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With 18th Pick, Pacers Select Goga Bitadze

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Re: With 18th Pick, Pacers Select Goga Bitadze 

Post#101 » by Grang33r » Thu Jul 11, 2019 4:15 am

ColorWerx wrote:Pacers.com roster has Goga going with #88...which is...different.

https://www.nba.com/pacers/roster

why in the world would he choose something like that?
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Re: With 18th Pick, Pacers Select Goga Bitadze 

Post#102 » by Nuntius » Thu Jul 11, 2019 11:02 am

Grang33r wrote:
ColorWerx wrote:Pacers.com roster has Goga going with #88...which is...different.

https://www.nba.com/pacers/roster

why in the world would he choose something like that?


Two same numbers are fun. They make for some great synergy. When I create a player in 2k, I often give them numbers like that. #55 is my go-to (to honor Roy) but #77 and #33 are often in play.
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Re: With 18th Pick, Pacers Select Goga Bitadze 

Post#103 » by Boneman2 » Thu Jul 11, 2019 9:51 pm

#88 to Indianapolis is synonymous with Colts' great Marvin Harrison. It's a sign.
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Re: With 18th Pick, Pacers Select Goga Bitadze 

Post#104 » by Grang33r » Fri Jul 12, 2019 4:56 am

Nuntius wrote:
Grang33r wrote:
ColorWerx wrote:Pacers.com roster has Goga going with #88...which is...different.

https://www.nba.com/pacers/roster

why in the world would he choose something like that?


Two same numbers are fun. They make for some great synergy. When I create a player in 2k, I often give them numbers like that. #55 is my go-to (to honor Roy) but #77 and #33 are often in play.


As a hockey fan, i love it when players choose high numbers. In basketball, i prefer small numbers. I don't know why, i can't explain it. haha

Either way, as long as he produces i don't care what number he wears to be honest.

Quick research shows only he's the 6th player in history to wear 88. Batum, Eyenga, Shved, Bjelica and Walker are the others.
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Re: With 18th Pick, Pacers Select Goga Bitadze 

Post#105 » by Nuntius » Fri Jul 12, 2019 5:37 am

Grang33r wrote:
Nuntius wrote:
Grang33r wrote:why in the world would he choose something like that?


Two same numbers are fun. They make for some great synergy. When I create a player in 2k, I often give them numbers like that. #55 is my go-to (to honor Roy) but #77 and #33 are often in play.


As a hockey fan, i love it when players choose high numbers. In basketball, i prefer small numbers. I don't know why, i can't explain it. haha


It's a matter of preference. It doesn't always need an explanation :lol:

Grang33r wrote:Either way, as long as he produces i don't care what number he wears to be honest.


Oh, definitely. I just hope he plays. I know that he'll produce if he gets minutes :)

Grang33r wrote:Quick research shows only he's the 6th player in history to wear 88. Batum, Eyenga, Shved, Bjelica and Walker are the others.


Ah, cool. Thanks for the quick research!
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Re: With 18th Pick, Pacers Select Goga Bitadze 

Post#106 » by Scoot McGroot » Fri Jul 12, 2019 4:42 pm

Good news!

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Re: With 18th Pick, Pacers Select Goga Bitadze 

Post#107 » by Wizop » Fri Jul 12, 2019 7:28 pm

I used to think there was a rule that if the number was 10 or more the second digit had to be 5 or less. if it was once a rule, it isn't now. the issue was the ref's hand signals.

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Re: With 18th Pick, Pacers Select Goga Bitadze 

Post#108 » by Topofthekey » Sat Jul 13, 2019 3:39 am

30, 31, 34, 35

I think next two numbers in that sequence are 38, 39
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Re: With 18th Pick, Pacers Select Goga Bitadze 

Post#109 » by Grang33r » Sat Jul 13, 2019 5:12 am

McMillan said during tonight’s summer league telecast that he’s headed back to Indy and will join Goga next week and help him get his game up to their level.
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Re: With 18th Pick, Pacers Select Goga Bitadze 

Post#110 » by reflex35 » Sat Jul 13, 2019 9:53 am

I don't understand why would you take Goga, when you have Myles and Domas and you can't even figure that thing out?
Myles is under a contract. Right now Pacers can't offer Domas the same contract as they did to Myles as they will be in luxury tax territory. And if you're fair Domas and Myles contracts should be more or less the same.

