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2019 Off-Season Questions

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Vorda
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Re: 2019 Off-Season Questions 

Post#441 » by Vorda » Tue May 21, 2019 1:30 pm

pacers70 wrote:
basketballwacko2 wrote:
pacers70 wrote:
Yes to the first question.

I really like Bojan but in my opinion the most successful way for Turner and Sabonis to play together is to have a good 3 and D guy at SF.

We should have a pretty good idea of what FA's we have a shot at by the draft, if not before. Maybe we have to trade back in the draft or move out of it this year to free up some money or maybe we have to let Johnson and/or Sumner go. I don't know, but if we have an opportunity to sign Kemba and get a 3 and D Small Forward we should do it. Ideally we keep our draft pick this year and select a SF to groom as a replacement for Green (or whoever we get).

I'm not completely ruling Bojan out. If we can't find an acceptable 3 and D Small Forward then we should pursue Bojan. For that reason we should keep his cap hold in place until we are sure we have a replacement for him lined up.



Isn't Danny Green a shooting guard?


Green is a SG/SF. He has played most of his career at SG, however, at 6'6" with a 6'10" wingspan and 215 pounds he has the size to play SF. The idea is to use him at SF for a couple of years while our draft pick develops.
Like we developed Solo Hill, Niang, Leaf and others?

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Re: 2019 Off-Season Questions 

Post#442 » by pacers70 » Tue May 21, 2019 1:30 pm

winter_mute_13 wrote:
pacers33granger wrote:
winter_mute_13 wrote:Regarding FA point guards, any thoughts on Ricky Rubio? He's never lived up to the (massive) hype, but I think his playmaking would be very good for this team. And his shooting is considerably improved.


While his shooting has improved, it still killed Utah at times. They were playing with a non-shooter at all times between Gobert and Favors whereas both Myles and Domas have some range. Still, unless we're getting a real stretch 4, it seems like his shooting would be an issue for us too, especially if we bring back Thad.


I hate to say it, but I kinda hope we don't bring back Thad (unrelated to potentially signing Rubio). I think we need a real stretch 4 to unlock Myles' offensive potential, someone like Mirotic perhaps or even just playing Bojan at the 4. No idea what we'd do defensively but maybe the 3 man (who is not on the roster) can be a defensive stud? LOL, yes my flight of fancy is getting more unrealistic.

Anyway Thad was great for us so losing him would suck, but I also feel he's kind of a crutch for Nate and his absence could potentially lead to more offensive oriented lineups. Whether that's a good thing or not is another question.


I agree. As long as Thad is on the team, Sabonis and Leaf will get limited minutes. Let Thad go, move Myles to be the stretch 4, start Sabonis at Center. We then need to find a 3 and D SF.

I have suggested we draft a 3 & D SF and sign Danny Green to fill the role until our draft pick develops. I am open to other ideas though.
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Re: 2019 Off-Season Questions 

Post#443 » by pacers70 » Tue May 21, 2019 1:31 pm

Vorda wrote:
pacers70 wrote:
basketballwacko2 wrote:

Isn't Danny Green a shooting guard?


Green is a SG/SF. He has played most of his career at SG, however, at 6'6" with a 6'10" wingspan and 215 pounds he has the size to play SF. The idea is to use him at SF for a couple of years while our draft pick develops.
Like we developed Solo Hill, Niang, Leaf and others?

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You forgot Paul George and Danny Granger.
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Re: 2019 Off-Season Questions 

Post#444 » by Vorda » Tue May 21, 2019 1:36 pm

pacers70 wrote:
Vorda wrote:
pacers70 wrote:
Green is a SG/SF. He has played most of his career at SG, however, at 6'6" with a 6'10" wingspan and 215 pounds he has the size to play SF. The idea is to use him at SF for a couple of years while our draft pick develops.
Like we developed Solo Hill, Niang, Leaf and others?

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You forgot Paul George and Danny Granger.


PG was 10th pick... Myles to... is there anyone else besides Granger who we developed in last 20 years?

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Re: 2019 Off-Season Questions 

Post#445 » by Pacers_Freak » Tue May 21, 2019 1:41 pm

Vorda wrote:
pacers70 wrote:
Vorda wrote:Like we developed Solo Hill, Niang, Leaf and others?

