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Your Offseason Plan

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Re: Your Offseason Plan 

Post#41 » by Wizop » Wed Jun 5, 2019 2:37 pm

pacers33granger wrote:The other option is to overpay middling talent and continue to shuffle the deck with role players. We've long seen how a team of role players does. It gets to the playoffs, but fizzles out. Taking a chance on Russell seems like a far better option than signing a bench full of McDermotts.


still another option is to find someone who is in a bad situation. lots of Russell talk here, but he was nothing on the Lakers, but blossomed on the Nets. Jermaine O'Neal was buried on the bench before we traded for him. even Bogie has been much better here than with his prior teams - he just needed an opportunity to do what he did best.

and if Vic needs most of a season to be Vic again, we have the option of giving rotation minutes to Holiday, Sumner, Leaf, Alize, and our draft pick. obviously that could take us out of the playoffs, but if Vic isn't Vic that might be a price worth paying for 2020.
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Re: Your Offseason Plan 

Post#42 » by pacers33granger » Wed Jun 5, 2019 2:41 pm

Wizop wrote:
pacers33granger wrote:The other option is to overpay middling talent and continue to shuffle the deck with role players. We've long seen how a team of role players does. It gets to the playoffs, but fizzles out. Taking a chance on Russell seems like a far better option than signing a bench full of McDermotts.


still another option is to find someone who is in a bad situation. lots of Russell talk here, but he was nothing on the Lakers, but blossomed on the Nets. Jermaine O'Neal was buried on the bench before we traded for him. even Bogie has been much better here than with his prior teams - he just needed an opportunity to do what he did best.

and if Vic needs most of a season to be Vic again, we have the option of giving rotation minutes to Holiday, Sumner, Leaf, Alize, and our draft pick. obviously that could take us out of the playoffs, but if Vic isn't Vic that might be a price worth paying for 2020.


I'm not against that option, but it's a gamble too. For every Russel or JO there's ten guys like Hezonja, Chriss, etc.

As for giving Vic a season to get back to form, yeah of course. But this looks to be the last offseason we have the opportunity for real cap space for awhile so we can't just stand pat. That is unless we make a major move like trading Domas to reset the rookie scale clock.
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Re: Your Offseason Plan 

Post#43 » by MUpacersSIC » Wed Jun 5, 2019 4:14 pm

Wizop wrote:
MUpacersSIC wrote:I don't think we get Russell even. Would have to be a Brogdon level player, imo.


point guard just isn't my priority. I'd happily bring back DC or CoJo to give Holiday a year to show he's in the long term plans.


I don't view Brogdon as just a PG I guess. I view him as the perfect fit next to Oladipo.
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Re: Your Offseason Plan 

Post#44 » by Wizop » Wed Jun 5, 2019 4:38 pm

MUpacersSIC wrote:I don't view Brogdon as just a PG I guess. I view him as the perfect fit next to Oladipo.


I get that this glass is less then half full, but I'm a Sumner fan. I'd rather have CoJo back than spend twice the money on a new face even though I was a Brogdon fan back when he was drafted.
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Re: Your Offseason Plan 

Post#45 » by Scoot McGroot » Wed Jun 5, 2019 5:03 pm

If we go after another guard, I’d like it to be someone that could play some situational minutes (like finishing games) with both Oladipo and Holiday. I’d like us to find ways to simply get our best 5 on the court at the same time.
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Re: Your Offseason Plan 

Post#46 » by Wizop » Wed Jun 5, 2019 5:38 pm

Scoot McGroot wrote:If we go after another guard, I’d like it to be someone that could play some situational minutes (like finishing games) with both Oladipo and Holiday. I’d like us to find ways to simply get our best 5 on the court at the same time.


but who are our best five? absent a retool, we start with Vic, Domas, and Myles. I'm not going to go back over all of the theory here, but I think playing two bigs requires the other three to all be fast and maybe even all be guards (unless the other team goes double plodder). if you are with me so far, does it start to feel like Bogie is not the long term answer at 3?

and if we're looking for someone who can play situational minutes with both Oladipo and Holiday, isn't that a SF and not a guard at all?
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Re: Your Offseason Plan 

Post#47 » by Pacers_Freak » Wed Jun 5, 2019 6:52 pm

Wizop wrote:
MUpacersSIC wrote:I don't view Brogdon as just a PG I guess. I view him as the perfect fit next to Oladipo.


I get that this glass is less then half full, but I'm a Sumner fan. I'd rather have CoJo back than spend twice the money on a new face even though I was a Brogdon fan back when he was drafted.