So the writing is on a wall. Domas will be traded. They will try in the beginning of the season to put Sabonis at 4. That won't work as he is a natural 5, and Domas will probably won't be a Pacer in a year.

Especially if Goga proves to be a good player he is.
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Re: With 18th Pick, Pacers Select Goga Bitadze 

Post#111 » by winter_mute_13 » Sat Jul 13, 2019 11:21 am

reflex35 wrote:Myles is under a contract. Right now Pacers can't offer Domas the same contract as they did to Myles as they will be in luxury tax territory. And if you're fair Domas and Myles contracts should be more or less the same.


Not true at all. Pacers can give Domas a max contract and not be in luxury tax.

In fact, I expect Domas to get a larger contract than Myles due to market conditions. In retrospect, Myles signed a bargain deal.

reflex35 wrote:So the writing is on a wall. Domas will be traded. They will try in the beginning of the season to put Sabonis at 4. That won't work as he is a natural 5, and Domas will probably won't be a Pacer in a year.

Especially if Goga proves to be a good player he is.


We'll see. Not too long ago Domas would be described as a natural 4 in the NBA. What was old is new again.

Btw, if you think the Pacers have a big man logjam, what do you think of the Sixers paying Embiid, Horford, and Harris massive amounts of money each? That's 2 centers and a PF by my reckoning.
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Re: With 18th Pick, Pacers Select Goga Bitadze 

Post#112 » by reflex35 » Sat Jul 13, 2019 11:56 am

winter_mute_13 wrote:
reflex35 wrote:Myles is under a contract. Right now Pacers can't offer Domas the same contract as they did to Myles as they will be in luxury tax territory. And if you're fair Domas and Myles contracts should be more or less the same.


Not true at all. Pacers can give Domas a max contract and not be in luxury tax.

In fact, I expect Domas to get a larger contract than Myles due to market conditions. In retrospect, Myles signed a bargain deal.

reflex35 wrote:So the writing is on a wall. Domas will be traded. They will try in the beginning of the season to put Sabonis at 4. That won't work as he is a natural 5, and Domas will probably won't be a Pacer in a year.

Especially if Goga proves to be a good player he is.


We'll see. Not too long ago Domas would be described as a natural 4 in the NBA. What was old is new again.

Btw, if you think the Pacers have a big man logjam, what do you think of the Sixers paying Embiid, Horford, and Harris massive amounts of money each? That's 2 centers and a PF by my reckoning.


We both are guessing if Domas will get a long term contract from Pacers. I think Pacers need to decide what they want to do now and either offer him around 16-20 mil a year longterm (which I think he will accept) or move him while his value is high and they can get a great return. There are rumours that they are negotiating but I personally don't see it...

Let's be real - do you really imagine his numbers going up with Dipo coming back, addition of Brogdon, and him playing out of position at 4 together with Myles?

I do agree that many in NBA described Domas as a natural 4.
But I watched him long before he went to NBA (I am Lithuanian) and he can't be a 4 in the current league.(OKC tried that and that was a disaster)
His strengths are playing near the rim, rebounding and he is a great offensive big. Yes, he as well has great passing skills and basically can be a point forward, but he can't defend good power forwards. He just can't. This is his weakness.
Therefore he is much better suited being at 5.
Myles can defend 4. He is not as good as a rebounder but he is a better rim protector than Domas.
This should be the other way around - Myles playing 4 and Domas at 5.
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Re: With 18th Pick, Pacers Select Goga Bitadze 

Post#113 » by boomershadow » Sat Jul 13, 2019 12:48 pm

winter_mute_13 wrote:
reflex35 wrote:So the writing is on a wall. Domas will be traded. They will try in the beginning of the season to put Sabonis at 4. That won't work as he is a natural 5, and Domas will probably won't be a Pacer in a year.