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You forgot Paul George and Danny Granger.


PG was 10th pick... Myles to... is there anyone else besides Granger who we developed in last 20 years?

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Lance
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Re: 2019 Off-Season Questions 

Post#446 » by Vorda » Tue May 21, 2019 1:45 pm

Pacers_Freak wrote:
Vorda wrote:
pacers70 wrote:
You forgot Paul George and Danny Granger.


PG was 10th pick... Myles to... is there anyone else besides Granger who we developed in last 20 years?

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Lance
We dont need another Lance...

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Re: 2019 Off-Season Questions 

Post#447 » by Pacers_Freak » Tue May 21, 2019 1:55 pm

Vorda wrote:
Pacers_Freak wrote:
Vorda wrote:
PG was 10th pick... Myles to... is there anyone else besides Granger who we developed in last 20 years?

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Lance
We dont need another Lance...

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You asked who we developed. That is someone that we developed.


Ok tell me this. Taking top 11 picks out of it as you did with us. Who has done a better job at developing talent? An easy one is Milwaukee with Giannis, Middleton, Brogdon. Who else? You act like picking in the 20s is easy. At 18 I'd gladly take a Lance type of player. Started a lot of games.
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Re: 2019 Off-Season Questions 

Post#448 » by Scoot McGroot » Tue May 21, 2019 1:57 pm

Wizop wrote:Bird was going to be a senior. Rules then didn't make a pick expire at the next draft. The rule was changed after Boston took Bird knowing he wouldn't sign for a year, I've always thought we should have taken him because fans would've approved and we couldn't afford another salary. We lost Danny Roundfield that year because we were close to broke. But we picked someone who could play immediately. Bird stayed in school as everyone knew he would.

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Re: 2019 Off-Season Questions 

Post#449 » by Pacers_Freak » Tue May 21, 2019 2:08 pm

Scoot McGroot wrote:
Wizop wrote:Bird was going to be a senior. Rules then didn't make a pick expire at the next draft. The rule was changed after Boston took Bird knowing he wouldn't sign for a year, I've always thought we should have taken him because fans would've approved and we couldn't afford another salary. We lost Danny Roundfield that year because we were close to broke. But we picked someone who could play immediately. Bird stayed in school as everyone knew he would.

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I hereby nominate Wizop as the official Pacers Forum Historian!


He had the unofficial title already in my eyes. So I will 2nd it!
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Re: 2019 Off-Season Questions 

Post#450 » by Scoot McGroot » Tue May 21, 2019 2:08 pm

Vorda wrote:
pacers70 wrote:
Vorda wrote:Like we developed Solo Hill, Niang, Leaf and others?

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You forgot Paul George and Danny Granger.


PG was 10th pick... Myles to... is there anyone else besides Granger who we developed in last 20 years?

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I think several teams in the NBA wish they had developed even just one of PG, Myles, Granger, etc., and you want to know more?

20 years? Yes, absolutely. Al Harrington, Jeff Foster, Fred Jones, James Jones, Lance, Myles, Primoz Brezec, Austin Croshere, Roy Hibbert, Sabonis, etc. Working on Leaf, Alize, Holiday. Guys we took from ok to much better? Oladipo, Brad Miller, Ron Artest, George Hill, and others.

Not a whole lot of lottery picks there to develop, mostly because we won an awful lot of games over the last twenty years and had late draft picks, or traded them for win now players.
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Re: 2019 Off-Season Questions 

Post#451 » by pacers70 » Tue May 21, 2019 2:14 pm

Vorda wrote:
pacers70 wrote:
Vorda wrote:Like we developed Solo Hill, Niang, Leaf and others?

Poslano sa mog SM-A510F koristeći Tapatalk


You forgot Paul George and Danny Granger.


PG was 10th pick... Myles to... is there anyone else besides Granger who we developed in last 20 years?

Poslano sa mog SM-A510F koristeći Tapatalk


Al Harrington.

We also developed players that were already in the league like Domantas Sabonis, Bojan Bogdanovic and Ian Mahinmi.

I understand your point. We have not drafted very well nor done a good job of developing who we drafted. Some players we traded before we had a chance to develop them. It's too early to tell about Leaf or Holiday.