I hope your opinion of Sumner is right and mine is wrong.
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Re: Your Offseason Plan 

Post#48 » by Scoot McGroot » Wed Jun 5, 2019 6:55 pm

Wizop wrote:
Scoot McGroot wrote:If we go after another guard, I’d like it to be someone that could play some situational minutes (like finishing games) with both Oladipo and Holiday. I’d like us to find ways to simply get our best 5 on the court at the same time.


but who are our best five? absent a retool, we start with Vic, Domas, and Myles. I'm not going to go back over all of the theory here, but I think playing two bigs requires the other three to all be fast and maybe even all be guards (unless the other team goes double plodder). if you are with me so far, does it start to feel like Bogie is not the long term answer at 3?

and if we're looking for someone who can play situational minutes with both Oladipo and Holiday, isn't that a SF and not a guard at all?


I mean, that wouldn’t be situationally, that would just be standard lineups? I think a 3 guard lineup is the “situationally” I was talking about. A guy like Brogdon has the length to play with those other two and cover SF’s for runs. I think Russell has some length he could play with both Holiday and Oladipo, too.
Otherwise, Bogie can play a solid 30-35 minutes a night in the standard nba type lineups and we let the games finish with our strongest players on any given night. I think Bogie can be our 3 year answer at SF. I don’t think he’s a 5 year answer.
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Re: Your Offseason Plan 

Post#49 » by Wizop » Wed Jun 5, 2019 6:58 pm

Scoot McGroot wrote: I think Bogie can be our 3 year answer at SF. I don’t think he’s a 5 year answer.


okay, but I think the answer to who follows him comes from the draft and not a high profile, big money, free agent.
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Re: Your Offseason Plan 

Post#50 » by Wizop » Wed Jun 5, 2019 6:59 pm

Pacers_Freak wrote:I hope your opinion of Sumner is right and mine is wrong.


not so much an opinion as a piece of irrational optimism.
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Re: Your Offseason Plan 

Post#51 » by Scoot McGroot » Wed Jun 5, 2019 7:03 pm

Wizop wrote:
Scoot McGroot wrote: I think Bogie can be our 3 year answer at SF. I don’t think he’s a 5 year answer.


okay, but I think the answer to who follows him comes from the draft and not a high profile, big money, free agent.


I don’t think I ever said or implied anything otherwise?
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Re: Your Offseason Plan 

Post#52 » by Wizop » Wed Jun 5, 2019 7:19 pm

Scoot McGroot wrote:I don’t think I ever said or implied anything otherwise?


no, I don't think you did. I'm just planting my flag firmly in the ground that the long term hole is behind Bogie and I hope this year's draft gives us an answer. this is the wrong thread but in no particular order Clarke, Washington, Williams, Thybulle, Okpala, and Okeke are interesting.
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Re: Your Offseason Plan 

Post#53 » by Scoot McGroot » Wed Jun 5, 2019 7:33 pm

Wizop wrote:
Scoot McGroot wrote:I don’t think I ever said or implied anything otherwise?


no, I don't think you did. I'm just planting my flag firmly in the ground that the long term hole is behind Bogie and I hope this year's draft gives us an answer. this is the wrong thread but in no particular order Clarke, Washington, Williams, Thybulle, Okpala, and Okeke are interesting.

I’m generally best player available, so long as he can do anything other than “just play SG”.
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Re: Your Offseason Plan 

Post#54 » by pacers33granger » Fri Jun 7, 2019 11:34 pm

So the Spurs may be interested in dumping Derozan to chase Bojan reportedly per Bobby Marks. I think they would be a legit threat to sign him if they can make a competitive offer.
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Re: Your Offseason Plan 

Post#55 » by Wizop » Sat Jun 8, 2019 3:02 am

pacers33granger wrote:So the Spurs may be interested in dumping Derozan to chase Bojan reportedly per Bobby Marks. I think they would be a legit threat to sign him if they can make a competitive offer.
salary or talent?

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Re: Your Offseason Plan 

Post#56 » by Boneman2 » Sat Jun 8, 2019 6:26 am

HurricaneDij25 wrote:Romeo Langford (#18).
Re-sign Bojan Bogdanovic (3 yrs, $50 mil).
Sign Al-Farouq Aminu (3 yrs, $30 mil).
Sign Elfrid Payton (1 yr, $9 mil).
Sign Wayne Ellington (2 yrs, $16 million).
Re-sign Kyle O'Quinn (1 yr, $3 million).

Point Guard) Elfrid Payton, Aaron Holiday, Edmond Sumner
Shooting Guard) Victor Oladipo, Wayne Ellington, Romeo Langford
Small Forward) Bojan Bogdanovic, Doug McDermott, 2nd round pick
Power Forward) Al-Faoruq Aminu, T.J. Leaf, Alize Johnson
Center) Myles Turner, Domas Sabonis, Kyle O'Quinn

Will work on a blog post tomorrow to explain my ideas...


Aminu might be a nice under the radar signing as a replacement for Thad and cheaper too.

I also like Bojan, Elf, O'Quinn and Romeo, Ellington not so much. With Oladipo, Romeo and Sumner he wouldn't be needed. As a three-point specialist, maybe, but we've got Doug for 2 more seasons, 2 more seasons.
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Re: Your Offseason Plan 

Post#57 » by 8305 » Sun Jun 9, 2019 1:42 pm

My plan dovetails with the theory that we need to develop our young guys.

