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2019 Off-Season Questions

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Re: 2019 Off-Season Questions 

Post#601 » by Tom White » Thu Jun 20, 2019 8:57 pm

Wizop wrote:I get that you don't get to this level unless you are super-competitive, but a coach should be able to make a player understand that he's one of our top three players but our best chance of winning requires him to come off the bench, I know few of you are old enough to have seen the great Boston teams, but Red Auerbach pulled it off.


It helped that he had guys with the mind-set and character of Hondo. If he was willing to come off the bench, who did the other guys think they were to say no? And related to that, at that time, the only response a player should give when Red said something was "Yes Sir!"
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Re: 2019 Off-Season Questions 

Post#602 » by Scoot McGroot » Thu Jun 20, 2019 9:08 pm

Topofthekey wrote:
Scoot McGroot wrote:And also, guys just take it personally and it’s an ego thing as to who starts over who.

alSO, load management means resting guys so they’d be inactive those nights. It’s not just rotating who’s starting and who’s coming off the bench. They’re still warming up, getting treatment, playing, etc. that’s not rest.

Well, at least when a player asks you what is his role on the team, instead of saying:

"You'll have to wait, you'll get a bigger role if someone gets injured"

You'll be able to say:

"We expect you'll start about 40% of our games"

Yes, I understand that load management is letting players skip some games, but the idea is that if they are scheduled to have their playing time reduced from 30-34 mins as a starter to 20-24 minutes off the bench for certain stretches of the season, their body will hopefully be able to better cope with the strain of playing the entire season, meaning they won't end up needing to skip any games to rest at all, barring injuries



So, not sure if you were aware, generally guys have found it better for their bodies to start games than to come off the bench. Duncan would’ve come off the bench at the end of his career, but his body couldn’t take it. They warm up, stretch, run, shoot, etc, and then having to sit for 20-30 minutes (intros, timeouts, tip, and game play) and their body sometimes reacts worse than if they had started. That’s why load management is solely about giving guys the night off.
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Re: 2019 Off-Season Questions 

Post#603 » by Topofthekey » Thu Jun 20, 2019 9:10 pm

Basically something like this:

Image

Multiply it by 8, and you get an 80 game season

So Myles and Randle will be projected to start in 64 (8x8) out of 80 games (meaning they'll start 80% of our games), and Domas is projected to start 32 (4x8) out of 80 games (40% of our games)
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Re: 2019 Off-Season Questions 

Post#604 » by Scoot McGroot » Thu Jun 20, 2019 9:13 pm

Topofthekey wrote:Basically something like this:

Image

Multiply it by 8, and you get an 80 game season

So Myles and Randle will be projected to start in 64 (8x8) out of 80 games (meaning they'll start 80% of our games), and Domas is projected to start 32 (4x8) out of 80 games (40% of our games)


I think you’re jus over programming this thought process. An injury or sickness and you’ve got a 30 game run for one guy and the other then doesn’t get “lesser minutes” for another 30 game run to make up for it.

Flexibility is the key. Not rigidity.
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Re: 2019 Off-Season Questions 

Post#605 » by Topofthekey » Thu Jun 20, 2019 9:21 pm

Scoot McGroot wrote:I think you’re jus over programming this thought process. An injury or sickness and you’ve got a 30 game run for one guy and the other then doesn’t get “lesser minutes” for another 30 game run to make up for it.

Flexibility is the key. Not rigidity.


Maybe you're right. But whether we realize it or not, there is already a orthodox "schedule" so to speak, which looks like this:

Image

But of course no team follows that to the letter, adjustments are made on the fly when injuries hit and what not

The same thing goes for the alternate schedule that I suggested previously
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Re: 2019 Off-Season Questions 

Post#606 » by Scoot McGroot » Thu Jun 20, 2019 9:26 pm

Topofthekey wrote:
Scoot McGroot wrote:I think you’re jus over programming this thought process. An injury or sickness and you’ve got a 30 game run for one guy and the other then doesn’t get “lesser minutes” for another 30 game run to make up for it.

Flexibility is the key. Not rigidity.


