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Round 1, Game 4: Pacers vs. Celtics

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Re: Round 1, Game 4: Pacers vs. Celtics 

Post#21 » by Pacers_Freak » Mon Apr 22, 2019 1:31 pm

Wizop wrote:
Tomhomes33 wrote:Well, Nate stays as the ownership will not fire him ,lose money and pay more new coach.


I think he stays too, but I think the reason is his relationship with Pritchard and not a decision by the Simons.

I think the big question going forward remains how effective Turner and Sabonis can be together. today Nate gave a number of minutes playing them with three guards. perhaps that's the future particularly if Bogie gets a big offer.


And the fact this team really over achieved. He has to finish in the top 4-5 voting for coach of the year. I'd be homeless and divorced if you told me the Pacers win 48 and only have Vic for about a third of the season because I would have lost every dollar I have. We got swept by a team that was/is far superior talent wise to what we can currently put on the court.
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Re: Round 1, Game 4: Pacers vs. Celtics 

Post#22 » by pacers70 » Mon Apr 22, 2019 1:57 pm

Wizop wrote:
pacers33granger wrote:we had an 8 man rotation all game outside of the spot minutes from Holiday in the 2nd.


interesting that when Holiday was paired with CoJo, Aaron played off the ball. Paired with Evans, he played point.


I think Holiday could be a great 3rd guard. Bring him off the bench to provide energy and scoring. Offensively he can play the 1 or 2 and with a 6’7” wingspan, he should be a decent defender.
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Re: Round 1, Game 4: Pacers vs. Celtics 

Post#23 » by Wizop » Mon Apr 22, 2019 2:02 pm

Pacers_Freak wrote:We got swept by a team that was/is far superior talent wise to what we can currently put on the court.


depth was a huge problem. look at these numbers

Sabonis -10
Evans -11
Holiday -6
Joseph -11

Bogie must have played some with the 2nd unit as he was -2. the other 4 starters were all plus. sorry, Vorda, but the best number by far was Collison who was +10.
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Re: Round 1, Game 4: Pacers vs. Celtics 

Post#24 » by Topofthekey » Mon Apr 22, 2019 5:21 pm

Sad reality is that Nate got out-coached by Stevens (did a good job neutralizing Domas), but as others have said, Nate will remain, because it is not a very small market thing to do to fire a coach they just recently signed to a new contract

So for better or worse, we're stuck with Nate, at least for now

When more than one player sometimes look lost on the court, some blame has to go to the coach
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Re: Round 1, Game 4: Pacers vs. Celtics 

Post#25 » by Wizop » Mon Apr 22, 2019 5:29 pm

Topofthekey wrote:Sad reality is that Nate got out-coached by Stevens


Stevens is good. his game plan was good. do you think Nate had the horses to counter? if not, why blame him. I'm beginning to think we need to extend Nate so that he knows he has managements confidence and can play the youngsters even though it will cost wins without risky being fired.
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Re: Round 1, Game 4: Pacers vs. Celtics 

Post#26 » by pacers33granger » Mon Apr 22, 2019 5:37 pm

Wizop wrote:
Topofthekey wrote:Sad reality is that Nate got out-coached by Stevens


Stevens is good. his game plan was good. do you think Nate had the horses to counter? if not, why blame him. I'm beginning to think we need to extend Nate so that he knows he has managements confidence and can play the youngsters even though it will cost wins without risky being fired.


We just gave him an extension in September.
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Re: Round 1, Game 4: Pacers vs. Celtics 

Post#27 » by Scoot McGroot » Mon Apr 22, 2019 5:59 pm

Topofthekey wrote:Sad reality is that Nate got out-coached by Stevens (did a good job neutralizing Domas), but as others have said, Nate will remain, because it is not a very small market thing to do to fire a coach they just recently signed to a new contract

So for better or worse, we're stuck with Nate, at least for now

When more than one player sometimes look lost on the court, some blame has to go to the coach


It's not a sad reality to me. I, and many others on this Pacers forum and around the league, have considered Brad Stevens one of the best coaches in basketball on any level for years. To be outcoached by the best isn't really an insult, nor necessarily an indictment on Nate that he should be fired. It's just what it is.
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Re: Round 1, Game 4: Pacers vs. Celtics 