I thought Leaf in the abbreviated minutes he got last year looked promising. His shot took the season off but he looked competent on defense (a significant improvement) and very capable of scoring around the basket. I'm willing to assume his shot will return with steady minutes. Couple that with the rest of his game that was visible last year and I think you have a pretty good player. For that reason I"m seeing a three man rotation (Turner, Sabonis, Leaf) at the 4 and 5.

With that rotation i"m seeing some three guard lineups and that notion further drives the need to upgrade the guard position. For me Ricky Rubio is an upgrade over Collison and Joseph. He is a far better creator than anything we've had going back to Mark Jackson. Don't know if he's there yet but, I like Holiday as the off the bench third guard. If he's not up to that he only gets backup minutes at pg.

If we aren't bringing back a shooting pg that makes keeping Bojan pretty important. So for me that's a high priority. I'd like to think Rubio and Bojan would leave enough cap space to add another mid level type guy. I"m thinking Justin Holiday (a younger 3 and D wing with more size than Wes Matthews).

PG Rubio, Holiday, Sumner
SG Vic, A. Holiday, J. Holiday, Sumner
SF Bojan, J. Holiday, D. MacD
PF Leaf, Sabonis, Bogan
C Turner, Sabonis, O'Quinn

I'm still bringing Sabonis off the bench but assuming he gets more minutes than Leaf. Depending on performance, Sumner, MacD, J. Holiday could get more than traditional bench minutes.

No splash here but this is feasible and I think the pieces fit.
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Re: Your Offseason Plan 

Post#58 » by MUpacersSIC » Sun Jun 9, 2019 2:19 pm

8305 wrote:My plan dovetails with the theory that we need to develop our young guys.

I thought Leaf in the abbreviated minutes he got last year looked promising. His shot took the season off but he looked competent on defense (a significant improvement) and very capable of scoring around the basket. I'm willing to assume his shot will return with steady minutes. Couple that with the rest of his game that was visible last year and I think you have a pretty good player. For that reason I"m seeing a three man rotation (Turner, Sabonis, Leaf) at the 4 and 5.

With that rotation i"m seeing some three guard lineups and that notion further drives the need to upgrade the guard position. For me Ricky Rubio is an upgrade over Collison and Joseph. He is a far better creator than anything we've had going back to Mark Jackson. Don't know if he's there yet but, I like Holiday as the off the bench third guard. If he's not up to that he only gets backup minutes at pg.

If we aren't bringing back a shooting pg that makes keeping Bojan pretty important. So for me that's a high priority. I'd like to think Rubio and Bojan would leave enough cap space to add another mid level type guy. I"m thinking Justin Holiday (a younger 3 and D wing with more size than Wes Matthews).

PG Rubio, Holiday, Sumner
SG Vic, A. Holiday, J. Holiday, Sumner
SF Bojan, J. Holiday, D. MacD
PF Leaf, Sabonis, Bogan
C Turner, Sabonis, O'Quinn

I'm still bringing Sabonis off the bench but assuming he gets more minutes than Leaf. Depending on performance, Sumner, MacD, J. Holiday could get more than traditional bench minutes.

No splash here but this is feasible and I think the pieces fit.


I would be incredibly disappointed with this offseason. It's time to take some big swings, and this it the opposite. I'm tired of the Pacers making wrong move after wrong move. Either go big, or sell everything and start over. If you aren't going to start Domas and Turner together, you HAVE to trade one of them for a young wing (Jaylen Brown type). Target Brogdon or Russell in Free Agency, replace the C you trade (Myles or Domas) with Kevon Looney, draft a wing player with the best 3-D potential, and sign a couple more shooters/defenders to round out the bench. The Pacers have to go after 2nd tier free agents and build through the draft. They should have been doing what Atlanta is: selling your cap space for picks so you have as many swings as possible. This doesn't seem that difficult, but there definitely needs to be a change in mentality by the front office.
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Re: Your Offseason Plan 

Post#59 » by Wizop » Sun Jun 9, 2019 3:32 pm

I think a roster needs 5 bigs who can defend the post. Turner, Sabonis, and Leaf make 3 if Thad and Kyle are gone. Now perhaps Alize and a draft pick are enough but I'm dubious.

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Re: Your Offseason Plan 

Post#60 » by Scoot McGroot » Sun Jun 9, 2019 7:58 pm

Wizop wrote:I think a roster needs 5 bigs who can defend the post. Turner, Sabonis, and Leaf make 3 if Thad and Kyle are gone. Now perhaps Alize and a draft pick are enough but I'm dubious.

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I would agree. In some of these, you’re a Myles or Dom injury away (even relatively short term like a week or a month) from just playing some miserable ball up front and losing a ton of games.

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