Maybe you're right. But whether we realize it or not, there is already a orthodox "schedule" so to speak, which looks like this:

Image

But of course no team follows that to the letter, adjustments are made on the fly when injuries hit and what not

The same thing goes for the alternate schedule that I suggested previously



Not so much a schedule as starting spots are earned. Guys tend to like it. Now, just add in the advice of training staff and plan in some rest days, and guys will respect that. Doesn’t tend to go over well when guys lose out starting spots to “Wednesday”
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Re: 2019 Off-Season Questions 

Post#607 » by Topofthekey » Thu Jun 20, 2019 9:29 pm

Scoot McGroot wrote:Not so much a schedule as starting spots are earned. Guys tend to like it. Now, just add in the advice of training staff and plan in some rest days, and guys will respect that. Doesn’t tend to go over well when guys lose out starting spots to “Wednesday”

Perhaps you are right :lol:

But another way of looking at it is, if a guy is going to complain that he's scheduled to start in "only" 80% of our games instead of a full 100%, then he's not the kind of guy we want on our team in the first place

Same goes with the backup who complains that he gets the chance to start in "only" 40% of our games
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Re: 2019 Off-Season Questions 

Post#608 » by Scoot McGroot » Thu Jun 20, 2019 9:51 pm

Topofthekey wrote:
Scoot McGroot wrote:Not so much a schedule as starting spots are earned. Guys tend to like it. Now, just add in the advice of training staff and plan in some rest days, and guys will respect that. Doesn’t tend to go over well when guys lose out starting spots to “Wednesday”

Perhaps you are right :lol:

But another way of looking at it is, if a guy is going to complain that he's scheduled to start in "only" 80% of our games instead of a full 100%, then he's not the kind of guy we want on our team in the first place

Same goes with the backup who complains that he gets the chance to start in "only" 40% of our games


I think it’s more that guys want to start in 100% of the games they play, and I think those are guys we want playing for us.
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Re: 2019 Off-Season Questions 

Post#609 » by Topofthekey » Thu Jun 20, 2019 10:20 pm

About playing Myles and Domas together, see picture below for what I hope ideally would happen:



Imagevia Imgflip Meme Generator



Except instead of Danaerys, it's Kevin Pritchard

And instead of dragons, he's yelling "PLAY THEM TOGETHER"
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Re: 2019 Off-Season Questions 

Post#610 » by MUpacersSIC » Fri Jun 21, 2019 12:44 pm

Topofthekey wrote:About playing Myles and Domas together, see picture below for what I hope ideally would happen:



Imagevia Imgflip Meme Generator



Except instead of Danaerys, it's Kevin Pritchard

And instead of dragons, he's yelling "PLAY THEM TOGETHER"


Good luck with that. Should just trade Sabonis now while his value is at its highest. I'm super disappointed they didn't draft Brandon Clarke because I think he could have played with Sabonis or Turner really well. Instead they drafted the replacement for one of those guys. They can't play together, we've already seen that.
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Re: 2019 Off-Season Questions 

Post#611 » by Topofthekey » Sat Jun 22, 2019 10:10 pm

With Domas and now Goga on the roster, I think it's time to move Myles back to PF for good - he did play PF his rookie season after all

I know we tend to think of the center as the best shot blocker on the team, but there are plenty of good shot blockers who played PF most of their careers too, like Kevin Garnett, Elton Brand, and our very own Jermaine O'Neal

Besides, playing Myles at C defensively just matches him up against bruisers like the Steve Adams's and the Jonas Valanciunas's, players whom Myles has struggled to defend

Just commit him to playing PF, and also commit him to being a stretch 4 on offense - with this kind of clarity in his role, I think it will help him a lot

If we're able to accept Myles as our starting PF, and Domas-Goga being our centers, and if Leaf is able to give the team 12-18 solid backup minutes at PF (which I think he can), we are pretty much set at the C and PF spots for the next 4 or 5 years

All we need is an emergency third big man, basically a vet on a minimum contract, and we are free to use the rest of our cap space to sign a quality starting PG and a good backup for Vic
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Re: 2019 Off-Season Questions 

Post#612 » by Scoot McGroot » Tue Jun 25, 2019 4:29 pm

Jeff Sigel of EarlyBirdRights.com has a well thought out take on the Pacers offseason so far and going forward.

https://earlybirdrights.com/2019/06/25/indiana-pacers-2019-offseason-preview-ricky-rubio-myles-turner-domantas-sabonis/amp/?__twitter_impression=true
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Re: 2019 Off-Season Questions 

Post#613 » by Wizop » Tue Jun 25, 2019 5:00 pm

Scoot McGroot wrote:Jeff Sigel of EarlyBirdRights.com has a well thought out take on the Pacers offseason so far and going forward.


