a team that will fit them. Just my opinion.

And the prevailing thought is that Simon is in the same spot as he was under Bird. We've pretty much always been set against paying the luxury tax, and that was the imaginary "hard cap" Bird operated under.
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Re: I worry that the Pacers will sell out and keep everybody this summer 

Post#77 » by Vorda » Fri Jan 25, 2019 8:03 am

Scoot McGroot wrote:
wco81 wrote:Zach Lowe had Jackie McMullen on his podcast and they talked about a lot of teams.

They briefly touched on the Pacers. Jackie said that back when Bird was GM, he was under payroll restrictions. The owners just weren't interested in spending whatever it took to be contenders.

They also said Pacers would probably have to move either Turner or Sabonis because they can't play both of them together more than about 10 minutes a game.

So while they're both promising young players, you trade one to strengthen the team in other areas.


That's the prevailing thought on Turner and Sabonis. I just think when you have to great talents like them, you better damn well figure out how to play them together. Maybe you have to zig when everyone else is zagging, but we need to figure out how to surround them and Oladipo with a team that will fit them. Just my opinion.

And the prevailing thought is that Simon is in the same spot as he was under Bird. We've pretty much always been set against paying the luxury tax, and that was the imaginary "hard cap" Bird operated under.


Myles and Domas are both centres... they cant play together... they are to slow and to big for PF... we have to decided should we trade one of them for top PG or SF, or we will pay a big Money for sixth man...
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Re: I worry that the Pacers will sell out and keep everybody this summer 

Post#78 » by Wizop » Fri Jan 25, 2019 3:29 pm

Vorda wrote:Myles and Domas are both centres... they cant play together... they are to slow and to big for PF... we have to decided should we trade one of them for top PG or SF, or we will pay a big Money for sixth man...


I don't know whether we'll do it, but I think the coaches job is to figure out how to get his best team on the floor even if it requires an unconventional system. Tom Moore, the old Colts offensive coordinator, was a master of this. I really dislike coaches who tell general managers to only sign round pegs because their system has round holes. if you have square pegs, you need to figure out how to have square holes.

I fully understand that it is hard to fit Myles and Domas into a 2 - 3 alignment. so why not use a 1 - 2 - 2 or a 1 - 3 - 1? I'm talking offense sets, but the same applies to defense - if man to man doesn't work, play zone.

but consider that Turner, Young, and Sabonis all deserve 30 minutes a game and if we give them each 32 we've used up the 96 minutes available for bigs. so each play 16 minutes at 5 with Young at 4 leaving only 16 minutes a game (8 a half) where they have to play together. if you figure that's the last 2 minutes of the 1st and 3rd quarters and the first 6 minutes of the 2nd and 4th quarters, they'd be on the floor together mostly against non-starters. I think that's the direction that McMillan has been going.

bottom line, you can equalize the minutes and then neither of them is a "backup."

I keep saying John Havlicek is in the Hall of Fame even though he always came off the bench.
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Re: I worry that the Pacers will sell out and keep everybody this summer 

Post#79 » by Scoot McGroot » Fri Jan 25, 2019 3:46 pm

Wizop wrote:
Vorda wrote:Myles and Domas are both centres... they cant play together... they are to slow and to big for PF... we have to decided should we trade one of them for top PG or SF, or we will pay a big Money for sixth man...


I don't know whether we'll do it, but I think the coaches job is to figure out how to get his best team on the floor even if it requires an unconventional system. Tom Moore, the old Colts offensive coordinator, was a master of this. I really dislike coaches who tell general managers to only sign round pegs because their system has round holes. if you have square pegs, you need to figure out how to have square holes.

I fully understand that it is hard to fit Myles and Domas into a 2 - 3 alignment. so why not use a 1 - 2 - 2 or a 1 - 3 - 1? I'm talking offense sets, but the same applies to defense - if man to man doesn't work, play zone.

but consider that Turner, Young, and Sabonis all deserve 30 minutes a game and if we give them each 32 we've used up the 96 minutes available for bigs. so each play 16 minutes at 5 with Young at 4 leaving only 16 minutes a game (8 a half) where they have to play together. if you figure that's the last 2 minutes of the 1st and 3rd quarters and the first 6 minutes of the 2nd and 4th quarters, they'd be on the floor together mostly against non-starters. I think that's the direction that McMillan has been going.

bottom line, you can equalize the minutes and then neither of them is a "backup."

I keep saying John Havlicek is in the Hall of Fame even though he always came off the bench.


Now this is a smart and reasonable idea.
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Re: I worry that the Pacers will sell out and keep everybody this summer 

Post#80 » by Pacers_Freak » Fri Jan 25, 2019 3:56 pm

Wizop wrote:
Vorda wrote:Myles and Domas are both centres... they cant play together... they are to slow and to big for PF... we have to decided should we trade one of them for top PG or SF, or we will pay a big Money for sixth man...


I don't know whether we'll do it, but I think the coaches job is to figure out how to get his best team on the floor even if it requires an unconventional system. Tom Moore, the old Colts offensive coordinator, was a master of this. I really dislike coaches who tell general managers to only sign round pegs because their system has round holes. if you have square pegs, you need to figure out how to have square holes.

I fully understand that it is hard to fit Myles and Domas into a 2 - 3 alignment. so why not use a 1 - 2 - 2 or a 1 - 3 - 1? I'm talking offense sets, but the same applies to defense - if man to man doesn't work, play zone.

but consider that Turner, Young, and Sabonis all deserve 30 minutes a game and if we give them each 32 we've used up the 96 minutes available for bigs. so each play 16 minutes at 5 with Young at 4 leaving only 16 minutes a game (8 a half) where they have to play together. if you figure that's the last 2 minutes of the 1st and 3rd quarters and the first 6 minutes of the 2nd and 4th quarters, they'd be on the floor together mostly against non-starters. I think that's the direction that McMillan has been going.

bottom line, you can equalize the minutes and then neither of them is a "backup."

I keep saying John Havlicek is in the Hall of Fame even though he always came off the bench.


I'm with you on being creative. But in a 1-2-2 zone those guys are going to be responsible for covering the corner 3 which kind of puts us back to where we are. In the 1-3-1 one of them is going to have to either be on the wing or the one running the baseline. Not sure those are valid options.

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