Post#28 » by Wizop » Mon Apr 22, 2019 6:08 pm

pacers33granger wrote:We just gave him an extension in September.


forgot that. thanks.
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Re: Round 1, Game 4: Pacers vs. Celtics 

Post#29 » by pacers33granger » Mon Apr 22, 2019 6:19 pm

Scoot McGroot wrote:
Topofthekey wrote:Sad reality is that Nate got out-coached by Stevens (did a good job neutralizing Domas), but as others have said, Nate will remain, because it is not a very small market thing to do to fire a coach they just recently signed to a new contract

So for better or worse, we're stuck with Nate, at least for now

When more than one player sometimes look lost on the court, some blame has to go to the coach


It's not a sad reality to me. I, and many others on this Pacers forum and around the league, have considered Brad Stevens one of the best coaches in basketball on any level for years. To be outcoached by the best isn't really an insult, nor necessarily an indictment on Nate that he should be fired. It's just what it is.


Tbf to Nate, I think Brad's season this year showed that there is a lot that goes into coaching. Where Brad is a master in certain areas, he was pretty iffy all year long in managing minutes and egos. Seems he may have gotten them to focus, but Smart getting injured could have a lot to do with that too.

It's similar in the sense that Phil Jackson was mediocre at a lot of areas of coaching, but its very arguable that only a handful of other coaches (if that) get the success out of those Lakers teams he did. Now Nate is not even close to Phil in any sense, but he does some things very well that other coaches don't.
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Re: Round 1, Game 4: Pacers vs. Celtics 

Post#30 » by Vorda » Tue Apr 23, 2019 6:49 am

Wizop wrote:
Pacers_Freak wrote:We got swept by a team that was/is far superior talent wise to what we can currently put on the court.


depth was a huge problem. look at these numbers

Sabonis -10
Evans -11
Holiday -6
Joseph -11

Bogie must have played some with the 2nd unit as he was -2. the other 4 starters were all plus. sorry, Vorda, but the best number by far was Collison who was +10.


Sorry Wizop... he is 12 p, 4 a in PO... he cant guard anyone... if we want to be PO team we have to sign better player
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Re: Round 1, Game 4: Pacers vs. Celtics 

Post#31 » by Vorda » Tue Apr 23, 2019 6:57 am

Suns fired Kokoskov... he is much better coach than poor Nate.. .we should sign him...
and we have to find all star player to sign... we should go all in... you cant go in second round with trash like DC, Evans, Wes and similliar... better have Kemba, Vic and youngsters than bunch of crap...

Kemba, Holiday
Oladipo, Sumner
Bogie, Doug
Leaf, Alize
Turner, Sabonis

+ veteran PG and PF
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Re: Round 1, Game 4: Pacers vs. Celtics 

Post#32 » by Vorda » Tue Apr 23, 2019 7:02 am

pacers33granger wrote:And I think Thad may have lost some money this series. He was fine in general, but his deficiencies were magnified (same as Domas) and honestly, we can't have our frontcourt perform the way it did against Boston's. Horford is the best of both teams, but Baynes and Theis are bench players at best.


He lost contract this series... he was bad... missed to many easy shots
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Re: Round 1, Game 4: Pacers vs. Celtics 

Post#33 » by Scoot McGroot » Tue Apr 23, 2019 1:13 pm

Vorda wrote:Suns fired Kokoskov... he is much better coach than poor Nate.. .we should sign him...
and we have to find all star player to sign... we should go all in... you cant go in second round with trash like DC, Evans, Wes and similliar... better have Kemba, Vic and youngsters than bunch of crap...

Kemba, Holiday
Oladipo, Sumner
Bogie, Doug
Leaf, Alize
Turner, Sabonis

+ veteran PG and PF



Because of how the salary cap works, you have to renounce Bojan to clear the cap space to sign Kemba. That then means that the maximum offer we could give Bojan would be $4.7m in the first year with 7.5% raises each year via the Room Exception.

So whom do you choose? Kemba or Bogie? Can’t have both. And those veteran PG and PF’s have to come via the minimum salary exception ($2.3m or less).

