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With the recent struggles at the two spot and long term I have been thinking it may make some sense to kick the tires on LaVine. Despite the great early record with Oladipo, It seems Collison and Evans have both struggled next to Vic. Cojo has been up and down which is his norm. Vic plays with the basketball in his hands often enough that the team should consider slotting him in at point guard. Which would then make more sense to add an attack guard like him (LaVine) right next to him. It could be a home run pickup for now and later; considering how Zach can aid in scoring and help finish out the season strong. Additionally the team would have the potential explosive upside of him and Vic together to look forward to in the next season. Possible a Leaf/Holiday, contract filler and a pick gets it done? Thoughts

Collison
LaVine
Bogs
Thad
Turner

Next Season

Oladipo
LaVine
Maybe Bogs???
Thad???
Turner/Sabonis

Don't hate it at all. I'm fearful your offer may come up short with him having 3 years left on his deal.

SmashMouthRod wrote: Possible a Leaf/Holiday, contract filler and a pick gets it done? Thoughts

I'm thinking we don't have contracts bad enough to match salaries for LaVine's long-term deal. He puts up points, but he gives up so many more. He has, quite possibly, the worst defensive instincts and the worst defensive work ethic in the league at the guard spots right now. And there's really no hope for that to improve. He's the Jabari Parker of guards. No interest. Certainly not at the point of giving up our last two 1sts and a future one.

Scoot McGroot wrote:

SmashMouthRod wrote: Possible a Leaf/Holiday, contract filler and a pick gets it done? Thoughts

I'm thinking we don't have contracts bad enough to match salaries for LaVine's long-term deal. He puts up points, but he gives up so many more. He has, quite possibly, the worst defensive instincts and the worst defensive work ethic in the league at the guard spots right now. And there's really no hope for that to improve. He's the Jabari Parker of guards. No interest. Certainly not at the point of giving up our last two 1sts and a future one.

I agree with your assessment of Mr. Lavine. I'm always curious about someone who has been playing on bad teams and probably not held accountable for their short comings on the defense end, and then what happens if they are put into the Pacers culture. Look at bogey for instance, not thought of as a defensive player at all and then comes here and he now has a defensive reputation. It's hard to show up and play D when you are 12-41.

Pacers_Freak wrote:I agree with your assessment of Mr. Lavine. I'm always curious about someone who has been playing on bad teams and probably not held accountable for their short comings on the defense end, and then what happens if they are put into the Pacers culture. Look at bogey for instance, not thought of as a defensive player at all and then comes here and he now has a defensive reputation. It's hard to show up and play D when you are 12-41.

That's true, but recall that we signed Bogey as a FA, on a bargain contract. LaVine is on a largish contract, and we'd have to give up trade assets besides. Different levels of risk there.

I'm ok with acquiring players that may need to be coached up, but they better come cheap, LOL.

Scoot McGroot wrote:

SmashMouthRod wrote: Possible a Leaf/Holiday, contract filler and a pick gets it done? Thoughts

I'm thinking we don't have contracts bad enough to match salaries for LaVine's long-term deal. He puts up points, but he gives up so many more. He has, quite possibly, the worst defensive instincts and the worst defensive work ethic in the league at the guard spots right now. And there's really no hope for that to improve. He's the Jabari Parker of guards. No interest. Certainly not at the point of giving up our last two 1sts and a future one.

Bulls fans gripe about him all the time.

Pacers_Freak wrote:

Scoot McGroot wrote:

SmashMouthRod wrote: Possible a Leaf/Holiday, contract filler and a pick gets it done? Thoughts

I'm thinking we don't have contracts bad enough to match salaries for LaVine's long-term deal. He puts up points, but he gives up so many more. He has, quite possibly, the worst defensive instincts and the worst defensive work ethic in the league at the guard spots right now. And there's really no hope for that to improve. He's the Jabari Parker of guards. No interest. Certainly not at the point of giving up our last two 1sts and a future one.

I agree with your assessment of Mr. Lavine. I'm always curious about someone who has been playing on bad teams and probably not held accountable for their short comings on the defense end, and then what happens if they are put into the Pacers culture. Look at bogey for instance, not thought of as a defensive player at all and then comes here and he now has a defensive reputation. It's hard to show up and play D when you are 12-41.

Bogey wasn't good on defense before he came here and bought in. Lavine is historically bad, and has nothing to build on, and has no interest in ever learning. To me, it's different. And, at almost $20m a year for 3 more years after this one, that's a huge hole to build around, at PG when he's really a pure SG, for a long time, while losing ammo to actually do so.

Scoot McGroot wrote:

SmashMouthRod wrote: Possible a Leaf/Holiday, contract filler and a pick gets it done? Thoughts

He's the Jabari Parker of guards. No interest. Certainly not at the point of giving up our last two 1sts and a future one.

The Jabari Parker of guards!! He must be freaking awesome!

We dont need him... we need guard who can play defense...

Vorda wrote:We dont need him... we need guard who can play defense...

Holiday, Sumner, CoJo, and Vic all defend.

please don't make this into a DC bashing opportunity.

Wizop wrote:

Vorda wrote:We dont need him... we need guard who can play defense...

Holiday, Sumner, CoJo, and Vic all defend.

please don't make this into a DC bashing opportunity.

DC is free agent... only someone crazy would sign him

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Vorda wrote:

Wizop wrote:

Vorda wrote:We dont need him... we need guard who can play defense...

Holiday, Sumner, CoJo, and Vic all defend.

please don't make this into a DC bashing opportunity.

DC is free agent... only someone crazy would sign him

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I'll bet you any amount of money that you would like that DC has a job somewhere next year.

Vorda wrote:DC is free agent... only someone crazy would sign him

that depends upon the price. at this point, I'd bet that DC or CoJo returns but not both. still I'd put the odds of both returning ahead of the odds of neither doing so.

Wizop wrote:

Vorda wrote:DC is free agent... only someone crazy would sign him

that depends upon the price. at this point, I'd bet that DC or CoJo returns but not both. still I'd put the odds of both returning ahead of the odds of neither doing so.

If we want to be contender we will sign better player... DC or Cojo can be on the bench... thats fine to me

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Vorda wrote:

Wizop wrote:

Vorda wrote:DC is free agent... only someone crazy would sign him

that depends upon the price. at this point, I'd bet that DC or CoJo returns but not both. still I'd put the odds of both returning ahead of the odds of neither doing so.

If we want to be contender we will sign better player... DC or Cojo can be on the bench... thats fine to me

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Remember, we can plan on signing whomever we want. That doesn't mean that they will reciprocate and sign here too.

You will be sorely disappointed if you think we will sign a better starter than DC. He's not a good starter, but he's starting level, and this free agency class is lacking in those. Take out Kyrie, Kemba, and Russel who won't be coming here and you've got left:

Jeremy Lin
Terry Rozier
Isaiah Thomas
Ish Smith
Patrick Beverly
Rajon Rondo
Eric Bledsoe
Tyus Jones
Derrick Rose
Emmanuel Mudiay
TJ McConnell
Delon Wright
Ricky Rubio

And a bunch of guys who aren't worth mentioning. DC is better than nearly all of those guys except Bledsoe and maybe Rubio (who has been pretty bad this year though) and Rose. The others are 100% not starting guards in this league.