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Your Offseason Plan

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Re: Your Offseason Plan 

Post#21 » by Wizop » Mon Jun 3, 2019 2:41 pm

pacers70 wrote:The problem with bringing back Thad is that Nate will keep his same rotations.


you don't think Nate and KP are spending hours and hours this summer talking about how to get Turner and Sabonis on the floor together? I'd think Nate is pretty much under orders to give it a try and he's probably even been told that he won't be fired if doing so loses some games.
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Re: Your Offseason Plan 

Post#22 » by pacers70 » Mon Jun 3, 2019 3:12 pm

Wizop wrote:
pacers70 wrote:The problem with bringing back Thad is that Nate will keep his same rotations.


you don't think Nate and KP are spending hours and hours this summer talking about how to get Turner and Sabonis on the floor together? I'd think Nate is pretty much under orders to give it a try and he's probably even been told that he won't be fired if doing so loses some games.


Last summer KP stated that he thought Turner and Sabonis could play a lot together, 25 minutes or more.

I think KP probably encouraged Nate to play them together more to get a better feel if he was right or not. We saw what Nate did.

I think Young is Nate's security blanket and as long as he is on the team, Sabonis and Leaf will not get as much playing time and consequently, Leaf will not develop very quickly and Sabonis will get frustrated at the lack of playing time.

Let Thad walk and Sabonis and Turner can start together and if Leaf has gotten stronger, he can be the 3rd big.
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Re: Your Offseason Plan 

Post#23 » by pacers70 » Mon Jun 3, 2019 3:13 pm

Scoot McGroot wrote:
pacers70 wrote:
Scoot McGroot wrote:

Tobias is a 4. He hasn’t really played the 3 more than situational minutes for almost 5 seasons now. If you sign him, he’s starting at the 4 and either Myles or Dom are going to the bench.


Every place I look, Harris is either listed as a SF, a SF that can play PF or simply a F. I sticking with him as a SF. 8-)


He was a guy who was given away from Orlando and Detroit as they viewed him as a SF, and he wasn't particularly groundbreaking there. When he was switched to PF, he was one of the first of this growing trend of having the tweeners play PF instead, and his career took off. You can absolutely play him at SF, but you'd be wasting your money, as he'd really only be worth half his pay at the production he'd bring night in and out at the wrong position. If you invest the $30-ish million to sign him, you should be playing him at PF.


Well...that just screws up my whole plan. :-o
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Re: Your Offseason Plan 

Post#24 » by Scoot McGroot » Mon Jun 3, 2019 3:33 pm

pacers70 wrote:
Scoot McGroot wrote:
pacers70 wrote:
Every place I look, Harris is either listed as a SF, a SF that can play PF or simply a F. I sticking with him as a SF. 8-)


He was a guy who was given away from Orlando and Detroit as they viewed him as a SF, and he wasn't particularly groundbreaking there. When he was switched to PF, he was one of the first of this growing trend of having the tweeners play PF instead, and his career took off. You can absolutely play him at SF, but you'd be wasting your money, as he'd really only be worth half his pay at the production he'd bring night in and out at the wrong position. If you invest the $30-ish million to sign him, you should be playing him at PF.


Well...that just screws up my whole plan. :-o


Not necessarily. Could you play a long-term rotation of Myles/Tobias/Dom as the 4/5 spots? Absolutely. You could even give Tobias a max while keeping Bojan's cap hold on the books (or renounce him and sign someone for up to around $12m in free agency). PG would be a bit weak with just Holiday and the room exception of $4.7m (maybe Collison would take that for a year?)
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Re: Your Offseason Plan 

Post#25 » by pacers33granger » Mon Jun 3, 2019 3:41 pm

Honestly the plan should be fairly simple. Go after Kemba, Russell (if BKN won't match a max, though I suspect they will), or Brogdon. If that fails, which is likely, make a hard push for Beverly. If that fails, resign DC with the understanding that Holiday will be getting all the minutes he can handle.

Keep Bogie's cap hold and have the max we can offer with it on the table for him. If he's looking for more, give it to him as long as it works with the rest of our moves and isn't too high.

I'm torn on Thad. He's an awesome vet and very good player even with all his warts. But he deserves a bigger contract and role than we can and should offer. If he's willing to be a 6th man essentially, then keep him around I say.

CoJo needs to go. KOQ can obviously stay if he wants to, but he should want a bigger role. Matthews is likely gone for a bigger role too.

Take BPA in the draft. Position really doesn't matter as Nate won't play a rookie anyways and we have no idea how the roster will like in a year or two.