We'll see. Not too long ago Domas would be described as a natural 4 in the NBA. What was old is new again.


I do think he's a natural 4. We've been seeing bigger 4s in the league play a lot of 5 the last few years in this wave of small ball, but that trend might start to slide back some as bigger guys work on their playmaking, shooting, and perimeter defense. IMHO Sabonis only worked as a 5 because he was playing against backups. Against other guys who'll be play the 4 this year, like Horford, Griffin, Davis, I think Sabonis will be just fine.

Idk if he'll ever be the defensive stopper that Young was, but I don't think he's an above average defender at either position.
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Re: With 18th Pick, Pacers Select Goga Bitadze 

Post#114 » by reflex35 » Sat Jul 13, 2019 1:16 pm

boomershadow wrote:
winter_mute_13 wrote:
reflex35 wrote:So the writing is on a wall. Domas will be traded. They will try in the beginning of the season to put Sabonis at 4. That won't work as he is a natural 5, and Domas will probably won't be a Pacer in a year.


We'll see. Not too long ago Domas would be described as a natural 4 in the NBA. What was old is new again.


I do think he's a natural 4. We've been seeing bigger 4s in the league play a lot of 5 the last few years in this wave of small ball, but that trend might start to slide back some as bigger guys work on their playmaking, shooting, and perimeter defense. IMHO Sabonis only worked as a 5 because he was playing against backups. Against other guys who'll be play the 4 this year, like Horford, Griffin, Davis, I think Sabonis will be just fine.

Idk if he'll ever be the defensive stopper that Young was, but I don't think he's an above average defender at either position.


I think our opinions are close and we just reach different conclusions based on the same facts.

As you I think Domas, can't defend elite offensive bigs - does not matter if they are 4 or 5. And as you mentioned he was playing against backups mainly so we can't really judge.

So here is the thinking:
1. What do we have now more in the NBA - elite offensive power forwards or centres? Who scares anybody except of Embid at 5 as all other elite offensive guys are 4s?
2. If we agree that there are a lot better 4s than 5s and if we agree that Sabas strength is not defence but offence why then we cannot agree that he should be at 5 and not at 4? As Myles is a better defender and he can defend those elite power forwards better?
3. The same goes for offence? Who is better at close range: Myles or Domas? Domas is better and there is no question about that and Myles even likes to play a bit further from the rim on offence. In that case again - Domas should be playing 5.

All in all Pacers can try Domas and Myles together. The only thing is that Domas should be a center and Myles a power forward - both offensively and defensively.
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Re: With 18th Pick, Pacers Select Goga Bitadze 

Post#115 » by Scoot McGroot » Sat Jul 13, 2019 2:39 pm

reflex35 wrote:
boomershadow wrote:
winter_mute_13 wrote:

We'll see. Not too long ago Domas would be described as a natural 4 in the NBA. What was old is new again.


I do think he's a natural 4. We've been seeing bigger 4s in the league play a lot of 5 the last few years in this wave of small ball, but that trend might start to slide back some as bigger guys work on their playmaking, shooting, and perimeter defense. IMHO Sabonis only worked as a 5 because he was playing against backups. Against other guys who'll be play the 4 this year, like Horford, Griffin, Davis, I think Sabonis will be just fine.

Idk if he'll ever be the defensive stopper that Young was, but I don't think he's an above average defender at either position.


I think our opinions are close and we just reach different conclusions based on the same facts.

As you I think Domas, can't defend elite offensive bigs - does not matter if they are 4 or 5. And as you mentioned he was playing against backups mainly so we can't really judge.

So here is the thinking:
1. What do we have now more in the NBA - elite offensive power forwards or centres? Who scares anybody except of Embid at 5 as all other elite offensive guys are 4s?
2. If we agree that there are a lot better 4s than 5s and if we agree that Sabas strength is not defence but offence why then we cannot agree that he should be at 5 and not at 4? As Myles is a better defender and he can defend those elite power forwards better?
3. The same goes for offence? Who is better at close range: Myles or Domas? Domas is better and there is no question about that and Myles even likes to play a bit further from the rim on offence. In that case again - Domas should be playing 5.