We can all agree that some changes are in store. But, remember, we’re legally limited in how we can enact those changes.
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Re: Round 1, Game 4: Pacers vs. Celtics 

Post#34 » by Pacers_Freak » Tue Apr 23, 2019 1:34 pm

Vorda wrote:Suns fired Kokoskov... he is much better coach than poor Nate.. .we should sign him...
and we have to find all star player to sign... we should go all in... you cant go in second round with trash like DC, Evans, Wes and similliar... better have Kemba, Vic and youngsters than bunch of crap...

Kemba, Holiday
Oladipo, Sumner
Bogie, Doug
Leaf, Alize
Turner, Sabonis

+ veteran PG and PF


What in the world could you be basing Kokoskov being better than Nate on? He's been a lifetime NBA assistant and then he was a head coach for one year for a bad team. In fact, they added Ayton and won 2 less games they did the previous year. He may be a better coach... who really knows... but a much better coach than Nate? C'mon man. I know you love the Euros but at c'mon.

P.S. There is something called a salary cap. Don't believe Bogie and Kemba are possible. Scoot would have to correct me on that.
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Re: Round 1, Game 4: Pacers vs. Celtics 

Post#35 » by Scoot McGroot » Tue Apr 23, 2019 1:51 pm

Vorda wrote:Suns fired Kokoskov... he is much better coach than poor Nate.. .we should sign him...
and we have to find all star player to sign... we should go all in... you cant go in second round with trash like DC, Evans, Wes and similliar... better have Kemba, Vic and youngsters than bunch of crap...

Kemba, Holiday
Oladipo, Sumner
Bogie, Doug
Leaf, Alize
Turner, Sabonis

+ veteran PG and PF



I’d be all for adding Igor to be an assistant under Nate. His work with PG’s has been very solid in the past (Dragic, Kyrie, Rubio), and he could do wonders with Aaron. But I’m not kicking Nate away yet. I know Phoenix is a hot mess of leadership, but he also had a ton of trouble “leading” that locker room, especially early on.
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Re: Round 1, Game 4: Pacers vs. Celtics 

Post#36 » by 8305 » Tue Apr 23, 2019 2:38 pm

I don't see any way Kemba chooses Indiana in free agency. With all the free agents and Vic's uncertain injury status this Pacer roster isn't that different than it was in the summer of 2017. May as well embrace that and aim for under-utilized guy or a reclamation project.
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Re: Round 1, Game 4: Pacers vs. Celtics 

Post#37 » by Vorda » Wed Apr 24, 2019 5:57 am

Scoot McGroot wrote:
Vorda wrote:Suns fired Kokoskov... he is much better coach than poor Nate.. .we should sign him...
and we have to find all star player to sign... we should go all in... you cant go in second round with trash like DC, Evans, Wes and similliar... better have Kemba, Vic and youngsters than bunch of crap...

Kemba, Holiday
Oladipo, Sumner
Bogie, Doug
Leaf, Alize
Turner, Sabonis

+ veteran PG and PF



Because of how the salary cap works, you have to renounce Bojan to clear the cap space to sign Kemba. That then means that the maximum offer we could give Bojan would be $4.7m in the first year with 7.5% raises each year via the Room Exception.

So whom do you choose? Kemba or Bogie? Can’t have both. And those veteran PG and PF’s have to come via the minimum salary exception ($2.3m or less).

We can all agree that some changes are in store. But, remember, we’re legally limited in how we can enact those changes.


I dont follow this... how can be max offer only 4,7 mill...

If I have to choose I would take Kemba... but if we sign him for 30 m... we will still have 30 mill more to spend?
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Re: Round 1, Game 4: Pacers vs. Celtics 

Post#38 » by Vorda » Wed Apr 24, 2019 6:01 am

Pacers_Freak wrote:
Vorda wrote:Suns fired Kokoskov... he is much better coach than poor Nate.. .we should sign him...
and we have to find all star player to sign... we should go all in... you cant go in second round with trash like DC, Evans, Wes and similliar... better have Kemba, Vic and youngsters than bunch of crap...