I love the idea of getting a major player, but I fear we won't even have a real shot at that. So the best option very well may be to keep all cap holds and use the full MLE. If Bogie gets a big offer, that screws it up though as he's far and away the top priority of our guys.
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Re: Your Offseason Plan 

Post#26 » by Wizop » Mon Jun 3, 2019 4:59 pm

pacers33granger wrote:I'm torn on Thad. He's an awesome vet and very good player even with all his warts. But he deserves a bigger contract and role than we can and should offer. If he's willing to be a 6th man essentially, then keep him around I say.


I think Thad is going to want more than a one year deal. so change "essentially" to "eventually" and we agree. Thad should be offered a contract that reflects his gradual move to the 2nd unit. if someone else offers him multiple years at starters money, we may have to pass.

I think a lot depends upon Vic's situation. if he's going to have a "rehab year," I think we can be patient. we won't "tank" but we might not be in the fight for home court in the playoffs either. in that case, why spend big bucks on an outsider?
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Re: Your Offseason Plan 

Post#27 » by pacers33granger » Mon Jun 3, 2019 5:03 pm

Wizop wrote:I think a lot depends upon Vic's situation. if he's going to have a "rehab year," I think we can be patient. we won't "tank" but we might not be in the fight for home court in the playoffs either. in that case, why spend big bucks on an outsider?


Yeah Vic by all accounts has been showing great progress but it's still a major injury that will take time. Totally agree that his status will likely guide some moves. KP may decide to force Nate to give Myles a bigger role in the offense and the young guys more chances.
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Re: Your Offseason Plan 

Post#28 » by Wizop » Mon Jun 3, 2019 5:31 pm

pacers33granger wrote:KP may decide to force Nate to give Myles a bigger role in the offense and the young guys more chances.


I think they'll reach a consensus on that regardless of how ready vic is and who gets offers we can't compete with.
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Re: Your Offseason Plan 

Post#29 » by Grang33r » Tue Jun 4, 2019 3:30 am

How much would Brogdon cost?
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Re: Your Offseason Plan 

Post#30 » by HurricaneDij25 » Tue Jun 4, 2019 4:27 am

Romeo Langford (#18).
Re-sign Bojan Bogdanovic (3 yrs, $50 mil).
Sign Al-Farouq Aminu (3 yrs, $30 mil).
Sign Elfrid Payton (1 yr, $9 mil).
Sign Wayne Ellington (2 yrs, $16 million).
Re-sign Kyle O'Quinn (1 yr, $3 million).

Point Guard) Elfrid Payton, Aaron Holiday, Edmond Sumner
Shooting Guard) Victor Oladipo, Wayne Ellington, Romeo Langford
Small Forward) Bojan Bogdanovic, Doug McDermott, 2nd round pick
Power Forward) Al-Faoruq Aminu, T.J. Leaf, Alize Johnson
Center) Myles Turner, Domas Sabonis, Kyle O'Quinn

Will work on a blog post tomorrow to explain my ideas...
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Re: Your Offseason Plan 

Post#31 » by MUpacersSIC » Tue Jun 4, 2019 1:05 pm

Grang33r wrote:How much would Brogdon cost?


I'm guessing at least 4/$72.
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Re: Your Offseason Plan 

Post#32 » by Scoot McGroot » Tue Jun 4, 2019 3:31 pm

Grang33r wrote:How much would Brogdon cost?



Hard to say. I feel like he’ll be Myles territory or decently north. Something from 16-24 wouldn’t surprise me in any way.
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Re: Your Offseason Plan 

Post#33 » by Wizop » Tue Jun 4, 2019 3:49 pm

Here is what I posted here 3 years ago:

Wizop wrote:I'd rather trade up in the second than down in the first. Of course we may need to do both to get who I want. If we could get Brice, Brogdon, and Bolomboy I'd be very happy.


that was the year I liked a bunch of prospects whose names began with B. if only ...
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Re: Your Offseason Plan 

Post#34 » by basketballwacko2 » Wed Jun 5, 2019 3:25 am

Moooose wrote:
I would love to see Domas in the starting lineup with Myles but it has been 2 years now and still ain't working. Unless Domas develops the versatility of Thad Young, I truly believe they would not co-exist in the starting lineup.



I don't feel like they have tried to play them together. A few minutes here and there is not a commitment to them being starters at the 4/5. There is no reason why they can't switch from offense to defense Dom plays center on offense and
PF on Defense, Turner plays PF on offense and Center on Defense. It takes advantage of their strengths. I'd like to see the team try it for more than 4 minutes per game.

I also like Thad a lot, I would love to have him in my 2nd unit.

The thought of TJ Leaf being the main back up PF makes me want to puke. He's a poor man's version of Ryan Anderson, he should have never been the #1 pick and continues to be a week spot on the team.
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Re: Your Offseason Plan 

Post#35 » by basketballwacko2 » Wed Jun 5, 2019 3:59 am

IDK why you people keep talking about Kemba Walker and Toby Harris! Walker is either getting a super max and staying in Charlotto or he's getting a 4 year max from LAL or KYK outside chance is brooklyn. Harris is gonna get a max deal form the Sixers, they traded off major assets to get him and won't let him leave for a discount.