All in all Pacers can try Domas and Myles together. The only thing is that Domas should be a center and Myles a power forward - both offensively and defensively.



I think we should probably all hold off on labels of who should be the 4 and who should be the 5, and that we should really be looking at more of a hybrid system where the 4/5 spots are merged and shared and really both hybrid positions. I think that if they succeed together it will require a bit of gameplanning fresh each night based on the matchups and specifics of other teams. We’ll see cross matches and switches. There will be bigs where Dom can be hidden defensively on and bigs where Myles will have to be sliding with on the perimeter.

But if we’re rigid, it will fail. The good thing is, fiscally, we’re not in a rush. We’re in that magical spot where most of our contracts are multiple years, so even if we dealt Dom, we’d not have any realistic or usable salary cap space. But, we’re also safe, where if extend Dom, we’re still safe from he luxury tax, and could likely still even use the MLE and maybe even the bae to fill out the two last roster spots we’d have.
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Re: With 18th Pick, Pacers Select Goga Bitadze 

Post#116 » by Wizop » Sat Jul 13, 2019 3:24 pm

does positionless ball only apply to guards and small forwards?

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Re: With 18th Pick, Pacers Select Goga Bitadze 

Post#117 » by reflex35 » Sat Jul 13, 2019 3:25 pm

Scoot McGroot wrote:
reflex35 wrote:
boomershadow wrote:
I do think he's a natural 4. We've been seeing bigger 4s in the league play a lot of 5 the last few years in this wave of small ball, but that trend might start to slide back some as bigger guys work on their playmaking, shooting, and perimeter defense. IMHO Sabonis only worked as a 5 because he was playing against backups. Against other guys who'll be play the 4 this year, like Horford, Griffin, Davis, I think Sabonis will be just fine.

Idk if he'll ever be the defensive stopper that Young was, but I don't think he's an above average defender at either position.


I think our opinions are close and we just reach different conclusions based on the same facts.

As you I think Domas, can't defend elite offensive bigs - does not matter if they are 4 or 5. And as you mentioned he was playing against backups mainly so we can't really judge.

So here is the thinking:
1. What do we have now more in the NBA - elite offensive power forwards or centres? Who scares anybody except of Embid at 5 as all other elite offensive guys are 4s?
2. If we agree that there are a lot better 4s than 5s and if we agree that Sabas strength is not defence but offence why then we cannot agree that he should be at 5 and not at 4? As Myles is a better defender and he can defend those elite power forwards better?
3. The same goes for offence? Who is better at close range: Myles or Domas? Domas is better and there is no question about that and Myles even likes to play a bit further from the rim on offence. In that case again - Domas should be playing 5.

All in all Pacers can try Domas and Myles together. The only thing is that Domas should be a center and Myles a power forward - both offensively and defensively.



I think we should probably all hold off on labels of who should be the 4 and who should be the 5, and that we should really be looking at more of a hybrid system where the 4/5 spots are merged and shared and really both hybrid positions. I think that if they succeed together it will require a bit of gameplanning fresh each night based on the matchups and specifics of other teams. We’ll see cross matches and switches. There will be bigs where Dom can be hidden defensively on and bigs where Myles will have to be sliding with on the perimeter.

But if we’re rigid, it will fail. The good thing is, fiscally, we’re not in a rush. We’re in that magical spot where most of our contracts are multiple years, so even if we dealt Dom, we’d not have any realistic or usable salary cap space. But, we’re also safe, where if extend Dom, we’re still safe from he luxury tax, and could likely still even use the MLE and maybe even the bae to fill out the two last roster spots we’d have.