People want us to make bold moves to improve but we don't have the cap space to sign multiple stars even if they would come here. Some want us to sign young FA's that are less expensive thinking they will become stars for us. Isn't that the same as drafting someone and developing them?

I think we have a shot at Kemba. If we do, let's get him. That will take a lot of our cap space so we will have to figure out how to fill out the roster from there. My suggestion is to bring in a veteran SF that is a good defender to hold down the starting spot and help mentor our draft pick. If we can find a young FA that is a 3 & D SF that we can develop, that would be fine. I just don't see one that really impresses me.
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Re: 2019 Off-Season Questions 

Post#452 » by Scoot McGroot » Tue May 21, 2019 2:40 pm

I didn't realize that Bojan was almost 2 years younger than Danny Green.
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Re: 2019 Off-Season Questions 

Post#453 » by pacers33granger » Tue May 21, 2019 2:52 pm

Something to consider with Green is that Spurs fans have said that LMA's arrival in SA is what lead to his drop in 3 pt % as LMA operates in similar areas (and the numbers tend to back that up). We'd likely have the same issue with Myles and we're also bad at generating open looks from 3.
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Re: 2019 Off-Season Questions 

Post#454 » by Topofthekey » Tue May 21, 2019 6:40 pm

pacers33granger wrote:Something to consider with Green is that Spurs fans have said that LMA's arrival in SA is what lead to his drop in 3 pt % as LMA operates in similar areas (and the numbers tend to back that up). We'd likely have the same issue with Myles and we're also bad at generating open looks from 3.

In the hypothetical scenario where we sign Kemba and start Domas and Myles at C and PF, Vic and Kemba and Domas are going to get the bulk of the shots, Myles isn't going to get nearly as many touches as LMA gets with the Spurs, Myles' role is going to be a committed stretch 4, which is a vastly different role from LMA's

Danny Green would be an ideal SF in that line up, someone to play defense and help stretch the defense for Vic/Kemba/Domas

The Kemba/Vic/Green/Myles/Domas lineup is expensive but financially do-able

Added benefit of that lineup is that Holiday and Leaf and maybe even Sumner will be given ample opportunity to step up, we don't need them to break out into stars with a starting lineup like that, we just need them to provide decent backup minutes, which don't seem to be too much to ask for
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Re: 2019 Off-Season Questions 

Post#455 » by pacers33granger » Tue May 21, 2019 6:45 pm

Topofthekey wrote:
pacers33granger wrote:Something to consider with Green is that Spurs fans have said that LMA's arrival in SA is what lead to his drop in 3 pt % as LMA operates in similar areas (and the numbers tend to back that up). We'd likely have the same issue with Myles and we're also bad at generating open looks from 3.

In the hypothetical scenario where we sign Kemba and start Domas and Myles at C and PF, Vic and Kemba and Domas are going to get the bulk of the shots, Myles isn't going to get nearly as many touches as LMA gets with the Spurs, Myles' role is going to be a committed stretch 4, which is a vastly different role from LMA's

Danny Green would be an ideal SF in that line up, someone to play defense and help stretch the defense for Vic/Kemba/Domas


You likely run into similar spacing issues with Domas then as he also operates in a similar area. And I doubt the coaching staff would tell Myles to completely change his game and just play like Matt Bonner on offense.

I like Green, but I'm highly skeptical of his usefulness to us. I also see no way he can reliably play SF. And I'm not sure why we would even want him over Bogie as Bogie is the better player and younger.

Really it's all kind of moot if the plan is to sign Kemba and then him as we probably will not have the money to do both unless one takes a discount.
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Re: 2019 Off-Season Questions 

Post#456 » by basketballwacko2 » Tue May 21, 2019 8:59 pm

pacers70 wrote:
basketballwacko2 wrote:
pacers70 wrote:
Yes to the first question.

I really like Bojan but in my opinion the most successful way for Turner and Sabonis to play together is to have a good 3 and D guy at SF.