We have to face it the only way is to build through the draft, this is the NBA not Major League Baseball, these players at the top level all want to be in big markets, that is LA, NY, Miami or some team with a real shot at the NBA title. And while we make make some noise and be a pain in the butt by beating some teams that look better than us on paper, we're not gonna make it to the finals in 2020! Probably not 2021 either, unless we find another diamond in the rough like Victor.

I've been a Pacers fan since the old ABA days, I watched games in the Coliseum at the Fairgrounds, I'm 56 years old and I'm a realist. We're gonna win some games but we're not getting these big name free agents. I'll eat crow if we sign any FA's that are Tier 2 or higher, but giving Tier 1 money to these Tier 2 players is just F-ing stupid.

We've been on the treadmill for years because of bad draft picks, which indicates poor scouting or leadership making bad choices. Shawne Williams, Hansbough, Solo Hill, and Plumlee could have been Rondo, Jrue Holiday, Gobert and Dremond Green.

I've been saying that we're not getting any big names in FA, so we have to draft them. I don't advocate tanking, but good to great players are found in the bottom of the 1st round all the time, scouting has to find them. I say we eat contracts and get paid off in draft picks. There are teams that will be paying large tax bills in the repeater tax, let's take their mistakes guys like Evan Turner *** (I know he was here once and didn't work out) but he has 1 year left on his deal. He could be the point guard as we develop Holiday, we get Portlands #1 pick. Would the Wizards swap picks to get out of Mahinmi's contract? What about Miami and the #13 pick? These are all places to look for a deal. We've seen teams use their cap space to get picks and if you pick well you can build a winner. One year of Evan Turner might get us a jimmy Butler it's worth the risk.

Would 2 years of Schroeder be worth the risk to get the 21? IDK about him.
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Re: Your Offseason Plan 

Post#36 » by Wizop » Wed Jun 5, 2019 1:08 pm

basketballwacko2 wrote:The thought of TJ Leaf being the main back up PF makes me want to puke. He's a poor man's version of Ryan Anderson, he should have never been the #1 pick and continues to be a week spot on the team.


he's proving to be more of a 5 than a 4. if we do find a way to give Turner or Sabonis more minutes at 4, Leaf may be a very effective backup 5. he's actually younger than Holiday so time is on his side.
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Re: Your Offseason Plan 

Post#37 » by Wizop » Wed Jun 5, 2019 1:11 pm

basketballwacko2 wrote:IDK why you people keep talking about Kemba Walker and Toby Harris! Walker is either getting a super max and staying in Charlotto or he's getting a 4 year max from LAL or KYK outside chance is brooklyn. Harris is gonna get a max deal form the Sixers, they traded off major assets to get him and won't let him leave for a discount.


agree 100%

WireTap does say we're interested in Russell though. I don't accept the notion that no quality free agent will come here, but I do agree that we shouldn't play in the max and super-max pool.
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Re: Your Offseason Plan 

Post#38 » by MUpacersSIC » Wed Jun 5, 2019 1:42 pm

Wizop wrote:
basketballwacko2 wrote:IDK why you people keep talking about Kemba Walker and Toby Harris! Walker is either getting a super max and staying in Charlotto or he's getting a 4 year max from LAL or KYK outside chance is brooklyn. Harris is gonna get a max deal form the Sixers, they traded off major assets to get him and won't let him leave for a discount.


agree 100%

WireTap does say we're interested in Russell though. I don't accept the notion that no quality free agent will come here, but I do agree that we shouldn't play in the max and super-max pool.


I don't think we get Russell even. Would have to be a Brogdon level player, imo.
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Re: Your Offseason Plan 

Post#39 » by Wizop » Wed Jun 5, 2019 1:55 pm

MUpacersSIC wrote:I don't think we get Russell even. Would have to be a Brogdon level player, imo.


point guard just isn't my priority. I'd happily bring back DC or CoJo to give Holiday a year to show he's in the long term plans.
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Re: Your Offseason Plan 

Post#40 » by pacers33granger » Wed Jun 5, 2019 2:04 pm

Wizop wrote:
WireTap does say we're interested in Russell though. I don't accept the notion that no quality free agent will come here, but I do agree that we shouldn't play in the max and super-max pool.


The other option is to overpay middling talent and continue to shuffle the deck with role players. We've long seen how a team of role players does. It gets to the playoffs, but fizzles out. Taking a chance on Russell seems like a far better option than signing a bench full of McDermotts.

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