I can definitely agree with everything what you wrote. I did not want my opinion to come out as rigid. Just felt that in the past and in those short spurts the way Domas and Myles were used was RIGID (Domas at 4 and Myles at 5) and it never worked well so I did not understand why we want to repeat it. The way you put it makes the most sense. I am still skeptical that it would work but Pacers have the option to try.
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Re: With 18th Pick, Pacers Select Goga Bitadze 

Post#118 » by Topofthekey » Sat Jul 13, 2019 4:19 pm

On offense, Domas is definitely the 5, there's really no question about that, I feel

Defensively is where it gets slightly tricky

On one hand, Domas probably defends big physical 5s better than Myles does; Domas is also the better rebounder, probably the best on the team, so you want him to be near the rim to fight for those rebounds - so when you look at it this way, Domas seems like the better choice at 5, defensively

But having Domas defend the 5 will necessarily mean Myles will be the one tasked with defending the opponent's 4, and having Myles hanging out at the perimeter with the opponent's stretch 4 just sounds like a terrible idea - you'd be wasting his shot-blocking ability; also, Myles seems to be better suited when it comes to defending the PnR - Myles can easily switch onto the opponent's guard and track him all the way to the rim for a block

So yes, offensively, Domas plays the 5, that's easy; but defensively, it's much more difficult to say
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Re: With 18th Pick, Pacers Select Goga Bitadze 

Post#119 » by Scoot McGroot » Sat Jul 13, 2019 5:42 pm

Topofthekey wrote:On offense, Domas is definitely the 5, there's really no question about that, I feel

Defensively is where it gets slightly tricky

On one hand, Domas probably defends big physical 5s better than Myles does; Domas is also the better rebounder, probably the best on the team, so you want him to be near the rim to fight for those rebounds - so when you look at it this way, Domas seems like the better choice at 5, defensively

But having Domas defend the 5 will necessarily mean Myles will be the one tasked with defending the opponent's 4, and having Myles hanging out at the perimeter with the opponent's stretch 4 just sounds like a terrible idea - you'd be wasting his shot-blocking ability; also, Myles seems to be better suited when it comes to defending the PnR - Myles can easily switch onto the opponent's guard and track him all the way to the rim for a block

So yes, offensively, Domas plays the 5, that's easy; but defensively, it's much more difficult to say


Again, I think the assigning of 4 and 5 is probably not the wisest right now. Many 4's are stretches, and many 5's now are stretches. Assigning one as the 4 and the other as the 5 puts us in a tough situation where sometimes you're (the royal "you", not you in particular Topofthekey) saying that Dom must guard the stretch and Myles must guard the interior simply because of 4 vs 5.

Again, positionless. Sabonis is definitely more of a pivot offensively and Myles is more of a stretch offensively. Myles, so far, has proven to have more ability to defend the perimeter as a big, while Sabonis hasn't shown that ability yet.

We're planning on playing a system with no true PG (as espoused by Kelly Krauskopf, Assistant GM during a summer league broadcast), but dependent upon 3 wings all with some ball handling ability in Brogdon, Lamb, and Oladipo. I think we're going to see flexibility and positionless play amongst the 4/5 spots too. In theory, Goga is a 5, and Leaf is a 4. But Goga likely has more court stretching ability than Leaf does. Does that mean that Goga is the 4 and Leaf is the 5?

Let's maybe describe it differently. Wings, bigs, and ball handler?
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Re: With 18th Pick, Pacers Select Goga Bitadze 

Post#120 » by reflex35 » Sat Jul 13, 2019 6:17 pm

No matter how we call them it will be interesting to watch.
Two guys - both 6'11, around 240 -250 lbs. Both are "real" bigs in a true sense as they don't have great handles, only Sabas is a good enough passer and both are not superb at creating their own shots or taking over.

There aren't many examples when it worked well with the exception of Duncan and Robinson. But that was a different era...

Most recent example is Davis and Cousins and on paper at that time they were probably equal talent wise to Twin Towers - or at least the numbers they were putting suggested that. Did not work out - they were a good team - never great.

Now we have Philly with Embid and Horford and they are better than Myles and Domas. Those 2 would probably dominate Pacers bigs in a series and everyone still have questions how it is going to end up with them as most teams play small ball.

No matter how we look, it really logically doesn't make sense and there is only a small chance that it's going to work. More talented and better bigs have tried it and failed. That is not a knock on Domas and Myles as both are good players.

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