We should have a pretty good idea of what FA's we have a shot at by the draft, if not before. Maybe we have to trade back in the draft or move out of it this year to free up some money or maybe we have to let Johnson and/or Sumner go. I don't know, but if we have an opportunity to sign Kemba and get a 3 and D Small Forward we should do it. Ideally we keep our draft pick this year and select a SF to groom as a replacement for Green (or whoever we get).

I'm not completely ruling Bojan out. If we can't find an acceptable 3 and D Small Forward then we should pursue Bojan. For that reason we should keep his cap hold in place until we are sure we have a replacement for him lined up.



Isn't Danny Green a shooting guard?


Green is a SG/SF. He has played most of his career at SG, however, at 6'6" with a 6'10" wingspan and 215 pounds he has the size to play SF. The idea is to use him at SF for a couple of years while our draft pick develops.



I like him a lot better at SG. I agree with Scoot that it's unlikely we can sign him, he's gonna want more money than we'd have left even under the scenario you laid out earlier.
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Re: 2019 Off-Season Questions 

Post#457 » by basketballwacko2 » Tue May 21, 2019 9:07 pm

Vorda wrote:
pacers70 wrote:
basketballwacko2 wrote:

Isn't Danny Green a shooting guard?


Green is a SG/SF. He has played most of his career at SG, however, at 6'6" with a 6'10" wingspan and 215 pounds he has the size to play SF. The idea is to use him at SF for a couple of years while our draft pick develops.
Like we developed Solo Hill, Niang, Leaf and others?

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I'd have to think we'll draft better than that. Hill could have been Rudy Gobert, and Leaf could have been John Collins, while Niang is just an unfair complaint since he was about 50th in the 2nd round.
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Re: 2019 Off-Season Questions 

Post#458 » by Scoot McGroot » Tue May 21, 2019 9:29 pm

basketballwacko2 wrote:
Vorda wrote:
pacers70 wrote:
Green is a SG/SF. He has played most of his career at SG, however, at 6'6" with a 6'10" wingspan and 215 pounds he has the size to play SF. The idea is to use him at SF for a couple of years while our draft pick develops.
Like we developed Solo Hill, Niang, Leaf and others?

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I'd have to think we'll draft better than that. Hill could have been Rudy Gobert, and Leaf could have been John Collins, while Niang is just an unfair complaint since he was about 50th in the 2nd round.


The fact that a 50th lick in the draft ever made a roster, let alone is still on one many years later, is a good pick by itself.
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Re: 2019 Off-Season Questions 

Post#459 » by basketballwacko2 » Tue May 21, 2019 9:31 pm

Vorda wrote:
pacers70 wrote:
Vorda wrote:Like we developed Solo Hill, Niang, Leaf and others?

Poslano sa mog SM-A510F koristeći Tapatalk


You forgot Paul George and Danny Granger.


PG was 10th pick... Myles to... is there anyone else besides Granger who we developed in last 20 years?

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You want to go all the way back to 1998?

1998-Al Harrington was a good late pick
1999-Jeff Foster good late pick in trade.
2001-Jamaal Tinsely (draft day trade) looked good for a few min, could have had Tony Parker!!

There have been as many botched drafts as good ones 2006 and 2009 jump to mind, 2006 we took that screw up Shawne Williams, could have had Rondo or Kyle Lowery, and it 2009 we took Hansbrough when Jrue Holiday and Jeff Teague were still on the board both years we needed a pg and took those guys instead. Then there is the more recent screw ups.
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Re: 2019 Off-Season Questions 

Post#460 » by basketballwacko2 » Tue May 21, 2019 9:37 pm

Scoot McGroot wrote:
basketballwacko2 wrote:
Vorda wrote:Like we developed Solo Hill, Niang, Leaf and others?

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I'd have to think we'll draft better than that. Hill could have been Rudy Gobert, and Leaf could have been John Collins, while Niang is just an unfair complaint since he was about 50th in the 2nd round.


The fact that a 50th lick in the draft ever made a roster, let alone is still on one many years later, is a good pick by itself.


Yeah he's not a star but he guy is making 10 times the money I do! Niang can shoot but he's not star, missing on 2nd round picks happens to every team. Passing on a guy like Dremond Green when you're picking at #26 is stupid. I like to complain about picking Solo Hill over Rudy Gobert, but I'll readily admit that I'd never heard of Rudy before the draft.

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