Lineups with two traditional centers have mostly gone out of style in the NBA, though when the entire league is zigging one way, it can sometimes behoove teams to zag the other.


there's a lot to be said for trying to force teams to beat you at your game rather than trying to play their game.
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Re: 2019 Off-Season Questions 

Post#614 » by Scoot McGroot » Wed Jun 26, 2019 1:33 pm

Lot of guys and depth with some info to know heading into this free agency tomorrow

https://www.theringer.com/nba/2019/6/26/18759253/nba-free-agency-under-radar-bargain-sleepers
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Re: 2019 Off-Season Questions 

Post#615 » by Wizop » Wed Jun 26, 2019 2:36 pm

Scoot McGroot wrote:Lot of guys and depth with some info to know heading into this free agency tomorrow

https://www.theringer.com/nba/2019/6/26/18759253/nba-free-agency-under-radar-bargain-sleepers


interesting article. both Thad and Bogie made his top 5 bargain list. the other three were Beverley, Lamb, and Satoransky. the article was full of Pacers and players he thinks would be good fits as Pacers.
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Re: 2019 Off-Season Questions 

Post#616 » by IMF » Thu Jun 27, 2019 1:51 am

Houston trying to move off PJ Tucker/Gordon/Capela to get Jimmy Butler.

Should the Pacers get in on this? Could let Bogie walk but take on Eric Gordon and PJ Tucker, who might make great additions.

Could still have enough leftover to sign Rubio. I think this is idiotic of Houston but would be happy to benifet from it.
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Re: 2019 Off-Season Questions 

Post#617 » by Tom White » Thu Jun 27, 2019 2:14 am

IMF wrote:Houston trying to move off PJ Tucker/Gordon/Capela to get Jimmy Butler.

Should the Pacers get in on this? Could let Bogie walk but take on Eric Gordon and PJ Tucker, who might make great additions.

Could still have enough leftover to sign Rubio. I think this is idiotic of Houston but would be happy to benifet from it.


Just remember, Houston is demanding a first round pick in these deals also.
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Re: 2019 Off-Season Questions 

Post#618 » by Scoot McGroot » Thu Jun 27, 2019 2:30 am

IMF wrote:Houston trying to move off PJ Tucker/Gordon/Capela to get Jimmy Butler.

Should the Pacers get in on this? Could let Bogie walk but take on Eric Gordon and PJ Tucker, who might make great additions.

Could still have enough leftover to sign Rubio. I think this is idiotic of Houston but would be happy to benifet from it.


I would value Bogey as a clearly better player, and positional fit, than Eric Gordon here. Gordon is a pure 2 guard. He’d be a help until Vic came back and then he’d go to the bench and play platoon style with Vic. We’d still need to find a PG to start this year. And if we let Bojan walk, we’d be starting Doug or TJ, and I feel like we’d be looking for a starting SF pretty soon. Tucker is a winning kind of player, but does he start ahead of Dom? Does he come off the bench? Hard to say.


Are you then willing to pay a 1st round pick for this package? And then having spent your free agent money On expiring guys and keeping huge hikes at PG and SF?
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Re: 2019 Off-Season Questions 

Post#619 » by Wizop » Fri Jun 28, 2019 6:24 pm

Star reports we're working on a multi-year contract for Sumner. we have an option in his current contract but that's be for a single year. Star suggests he's a 2/3 (not a 1/2) if he adds muscle.

https://www.indystar.com/story/sports/nba/pacers/2019/06/28/indiana-pacers-working-new-longer-term-contract-edmond-sumner/3653550002/
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Re: 2019 Off-Season Questions 

Post#620 » by Scoot McGroot » Fri Jun 28, 2019 6:34 pm

Wizop wrote:Star reports we're working on a multi-year contract for Sumner. we have an option in his current contract but that's be for a single year. Star suggests he's a 2/3 (not a 1/2) if he adds muscle.

https://www.indystar.com/story/sports/nba/pacers/2019/06/28/indiana-pacers-working-new-longer-term-contract-edmond-sumner/3653550002/


It is interesting. If we exercise the team option and keep him, he would be restricted at the end of the year. Clearly, though, they would like to see him here longer. I’m glad we feel strongly either way.

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