Kemba, Holiday
Oladipo, Sumner
Bogie, Doug
Leaf, Alize
Turner, Sabonis

+ veteran PG and PF


What in the world could you be basing Kokoskov being better than Nate on? He's been a lifetime NBA assistant and then he was a head coach for one year for a bad team. In fact, they added Ayton and won 2 less games they did the previous year. He may be a better coach... who really knows... but a much better coach than Nate? C'mon man. I know you love the Euros but at c'mon.

P.S. There is something called a salary cap. Don't believe Bogie and Kemba are possible. Scoot would have to correct me on that.


Nat has 2 4-0 defeat in last 3 years... that's enough from him... we should go to look for someone else.

Kokoskov was European champion with Slovenia... that is similliar as Pacers win the big final...

I dont Know what happend in Phoenix, but they have some big problems in franchize...
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Re: Round 1, Game 4: Pacers vs. Celtics 

Post#39 » by Pacers_Freak » Wed Apr 24, 2019 1:19 pm

Vorda wrote:
Pacers_Freak wrote:
Vorda wrote:Suns fired Kokoskov... he is much better coach than poor Nate.. .we should sign him...
and we have to find all star player to sign... we should go all in... you cant go in second round with trash like DC, Evans, Wes and similliar... better have Kemba, Vic and youngsters than bunch of crap...

Kemba, Holiday
Oladipo, Sumner
Bogie, Doug
Leaf, Alize
Turner, Sabonis

+ veteran PG and PF


What in the world could you be basing Kokoskov being better than Nate on? He's been a lifetime NBA assistant and then he was a head coach for one year for a bad team. In fact, they added Ayton and won 2 less games they did the previous year. He may be a better coach... who really knows... but a much better coach than Nate? C'mon man. I know you love the Euros but at c'mon.

P.S. There is something called a salary cap. Don't believe Bogie and Kemba are possible. Scoot would have to correct me on that.


Nat has 2 4-0 defeat in last 3 years... that's enough from him... we should go to look for someone else.

Kokoskov was European champion with Slovenia... that is similliar as Pacers win the big final...

I dont Know what happend in Phoenix, but they have some big problems in franchize...


Winning a Euro tournament is not the same as winning the NBA finals. No offense. Otherwise all the NBA teams would go steal the Euro champ coaches.
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Re: Round 1, Game 4: Pacers vs. Celtics 

Post#40 » by Scoot McGroot » Wed Apr 24, 2019 1:26 pm

Vorda wrote:
Scoot McGroot wrote:
Vorda wrote:Suns fired Kokoskov... he is much better coach than poor Nate.. .we should sign him...
and we have to find all star player to sign... we should go all in... you cant go in second round with trash like DC, Evans, Wes and similliar... better have Kemba, Vic and youngsters than bunch of crap...

Kemba, Holiday
Oladipo, Sumner
Bogie, Doug
Leaf, Alize
Turner, Sabonis

+ veteran PG and PF



Because of how the salary cap works, you have to renounce Bojan to clear the cap space to sign Kemba. That then means that the maximum offer we could give Bojan would be $4.7m in the first year with 7.5% raises each year via the Room Exception.

So whom do you choose? Kemba or Bogie? Can’t have both. And those veteran PG and PF’s have to come via the minimum salary exception ($2.3m or less).

We can all agree that some changes are in store. But, remember, we’re legally limited in how we can enact those changes.


I dont follow this... how can be max offer only 4,7 mill...

If I have to choose I would take Kemba... but if we sign him for 30 m... we will still have 30 mill more to spend?


That's a good question. If we sign Kemba for less than the max (which he's unlikely to accept, he'll get offers for his maximum salary of over $34m in the 1st year), then it's possible we could renounce every other of our free agents, and waive Sumner, Alize, and renounce our 1st rounder, or trade it away for a future 1st rounder in order to keep Bojan's, and only Bojan's, cap hold on the books. That would then allow us to sign him using Early Bird Rights for up to $18.375m in year 1 of his deal. However, if we have to renounce Bojan's cap hold in order to sign Kemba for his full contract, then we could, and we'd have less than $10m in cap space to then sign Bojan, since we'd have to use Cap space to sign him, or the Room exception of $4.7m, not the Early Bird exceptions.

If we renounce a player to clear cap space to sign someone, then we are limited to re-signing that player with remaining cap space or a salary exception such as the Room Exception.

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